What the UK does not want Scotland to know about independance

reply to post by Vitchilo

Yeah... it's all Cameron making it up...

UK's debt? 950% of GDP

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

How many times has that been debunked here on ATS? - by people far more financially aware and astute than me I hasten to add - I barely understand the basics of it all.

Yet still you insist on repeating it until someone like stumason comes along and blows it all apart yet again.

Come on Vitch, I know you hate us English but I thought you were a bit better than that.

reply to post by bigyin


reply to post by bigyin


Brown didnt loosen the reins on the banks. All banks were subject to the same rigorous legislation. Some could self govern well - others could not.

Barclays, RBS, HBOS and HSBC were subject to the same regulations, operating structures and were mirror images of each other in terms of products and most lending criteria.

The overriding difference was culture - culture is down to the people employed at all levels.

Barclays was largely self-regulating and had an open culture where compliance was key. RBS did not. It had a blame culture where bad deals and poor management was covered up.

Unfortunately barclays has taken most of RBS' exiles into its upper echelons...so would be the next one to watch for me.

The failure of RBS and HBOS has nothing to do with Brown - it's to do with the cultures of both organisations...who funnily enough were very fiercely Scottish.

Both made a point of having their HQs up north rather than the City.

Wonder if there's a common theme?

You mention Scottish Widows and Standard Life...very different animals to the wholesale, commercial and retail banks (RBS, Barclays and HSBC, etc)...fund managers and pension funds have different balance sheet pressures than Wsale, comm and retail banks...

They're all financial institutions, but they're not all 'banks' in the traditional sense of the word.

reply to post by bigyin

It was the UK Labour government through Chancellor Darling who decided to bail out RBS. The UK Government now owns most of the bank. An independent Scotland wouldn't waste money buying it back off them. The UK government were stupid to bail it out in the first place but it was their decision to throw money at a failed private company. Mind you it was them that let things get so bad in the first place.

Well, can't disagree with you there.
I'd let all of those bankers sink in the mess they made.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter who was in power, Osbourne would have done the same as Darling, they all would, because they are all under the control of those faceless people who control the banking system and everything associated with it.

And they are the real enemy my friend.

reply to post by RockLobster

You are clearly in denial , read your post again and see if your wee brain can spot the blatant mistake you`ve just made.

My wee brain just can't cope - you'll have to spell it out for me. I'm all ears...sorry...eyes.

I am all for independence.It will take time and will be hard to begin with but we have an infrastructure and enough natural resources to sustain a growing population,i certainly dont see it as a scottish/england divide.
The fact is many English people see Scotland as a sponger yet we give more financially than we get back.
Its about time we spread our wings and fly.

Originally posted by SupersonicSerpent
England has a huge oil stash on the Falklands 60 billion barrels worth.

Shhh don't tell everybody. One small bomb could set that off. Opps....

Scotland leaving GB is just a stupid, just like Alex Salmond. Another pipe dream of wanting independance just for the sake of being independant from the GB? Where is this GDP going come from? Mass production on Iron Brew? The economic of it all is just laughable.

I say sod it, let England give them there independance if they are willing to follow such and idot as Alex Salmond
and see how long it takes for them to come crawling back when it all goes down the pan or maybe they will get invaded by another country, what are they gonig use as defense? Empty Iron Brew can? Again stupid idea by a stupid man.

Every heard the phrase "United we stand, divided we fall"? Instead of trying to become independant for the soul purpose of saying, hey look at us, aint we clever. Maybe put you efforts into bringing together mutual goals and working on them.



OH P.S im not English

If Scotland become and independent country and they become successful as you predict, then would it be fair to say that there would be more opportunity in Scotland, which would result in more migration to your country by all types of people, which would eventually mean that you would require more money, which would probably be sought through new taxes/loans?

I suppose the point im trying to make is, wouldn't you just end up as politically corrupt as everywhere else? The politicians of Scottish parliament can probably smell the gravy train that is independence. You'd have a decade of wonderful prosperity and then SHTF and everyone would start to say how much of a bad idea it was?

Im not saying this is set in stone - Of course not. I just feel that people are greedy no matter what their nationality or how much they love their country.

Would love yo hear your thoughts on my theory.

reply to post by starchild10

If Scotland became independent it would be comparable to other small, primarily rural countries such as Ireland, Iceland and Norway

Please tell me how well the Irish and Icelandic economies are doing.. Iceland debt was so big they have tried to dodge it and Ireland is ruined by the recession. Really you have your head in the clouds if you think that Scotland subsidies England. What had Scotland got.. A few decades of oil pocket money left, sheep, whisky and spring water... The whole of the UK lives off the back of London. The biggest financial centre in the world.

I am not against Scottish Independence. I am half Welsh and Irish by decent. Born in England and living in Scotland. I really do no think it will do Scotland any favours though.. I think any people that what independence should be given it..

If you are granted independence get the 'Stone Of Destiny' back from the English before you seal the deal....then of course you can return it to the Irish. Thanks!

reply to post by seabhac-rua

If you are granted independence get the 'Stone Of Destiny' back from the English before you seal the deal....then of course you can return it to the Irish. Thanks!

Err, it's been in Edinburgh Castle since 1996 and will only return to Wesminster Abbey for coronations.

And it was allegedly taken to Scotland by Irish colonists.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Sorry forgot to point out - it's not up to the UK to grant anything - it's Scotland's choice and no one elses.

reply to post by Freeborn



The legend goes it was loaned by the Irish to the Scots to crown their king, but while they had it in their possession the Scots lost the stone to the English as spoils of war. The Irish never got it back.

I never actually heard it was given back in 97(the 90's are a bit blurry it you're me), but that stone was said to have been a copy anyways, where the real Lia Fail is? Who knows?

