Is the wind alive, a living organism? (speculative)

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by BBalazs

 

I am not religious in any modern sense. Also, I am having a difficult time understanding exactly what the plot is.

I would like to note here that, in chronological order, the discussion went thus: various debunkings involving the aspects of a living creature. I brought up cells, you brought up viruses. I then brought up that viruses, since they are not cellular, are DEPENDENT on cellular organisms, which implies that they rely on things that have cells because they lack their own. This is confirmed by the fact that without other cellular organisms, viruses become inactive.

Basically, it all supported my theory that in order for something to be a living creature, it must have cells and amino acids and proteins and such.

Also, I had to cool down not because of anger, but because I was taking this conversation way too seriously. Serious does not equal angry.

In any case, I very respectfully ask what the "plot" of this discussion is. Are you talking about the spiritual aspect of the wind?

edit on CSaturdaypm383833f33America/Chicago21 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

The plot is stated.
What if the wind is alive.
What does this mean to you. This could be spiritual, whatever.
If it were alive, how could it be proven.
Etc.
I think it is pretty clear.
Its a speculative discussion of what that would entale.
This is different to every one of us.
For me, i was more interested, if we pressume the wind is alive (not the counterarguement), how would you go about proving it?
Now, if you cannot pressume it to be alive, thats fine. But then maybe this thread is not for you.
I am not going back to the starting point, but if you pressume its alive, you may start thinking in terms of viruses, extermophiles, or perhaps some wave function, that obeys it wn laws, thereby possibly being more the. A natural entity. Etc.
If it is alive, it could be a number if things, most we probably cannot imagine at this time.
So maybe einstein would leave the mysterious alone, he actually had to tewrite his theory because of his beliefs,
But it is fare to say a lot of people would even speculate upon the impossible.
Its is our thing.
We have many reasons.
It opens the mind.
You imagine and make stuff up.
Its fun, to delve into fantasy if you have a foothold in reality.
Also, as i pointed out my viewpoint above to circusmaximus...
Life cannot be seperated for the inanimate. They shape each other.
And the wind is not even inanimate, it is somewhere in between inanimate and life.
So lets take the plunge.
What if?
What if we failed to realise it was real, but a very different lifeform?
Thats all.

Obviously, wind is energy. And according to my "faith" (religious science, if that makes any sense) everything is made of energy. And energy comes from God...is, in fact, God.

I can't say I'm an animist. I really can't. The problem is, it implies everything has it's OWN soul...but I believe everything shares ONE soul that has been split, or stretched, into many compartments, each sharing different aspects. Like a bunch of hard drives from one company.

It is difficult to see the soul of the wind (so cliche haha) because we haven't yet evolved beyond our external senses, which we've relied on for so long. And until we evolve beyond that...we can't prove it. We can only experience it.

Does anyone understand what I'm saying?







Note: this is the metaphysical side now, not the literal biology.

Originally posted by Starchild23
Obviously, wind is energy. And according to my "faith" (religious science, if that makes any sense) everything is made of energy. And energy comes from God...is, in fact, God.

I can't say I'm an animist. I really can't. The problem is, it implies everything has it's OWN soul...but I believe everything shares ONE soul that has been split, or stretched, into many compartments, each sharing different aspects. Like a bunch of hard drives from one company.

It is difficult to see the soul of the wind (so cliche haha) because we haven't yet evolved beyond our external senses, which we've relied on for so long. And until we evolve beyond that...we can't prove it. We can only experience it.

Does anyone understand what I'm saying?

Note: this is the metaphysical side now, not the literal biology.

No. Because no one, at least not me said anything about a soul.
I do not believe in souls.
Anyway, you have made your view clear.
Or you going to in the future belittle and destroy our speculation, which PRESupposes the wind is alive?
If you dont get this, fine. Move along. Why do you have to force your views upon everyone?
Why do you feel the need to do this?
No one here is denying science.
You are being a self appointed inquisitor, that no one asked for and who totally misses the point of the whole conversation.
Seriously, dont you have any friends?
Do you not goof around or ponder impossibilities?
Do you not wish to understand at least why some cultures considered the wind living, in nothing else?
Just relax, and read, nit judge.
We are all in control of our mental faculties.
We (i) see now juxtaposition in accepting science and pondering the possibility the wind is alive.
If you cNnot understand this fine, although you are missing something i feel, but i will not force myself upon you.
You live your life, and i/we will ponder the impossibilty.
Telling us what we can do, is just plain wrong. It is akin the preaching and converting by force.
But if you must have an example to ponder an impossibility, ponder this:
How did life start out of nothing (big bang, creation- makes no difference).

should have known upon opening this thread that it would be full of shillience.
lowest form of wit established

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by korathin

 

Are you calling my personality a lie? That is the only way it makes sense. I left out the speculative part because I have no interest in speculation, only in answering the question.

