Camping stoves and heat/light packs - Bug Out Bag Stuff

Originally posted by saltdog
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

hey we have an idea, a plan and a way to get it done...there are several ways to get a job completed...they all have the same result, than they are all right.
I know most SHTF are local or regional...but the ones that I am prepping for are global..the rest to me are just life.
What I mean, is if you live on the coast, hurricanes are expected, in the midwest its tornado's and flooding, west coast is earthquakes...its a part of life in the region that your in.
I see a SHTF like an economic colapse or even a nuclear strike on US soil as a very possible SHTF.
Short of that or say martial law..which will have all kinds of mass caos...its just the life we live....you emprovise, adapt, and overcome.

What about the big ones?

Solar flare. There was one a couple years ago that they say if it was directed right at us, would have done some serious damage. How serious who knows. Extinction level event? It might be possible. Blow that magnetosphere back like a hurricane, and fry everything on the sun facing side of the earth maybe.

Asteroid? There have been some big ones come between the moon and the earth, thats pretty close.
One good sized one bounced off the upper atmosphere a while back. Maybe 19 years ago or something.

Major anti-biotic fail. Mutated strains of drug resistant bacteria, spread on the wind and look out Charlie here it comes, and nothing can stop it, its in the food, the air, and in the buses, the churches, everywhere people gather, they are dying in droves in hospitals, go to work, and you might get it, don't go to work, and you won't eat. Whachagonnado?

Zombification. Most people laugh at the thought that that could ever happen. I mean what are the odds, that something as strange as that could happen to this world? As odd as a gunman shooting up a military base in Texas? As odd as a gunman in Norway? The way I see it, if that can happen, who knows.
Did you read about that guy in Norway? He said he accomplished his mission so he gave himself up to police.
Isn't that similar to what they all say? Someone told them to do it? They put zombies in orange jumpsuits don't they?

Total collapse of the food chain. GMO products end up showing long term effects and people revolt against the system. Suddenly new allergies are everywhere and it seems everything you eat makes you sick.
The whole food industry goes into chaos, rationing starts, governments melt down, martial law, economic collapse.

Major meltdown of nuclear reactor China syndrome, city the size of Tokyo has to be evacuated thats 30 million people.

Who knows what might happen. Scientists taking ice core samples in Antarctica, suddenly begin to get sick. They are transferred to hospital and the hospital workers get sick, Suddenly they find out the germ whatever it is, has reached a major city. And we have no immunity to it. It spreads as fast as a common cold.
If you so much as see a person coughing, chances are you are in a contaminated zone. If you look around you at that point, everyone you see, will contract it within 12 hours. Colds are that contagious, and can span the globe in 12 hours.
Any city with an international airport is affected. Airports are forced to shut down but its too late.
It lives on surfaces for 3 days even in cold weather. Go to work? But you have to eat.
Other people are going to work. The TV says they think they have it under control.
The world can't stay home from work. Yet you go to work, and almost everyone is off sick.
But you went in anyway didn't you. Because the TV said everything would be alright and you are broke and you need the money. It takes 10 days for people to die from it, and before 10 days are up, 70 percent of the world's population has it. Only some rural areas do not have it yet, but as the people panic and head to rural areas, they get it too. Like small pox to Indians, they all fall down.

Originally posted by TheQuantumAnomaly
This may have been mentioned, but so far the lightest stove i've come across is actually the penny stove, and you can build one yourself for only a couple bucks. The quick version is the bottoms of two soda cans wedged inside eachother with some holes in the top. Add everclear or methyl alcohol and light.

You can find plans online (instructables and elsewhere) but i recommend the following suggestion if you make one. USE A FILLER MATERIAL. Stuff it with fiberglass (in the US its guaranteed additive free, i've heard issues with lead or other chemicals elsewhere). Otherwise your stove can shoot its top off, or in worst case explode. (i'm speaking from experience here)

Personally, I made mine from redbull cans. a tablespoon of everclear burns about 30 minutes. Not made for heating the house, but for weight concerns, its the lightest you'll get (can be as light as a couple of grams if you make it small) and if you use everclear as your fuel source, then you also have a disinfectant on hand that can be bartered for a pretty penny, allowing you to save space on first aid and bartering goods.