Nice thread OP

EvanB
Tbh with all of the anti english statements from the jocks on these boards then quite frankly we too should have a referendum of whether we want you in the UK.. I gurantee that vote wouldbe a big f-off to the whiney old jocks for sure!

This ^^^^^ is one reason i will be voting Yes on September the 18th...Thanks.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Why?

There is an element of truth in what he has said.

Its seems perfectly ok for Scots to rip the piss out of English people, ridicule and belittle them at every opportunity yet whenever English people retort in like or display similar attitudes it is hypocritically deemed an example of English arrogance.

felixjames20

and see how long it takes for them to come crawling back when it all goes down the pan or maybe they will get invaded by another country, what are they gonig use as defense? Empty Iron Brew can? Again stupid idea by a stupid man.

Reason # 2^^^^
Name one country who have gained their Independence from The Empire that have "Crawled Back"..??

As for Defense, we would only need a Border Force because we wont ever be dragged into Illegal Genocidal Wars on a lie for profit. If Westminster want to go to war then in can send England's sons to die for the Mighty Pound...Leave us Scots out of it.

Some people just dont get it. We want independence not just because Maggie and Co destroyed our coal mining our ship building our Steel works,
Not just because Maggie and Co used Scotland as a testing ground for the Poll Tax a full year before her and her like introduced it in Egland and Wales..Northern Ireland never even had to pay the bloody thing....Lets just say Thatcher Shat it on that one...

Not just because for the Past thirty years successive Governments Buried the McCrone Report on Scotland's true Wealth given Independence...

It Runs deeper than that.

Ps. The only Reason we became a Union in the first place is because the Lords and Land owners stuck all their eggs in one Baskets in the Failed Darien Scheme...The People of Scotland were never consulted and if they were i'm pretty sure we would have told Westminster and the Rich Lords to Get Tae F#.

reply to post by Soloprotocol

....... we wont ever be dragged into Illegal Genocidal Wars on a lie for profit. If Westminster want to go to war then in can send England's sons to die for the Mighty Pound...Leave us Scots out of it.

Quite ironic considering it was a Scotsman who deliberately lied to Westminster and led the UK into an illegal war...a war which had casualties from all parts of the UK and not just Scotsmen.
(And you're comment on the pound is quite ironic considering Salmond's desperation to keep it - some independence that would be, reliant on another nations currency over which you had no say and no control over).

Scotland will vote as Scotland see's fit, as is only right.
But don't base that vote on misguided and uninformed notions of romanticism or the blatant lies, half-truths and propaganda that have been peddled by Salmond and the SNP.

With all due respect, you seem to be of the belief that a new independent Scotland is going to be some idyllic state which abounds in milk and honey and personal freedoms and privileges free from the corruption and evils of the rest of the world.
I suspect the reality will be something quite the opposite.

If Scotland would be heavily subsidizing the UK, why was Scotland so intent on keeping the British pound?

Sorry mate, not buying it. North Sea Oil is not a "Scottish" product, most of it is in international waters, developed by BRITISH oil companies, and will remain in the hands of the UK Government, as much as Scotland likes to claim that they have sole rights over North Sea oil.

Scottish companies would need to spend billions to develop the oil fields the way British companies have.

Freeborn
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Yeah... it's all Cameron making it up...

UK's debt? 950% of GDP

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

How many times has that been debunked here on ATS? - by people far more financially aware and astute than me I hasten to add - I barely understand the basics of it all.

Yet still you insist on repeating it until someone like stumason comes along and blows it all apart yet again.

Come on Vitch, I know you hate us English but I thought you were a bit better than that.

I seemed to have missed this thread first time around, but yes, I am sure I have ripped that 950% GDP/Debt ratio thing to bits in another thread. UK debt, as in debt held by the Government, is around 85%, which is actually quite low when compared to other developed countries. For comparison, Japan has GDP to debt ratio of around 130% and has done for years, yet they have no issue with it. The 950% figure is only touted around on the internet by "questionable" websites, such as God Like Productions and is itself a highly distorted take on a report done by Morgan Stanley which used, amongst other things, mortgage liabilities and private, unsecured debt.

On the note of the private, unsecured debt which is around £1.5 Trillion - if everyone who owed money was unable to pay, this would be more of a concern to those who are owed the money than those who actually owe it. It is called "unsecured" for a reason.

I've done some maths, but no matter how hard I try, I cannot get anywhere close to the 950% GDP, which would be a figure in the region of £2300 Trillion - which is in common parlance £2.3 Quadrillion. There isn't that much money in the whole world - the global GDP is only around £80 Trillion.

So, in a nutshell, Vitch is talking bollocks, but then we knew that

As for the OP, I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been done to death. I honestly don't believe the Scots will vote for Independence as the polls suggest no change to the 70/30 split.

The Krankies have been blustering lately since all the major parties torpedoed the "Keep the Pound Plan" - but that is all it is, bluster. Salmond promised a detailed rebuttal of the Westminster position today in a speech, but that was just a load of hot air, rhetoric and trying to stir up the old "English Bastards" routine which, thankfully, most seem to see right through.

None of what the SNP propose has been thought out at all and seems predicated on Scotland being the new Kuwait. The simple figures don't lie - at no point whatsoever has the Oil revenue from the North sea (and this is ALL Rigs, not just "Scottish ones" as there are good deal in "English" waters) has ever exceeded the block payment that is sent to the Scottish Government from HM Treasury.

In order for Scotland just to continue as it is, much less do anything on it's own (Defence, Foreign Affairs, trade etc) they'd have to increase taxes to an unsustainable level and they'd just see people flee south of the border, claim "non-domicile" status in Scotland and they'd lose more.