However, I am trying to return this to a civilized conversation, now that I have cooled a bit. I have a question for you.

Are you sure you meant organism, or did you mean like spirit, as in conscious energy?

I mean a "non carbon or element* as we know it based organism". Imagine an organism the size/dimensions of a particle/smaller than a bacteria that is composed more so as a wave or maybe even a lighter then air element, as carbon based life forms can exist.

Because we are really carbon based life forms, and are biased by it as we have few examples of non carbon based life forms at our disposal to examine.

Granted if it isn't composed of matter, it would be hard for some to call it life. More like a self repeating pattern in the wind.

Hey maybe that is where computer virus's come from? lol jking

But in all seriousness, such a wave or vibration based organism might be more so similar to a computer virus then a carbon based life form.

We know that carbon based bacteria and I believe virus's(not sure) can and do thrive in the air. And in that sense the wind does carry biological organisms that we do know about. But none of those actually use the energy in wind to survive(well aside as a way to spread). And everywhere there is energy, there is also life feeding off of it.

A very original, interesting idea! I've thought the wind is extremely weird in the past, but not to the point of it being a living organism.
But who are we to say that it isn't! After all, we know virtually nothing about life: what makes it so, what consciousness is, what life would be if it wasn't carbon based, etc.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, very interesting.

Ben.

This is the problem I'm having here. You keep saying organism...that provokes the assumption that its structure is similar material-wise to bacteria, virus, etc. But if that were the case, we would have found it already.

With that said, it would be best to assume its structure is something very different from what we've seen before...in essence, not an organism, precisely.

Maybe an Autobot?

Originally posted by BBalazs

Originally posted by Starchild23
Obviously, wind is energy. And according to my "faith" (religious science, if that makes any sense) everything is made of energy. And energy comes from God...is, in fact, God.

I can't say I'm an animist. I really can't. The problem is, it implies everything has it's OWN soul...but I believe everything shares ONE soul that has been split, or stretched, into many compartments, each sharing different aspects. Like a bunch of hard drives from one company.

It is difficult to see the soul of the wind (so cliche haha) because we haven't yet evolved beyond our external senses, which we've relied on for so long. And until we evolve beyond that...we can't prove it. We can only experience it.

Does anyone understand what I'm saying?

Note: this is the metaphysical side now, not the literal biology.

No. Because no one, at least not me said anything about a soul.
I do not believe in souls.
Anyway, you have made your view clear.
Or you going to in the future belittle and destroy our speculation, which PRESupposes the wind is alive?
If you dont get this, fine. Move along. Why do you have to force your views upon everyone?
Why do you feel the need to do this?
No one here is denying science.
You are being a self appointed inquisitor, that no one asked for and who totally misses the point of the whole conversation.
Seriously, dont you have any friends?
Do you not goof around or ponder impossibilities?
Do you not wish to understand at least why some cultures considered the wind living, in nothing else?
Just relax, and read, nit judge.
We are all in control of our mental faculties.
We (i) see now juxtaposition in accepting science and pondering the possibility the wind is alive.
If you cNnot understand this fine, although you are missing something i feel, but i will not force myself upon you.
You live your life, and i/we will ponder the impossibilty.
Telling us what we can do, is just plain wrong. It is akin the preaching and converting by force.
But if you must have an example to ponder an impossibility, ponder this:
How did life start out of nothing (big bang, creation- makes no difference).

Cease your intolerable rudeness at once, sir. I was absolutely polite when I posted that, but you have to accuse me of all sorts of things now. If, when I post very politely, you cannot respond as politely, then I suggest you shut up.

I was very nice. Anyone here will agree that what I posted, as quoted in this post, was not confrontational in the least. Get over yourself.

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by korathin

 

Are you calling my personality a lie? That is the only way it makes sense. I left out the speculative part because I have no interest in speculation, only in answering the question.

However, I am trying to return this to a civilized conversation, now that I have cooled a bit. I have a question for you.

Are you sure you meant organism, or did you mean like spirit, as in conscious energy?

I mean a "non carbon or element* as we know it based organism". Imagine an organism the size/dimensions of a particle/smaller than a bacteria that is composed more so as a wave or maybe even a lighter then air element, as carbon based life forms can exist.

Because we are really carbon based life forms, and are biased by it as we have few examples of non carbon based life forms at our disposal to examine.

Granted if it isn't composed of matter, it would be hard for some to call it life. More like a self repeating pattern in the wind.