As a bonus, instead of sternos, i make long-lasting burners by rolling up a 1/2 inch thich stip of cardboard in to a coil, stuffing it in a used tuna can, and filling it with leftover wax from candles that didnt burn properly. Leave some cardboard to act as a wick at the top and zing! They last forever in the corner of the storeage room.

Recycle.

Hey I found a great website that explains how and why alchohol stoves like that one works.
Here is the link How Backpacking Stoves Work

Also on that same site are candle powered lanterns and candle powered stoves.
Cool stuff to know.
People are worried that candles might not be safe in a tent, even in a metal container, but they forget that the Chinese have been making paper lanterns since 250 BC. WIth candles in them.

I have seen and used a vast number of cooking apparatus over the years. The one appliance that stands out(through not really a cooker) is the Kelly kettle. It will burn just about anything and used as a heating appliance after your brew it's fantastic. Another form of cooking appliance is the Benghazi burner, it consists of a large round food tin with holes punched into it half way up and around the top. You then fill the tin about a third full of sand then add a small amount (large capful) of petrol or diesel, a quick stir then light it. It will burn for a very long time for the amount of fuel used. Light wise I would lean towards a Tilly lamp or similar as they can burn various fuels and give an amazing amoun of light and heat.

Www.kellykettle.com/

Originally posted by WickettheRabbit
A few thoughts.

- Vaseline on cotton balls is better than Chapstick because the Vaseline works well in many situations that lip balm won't just because it's more spreadable

- I have the Brunton Optimus Crux. I haven't field tested it yet, but I did read that it was very efficient and hot compared to other similar stoves, hence my purchase.

- I am very intrigued by the rocket stoves. I am bad at fabrication, so I'll be saving pennies to get one of those.

- Due to this thread, I finally bought a candle lantern. Thanks for the inspiration.

- Also due to this thread, I'll be buying a mini-torch type lighter and making a light and heat bag.

Thanks!

Hey you're welcome. I never heard of candle lanterns until someone told me and now I am really glad they did too.
As I just posted above, check that zen of camping stoves link, there is some great information in there about stoves and lighting, that you can make yourself if you need to. Since people were doing that before Thomas Edison and they did come up with a lot of ideas. Some of it is a bit zany, when you read the stuff about Eskimos, for instance. How resourceful were they?

Here is another tidbit I read. Did you know, that the unit of measure called one lumen, is from taking oil from a sperm whales head, and making a one pound wax candle? The light from that candle, is equal to one lumen.
It also confirms something we probably already knew, beeswax candles are better for you than paraffin wax candles.
But the information on how those Trangia stoves work is quite interesting.
The inner area is lit, which causes the alcohol to boil, which then is forced up the side chambers, by boiling pressure, the vapor gas from the alcohol, is then pressurized because the holes around the top are small, and create turbulence, which causes back pressure, it then vents out the small holes around the top, and ignites under pressure.

And also in that link is the information as to where the hottest part of a flame is. The very tip.
If it licks the pot, and disperses, that can result in the better mixing of oxygen from the air, with the fuel, and hence enlarge the hot zone of the flame.
Lots of good info in that link.

Originally posted by da pickles
I have seen and used a vast number of cooking apparatus over the years. The one appliance that stands out(through not really a cooker) is the Kelly kettle. It will burn just about anything and used as a heating appliance after your brew it's fantastic. Another form of cooking appliance is the Benghazi burner, it consists of a large round food tin with holes punched into it half way up and around the top. You then fill the tin about a third full of sand then add a small amount (large capful) of petrol or diesel, a quick stir then light it. It will burn for a very long time for the amount of fuel used. Light wise I would lean towards a Tilly lamp or similar as they can burn various fuels and give an amazing amoun of light and heat.

Www.kellykettle.com/

Thats pretty cool stuff that Kelly Kettle. You know I was wondering if anyone has made a container that is like a thermos, but has a single thickness bottom. You boil the water, and maybe add a bottom piece that has who knows what type of insulating material after you boil it, and the water stays very hot for a long time, and maybe takes a very short time to boil, since the thermos effect of the bottle sides and top captures most of the heat transferred to it by the fire under it. YOu would probably need a pressure vent top otherwise it might explode from the heat pressure.