Hey maybe that is where computer virus's come from? lol jking

But in all seriousness, such a wave or vibration based organism might be more so similar to a computer virus then a carbon based life form.

We know that carbon based bacteria and I believe virus's(not sure) can and do thrive in the air. And in that sense the wind does carry biological organisms that we do know about. But none of those actually use the energy in wind to survive(well aside as a way to spread). And everywhere there is energy, there is also life feeding off of it.

edit on 21-1-2012 by korathin because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2012 by korathin because: (no reason given)

A sidenote on viruses.
Now some scientists say it is alive, some that it is half alive....
Lets look at if from a logical perspective:
As far as WE know, a virus needs a host, to live.
This begs the question. If it dead, how does it enter the host?
Is it dormant?
In this case it is still alive but dormant.
Otherwise viruses are one of the most stunning piece of "thing" out there in our world, and merit study as how they become alive.
I suspect, and mark my words: virus will be reclassified a living, but unique kingdom within the next 10 years as we learn more about them.

I think maybe the wind is an invisible spaghetti monster, slowly harvesting our energies so it can grow its noodles out to about 30 feet long. See, it is related to the giant squid, but a scientist took the giant squid and experimented on it for German warfare, resulting in an organic lifeform that resembles a great mass of spaghetti noodles oozing spaghetti sauce.

As this scientist continued to experiment, he accidentally turned his pet project invisible...and gave it the ability to stretch. Unfortunately, in its greed, it stretched itself so far out...that it became nearly intangible.

Now, it can only be felt when it gets agitated, which is nearly all the time because it is so upset over stratching itself out. It tried to hurt us, but realized it couldn't. Now, it will just sap our energies until it becomes solid enough to reclaim its position as the world's leading consumer of manflesh.

Yes, the flying spaghetti monster is real. However, due to an idiot German scientist, it become what we now call the "wind".

The wind is alive. We just can't prove it because the spaghetti monster is invisible.

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by BBalazs

Originally posted by Starchild23
Obviously, wind is energy. And according to my "faith" (religious science, if that makes any sense) everything is made of energy. And energy comes from God...is, in fact, God.

I can't say I'm an animist. I really can't. The problem is, it implies everything has it's OWN soul...but I believe everything shares ONE soul that has been split, or stretched, into many compartments, each sharing different aspects. Like a bunch of hard drives from one company.

It is difficult to see the soul of the wind (so cliche haha) because we haven't yet evolved beyond our external senses, which we've relied on for so long. And until we evolve beyond that...we can't prove it. We can only experience it.

Does anyone understand what I'm saying?

Note: this is the metaphysical side now, not the literal biology.

No. Because no one, at least not me said anything about a soul.
I do not believe in souls.
Anyway, you have made your view clear.
Or you going to in the future belittle and destroy our speculation, which PRESupposes the wind is alive?
If you dont get this, fine. Move along. Why do you have to force your views upon everyone?
Why do you feel the need to do this?
No one here is denying science.
You are being a self appointed inquisitor, that no one asked for and who totally misses the point of the whole conversation.
Seriously, dont you have any friends?
Do you not goof around or ponder impossibilities?
Do you not wish to understand at least why some cultures considered the wind living, in nothing else?
Just relax, and read, nit judge.
We are all in control of our mental faculties.
We (i) see now juxtaposition in accepting science and pondering the possibility the wind is alive.
If you cNnot understand this fine, although you are missing something i feel, but i will not force myself upon you.
You live your life, and i/we will ponder the impossibilty.
Telling us what we can do, is just plain wrong. It is akin the preaching and converting by force.
But if you must have an example to ponder an impossibility, ponder this:
How did life start out of nothing (big bang, creation- makes no difference).

Cease your intolerable rudeness at once, sir. I was absolutely polite when I posted that, but you have to accuse me of all sorts of things now. If, when I post very politely, you cannot respond as politely, then I suggest you shut up.

I was very nice. Anyone here will agree that what I posted, as quoted in this post, was not confrontational in the least. Get over yourself.

What are you talking about?
Can anyone else point out where i was confrontational?
I jsut dont get it.
We apperently live in a different universe.
I was being very nice, i feel.

Originally posted by Starchild23
I think maybe the wind is an invisible spaghetti monster, slowly harvesting our energies so it can grow its noodles out to about 30 feet long. See, it is related to the giant squid, but a scientist took the giant squid and experimented on it for German warfare, resulting in an organic lifeform that resembles a great mass of spaghetti noodles oozing spaghetti sauce.

As this scientist continued to experiment, he accidentally turned his pet project invisible...and gave it the ability to stretch. Unfortunately, in its greed, it stretched itself so far out...that it became nearly intangible.