You know lamps like the Tilley lamp, I tend to avoid. I find the fumes are irritating. I have bought and used a lot of coleman lanterns as well, and those little pouches, whatever they are called that cause the light, the mantle I guess it is, they were always falling apart.

Even in doors I used to use those perfumed oil lamps but again, like some candles, they seem fumy.

When you stop to consider that a beeswax candle in a candle lantern will last 9 hours, to me thats a better option. And you can get one that holds 3 candles, and it has a hot plate on top of it, that you can cook on.

The candle lantern I bought, will keep a cup of soup warm on it, and it has a detachable light on the bottom that uses two small flat batteries.

Those small flat batteries, will power that LED light, and give as much light as a coleman lantern, like the ones I used to buy. And those 2 tiny batteries will last 40 hours. I can't remember how many times I would have needed to fill up my coleman lantern to get 40 hours of light.

If I spend a buck, at the dollar store in town, I can buy a pack that has 2 of those little batteries in it.
So if I spend 5 bucks, buy 5 packs, thats 200 hours of light as bright as a coleman lantern without the fumes or fire hazard.
But you know I was talking to one of the hard core outdoorsmen at the outfitters, and he said he bought the candle lantern that didn't have the little LED light on the bottom, because he didn't want the extra weight of the batteries. Those tiny little batteries. I used to pack that coleman lantern around. Didn't everyone? And a quart of fuel.

Look at how tiny this little LED light is with those batteries...
And it comes with a strap so you can use it as a headlamp

You should see the headlamp I got from China. Doctor Kildare would have killed for one. It has 50 LED's in it.
I think its probably against the law to shine it at airplanes.

reply to post by Rocketman7


I think the problem with that would be trying to find some form of durable and heat proof insulation material to retain heat, also as it would be single skinned on the bottom,that in itself would allow a flask of 1litre to cool pretty quickly, you could devise some sort of insulated base cap to be fitted after its heated. As long as the top is not air tight as its being heated then you should after a minute or so after being removed from the heat source be able to place an airtight lid onto it. Another quick tip is if your cooking tinned produce then simply bang a big dent in the side of the can and heat it directly around a fire or heat source. When the dent pops then remove from heat,leave for a minute or so then open. The beutey of this system is that if you have to move out quickly then you place the unopened can in a pocket and take it with you

reply to post by Rocketman7


That's a seriously nifty little lamp, never seen one of them

Originally posted by saltdog
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

Take that stove outside, in the snow and about a 20MPH wind, see if it works in the real outdoor conditions.
If it does, thats great. I hope it does. Does the wind blow it out? How much longer does it take when its 20-30 degrees vs inside?
If it works good for you...thats outstanding. I just found over the years that I like to heat things quicker and use less space in the pack with the stove I use.
I actually have 3 different stoves. A butane/propane mix stove...a duel feul stove and a multi fuel stove.
I like all 3 and they are all used in various outings...depending on if I am backpacking, camping, hunting, or fishing.
One other thought, with this being a survival forum, wouldn't you wanna limit the time the light from fire is present? I mean night vision or IR...you would be giving yourself away if your tring to hide...I have a stove that boils water in just 2-3 minutes, depending on wind and outside temps. Thats a liter of water!!!
I have no doubt that your stove works great for you...but when or if stealth is something you need, it might be good to have a good stove in your preps...if you never use it, barter with it...there is always someone that would like a new stove in a SHTF.

Except where do you buy your cannisters of butane/propane when TSHTF?

Do you stock 10 canisters? That would be 10 hours of cooking. Thats a lot of cooking time.
I get 8 hours of cooking time from one $2.50 can of Magic heat.

The flame is not large, so the heat signature is not large either. You could shelter it, and make it invisible to IR except for the side of it that faces some obstacle behind you.
You know shelter it on 3 sides. No matter what though, some ir will be present f you are outdoors.
Thats why I say, don't plan on being outdoors if you are trying to hide. Your body has a heat signature too.

Your flashlights are like a big sign that says, I have lots of cool stuff, please come and hit me on the head with a rock and take it.
For miles.
I have an infrared flashlight and I have an infrared camera that hooks up to glasstron goggles, Sony with night vision, so I can see in the dark.
Not well, but enough to go out and go for a pee.
I think the infrared flashlight is crap though compared to the Sony camera night vision. You can get an IR spotlight for your SONY cam corder with night vision, THEN, you can see well in the dark, if you have video goggles.
You only need all that if you are in a kind of war zone or danger zone, or in a SHTF scenario where people are fleeing into the woods or maybe that sort of thing.

Consider the power may be out everywhere. No street lights, so the city is pitch black.Except for moonlight which can be quite bright normally. But on a moonless night? Pitch black. I remember times camping as a kid, and I remember this clearly, saying to my buddy, when you turned off the flashlight, you could not see your hand in front of your face.

But in a city, with no street lights, at night, a person with a flashlight is a moving target.
An IR spotlight does have a tiny red light to it as well though. But still, the chances of you being seen, are greatly reduced. Especially if you are shining it at the ground, then they won't see the red bulb area.
SONY is phasing out its night vision though.
But you could get a used one for 200 bucks, and some video goggles for...oh I don't know, maybe 250

This is what I have, although I paid 900 bucks for them.
glasstrons
But the reason I bought them 8 or 9 years ago was so I would have a large screen to view while camping.
So they are battery operated, and since the led screens are right there they mimic a large screen.
I wouldn't recommend them though because its old technology. Not HDMI connector, an SVHS connector.
Super VHS. So the resolution is I think 800 x 600 or something like that.
The new ones are cheaper, and have HD resolution.

Its strange stuff, but well, who knows how dangerous it might be to be out at night. And if you use a flashlight, thats asking for trouble in an area where you hear gunfire at night.

Something to think about when it comes to light. Infrared. Handy when you need it. You can also see people coming in the dark with that type of camera. In real time. As a viewer.

Originally posted by da pickles
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

That's a seriously nifty little lamp, never seen one of them

I think they are excellent. And if you get one, go for the beeswax candles. They smell nice and last even longer than the parafin. Downside though beeswax attracts bears.
So thats why I bought 4 of each. 4 for bear country and beeswax for when there are no bears around.
I am tempted to get a little tea light one as well.But then you have to pack tea light candles and well, I don't know.
The benefit if the tea light lamp is it is tiny to pack. It extends when in use like the normal candle lantern.
But read the reviews. The reviews are not as good as the normal candle lantern.
The normal candle lantern can heat a tent. I don't think a tea light can do that. Well it can, but only for 3 hours.
So you have to wake up and put another tea light in there in sub zero temp, whereas the normal one will burn all night long and take the chill off the inside of the tent.

But for people who really don't want extra weight tea light candles might be the answer

And consider this. 9 hours for a large candle, and the tea light is much smaller but may last 4 hours?
So for weight/light ratio maybe tea lights are more practical. Its a matter of personal choice I guess.
Packing around weight is annoying. But my experience has always been, there is nothing more annoying than being there and wishing you had just brought that thing you need so badly right now. (whatever it might be)

You know I had a look at the brass candle lanterns and someone said they bought that one because it was sturdier however, when I went down there to look at it, I was expecting cast bronze or something, but its cheap thin brass sheeting, the same thickness as the aluminum one, and didn't look sturdy to me.

SO I weighed the LED light add on, against brass, and said to myself another spare LED flashlight, that weighs almost nothing, and lasts 40 hours? For the same price as the brass one without?
No contest.

I have an LED flashlight I use every night at work when I am in the back of my delivery truck.
Now this is really strange. I bought it for a dollar at the dollar store. And it came with a battery.
It is the whitish glow in the dark kind. I will find a link and show you...
Similar to this but white and not green.

So I have been using it now for almost 2 years all the time and for the last 4 months, when I go to turn it on, it doesn't work. So then I smack it against the side of the truck, somehow that recharges the battery!
Isn't that incredible?
I give it a couple good whacks and presto! Just like new.
I don't know if I am mistaken or what but it just keeps working!

The future of LED flashlights looks very bright. And may last a very very long time on a couple batteries.

Speaking of flashlights. Keep in mind if the zombies hit the fan, then the power might go out. If the power goes out, and maybe does not come back on? Flashlights may be worth their weight in gold.

You want to barter for food? Well, who wouldn't take a flashlight when thats the only source of light for most people?