Now, it can only be felt when it gets agitated, which is nearly all the time because it is so upset over stratching itself out. It tried to hurt us, but realized it couldn't. Now, it will just sap our energies until it becomes solid enough to reclaim its position as the world's leading consumer of manflesh.

Yes, the flying spaghetti monster is real. However, due to an idiot German scientist, it become what we now call the "wind".

The wind is alive. We just can't prove it because the spaghetti monster is invisible.

This so clearly demostrates a non understanding of the topic.
Kindergarten.
I propose you are the spagethi monster yourself.
Why are you here?
Why?
Why?
Why?

Not alive. Wind is a product of thermodynamic imbalances. Wind is something felt when homeostasis is occurring.

Originally posted by Starchild23
I think maybe the wind is an invisible spaghetti monster, slowly harvesting our energies so it can grow its noodles out to about 30 feet long. See, it is related to the giant squid, but a scientist took the giant squid and experimented on it for German warfare, resulting in an organic lifeform that resembles a great mass of spaghetti noodles oozing spaghetti sauce.

As this scientist continued to experiment, he accidentally turned his pet project invisible...and gave it the ability to stretch. Unfortunately, in its greed, it stretched itself so far out...that it became nearly intangible.

Now, it can only be felt when it gets agitated, which is nearly all the time because it is so upset over stratching itself out. It tried to hurt us, but realized it couldn't. Now, it will just sap our energies until it becomes solid enough to reclaim its position as the world's leading consumer of manflesh.

Yes, the flying spaghetti monster is real. However, due to an idiot German scientist, it become what we now call the "wind".

The wind is alive. We just can't prove it because the spaghetti monster is invisible.

You give hippies and stoners a bad name.

reply to post by nineix


>You may as well say that water is alive. or dirt.

Water IS alive.

reply to post by golemina


No. The stuff IN the water is alive...but water is not.

Originally posted by MaxJohnson

Originally posted by Starchild23
I think maybe the wind is an invisible spaghetti monster, slowly harvesting our energies so it can grow its noodles out to about 30 feet long. See, it is related to the giant squid, but a scientist took the giant squid and experimented on it for German warfare, resulting in an organic lifeform that resembles a great mass of spaghetti noodles oozing spaghetti sauce.

As this scientist continued to experiment, he accidentally turned his pet project invisible...and gave it the ability to stretch. Unfortunately, in its greed, it stretched itself so far out...that it became nearly intangible.

Now, it can only be felt when it gets agitated, which is nearly all the time because it is so upset over stratching itself out. It tried to hurt us, but realized it couldn't. Now, it will just sap our energies until it becomes solid enough to reclaim its position as the world's leading consumer of manflesh.

Yes, the flying spaghetti monster is real. However, due to an idiot German scientist, it become what we now call the "wind".

The wind is alive. We just can't prove it because the spaghetti monster is invisible.

You give hippies and stoners a bad name.

I thought this was for speculation only...which means we can have fun and delve into our imaginations...that's what OP said, right?

reply to post by BBalazs

Air: Air is the name given to atmosphere used in breathing and photosynthesis
Wind: Wind is the flow of gases on a large scale. On Earth, wind consists of the bulk movement of air.
Excellent.
Now, where does this disporove the possibillity that wind is a living organism, that moves the air?

It does not, neither does it disprove the possibility that it is not. So far all you have done is to contradict the valid scientific reasoning you have been presented with and failed to present any reasons to support your own theories.

At best wind is the "flow" of gases (meaning we have no idea),

Please explain why that statement means 'we' have no idea?

as no model replicates it percectly or eve. Close to perfectly, otherwise we would know when tornadoes etc happen, and could predict.

Since what we are talking about is modelling the total wind flow for the planet it is hardly surprising that models are not perfect, however I would take issue with you that the models are not even close to perfectly.

Anyway what drives the flow (the air)?
Atmospheric pressure?
Ok, so wind is atmopsheric pressure.

No it is not. It is the resultant flow of 'gas' due to a differential in atmospheric pressure. That is not the same thing.

What drives that?
No idea, right?
Well it could be solar flares.

In deed it could be solar flares, or at least insolation but I hardly think you can say that science has no idea on what causes changes in atmospheric pressure.

It could also be that we should examine if the wind is alive, as we have never done that.
I am propsing a new way, a new direction of inquiry.
Most of you are just propsing a circular arguement, that doesnt even disclude that it is alive.
It makes no difference scientifically if the wind is alive.

No you are not actually proposing anything as you are offering no arguments that can be tested to prove or disprove your hypothesis. You are flying in the face of science, which does not cause me a problem, but you are failing to make any move to substantiate your claims.

If you wish to propose a new theory that does not consist of trashing accepted theories without some form of reasoning.