As I stated earlier I went a little nuts on the flashlights, and bought a pack of them on sale at the grocer for emergencies. An LED pack with 4 small ones, and two headlamps and a plethora of batteries in the pack for maybe 20 bucks. Then I decided, thats not enough flashlights.
So, I ordered a couple super flashlights from China. They are absolutely crazy for flashlights in China.

This one place where I order stuff, they stock 50,000 items on their website, and I think half of them are flashlights.
But I thought that my super flashlights that charged in a USB type charger, or car battery USB lighter plug adapter, I paid about 30 bucks each, bought 2 of them, they charge in 20 minutes.

Now I just found a flashlight that charges in 90 seconds!
Cost an arm and a leg though. I think its an American product.
for the real serious flashlight person

So one flashlight junkie stated the obvious about this capacitor flashlight (no battery at all in it just a capacitor hence the flash charge in 90 seconds) but if the capacitor has a problem, its not like you can just change the battery. So maybe thats not the best most reliable mission critical flashlight for 175 dollars.
Way too expensive for me, when I have an everlasting eternal magic flashlight like from some Twilight zone episode, that works for ever as long as you smack it.

And another interesting fact I read that had the physicists baaffled, was from a 16 year old kid who asked, why does my flashlight work, after the batteries are dead, if I turn them around and put them in the other way?
Then, after a while, I turn them around again and they work again that way!

You know what I think all this is? I think that the new lithium polymer batteries, have some glitch, that they have characteristics that are unlike other batteries, and people are just discovering this stuff.

Who would turn, their dead batteries around, and put them back in the flashlight the wrong way???
Well I guess it is working for someone.

I will tell you this though, my little one dollar eternal flashlight that I smack to recharge it, I am never going to open it and see why it does it. That might break the magic spell.

If you go looking for a tactical flashlight, don't believe everything they tell you.



That light is only 200 lumens.

The UltraFire™ WF-502B Cree MC-E that I bought, is 900 lumens. And 900 lumens is not the brightest small flashlight.
What 900 lumens is, is you take oil from the head of a sperm whale, and make a one pound candle, and the wax from that oil, burns pretty much pure white. So the light it gives off is equivalent to one lumen.

Here is a flashlight nut, who bought two Ultrafire flashlights, and you can tell he is a flashlight nut, because he removed the circuit board from one, and reprogrammed/replaced, the microchip, so it would flash SOS as well as the other modes.
Now he bought the Ultrafire 502B 200 lumens. And well the strange thing about that Chinese company, is they don't change the model numbers, for some different brightness flashlights.
So for the 502B it comes in varying brightness capcity. 200, 600, 900 whatever. And they are not necessarily priced by brightness, because you can end up paying more, for a 200 lumen flashlight since prices are based on market sales and market forces.
Sounds silly but thats how it works. If a company buys a 10000 of one kind from them, they can sell it cheap, as opposed to if they only buy 100 of them from that company.

But since I bought the 502b, I can attest to the fact, that its an excellent flashlight for 30 bucks.
Incidentally, a mag light flashlight is 17 lumens. There is a big difference between 17 lumens and 900.
As the first video states, it will blind an attacker. Even at 200 lumens.

Ok so I figured out why the discrepancy regarding the 502b tactical flashlights from UltraFire. You see I'm not a flashlight junkie so I didn't know that there were different chips in there that come with different models.

So a reviewer cleared it up for me...

Very Bright for it's size. Great Throw/Flood balance (More throw than flood) Love it. It's heaps brighter than my XR-E 18650 WF502b torch!
Cons:
None that i can think of now. It does everything it says on the tin! I bought this as I wanted to see what the MC-E Cree chip was like - It's pretty bright. HEAPS more so than the XR-E WF502B i've already got.

A caution though, if you order anything from this site, it took a month for delivery. But they do have free delivery on most items and I never had to pay duty or taxes, they say its a gift and worth 10 bucks or something no matter what you buy there. Because they don't understand I guess.

This is the one I bought

But in the one video above in my previous post, he said he saw one similar to one of the ones he bought in a outfitters, and it cost 350 bucks.
350 bucks? That seems a little pricey for a flashlight if you ask me. But then some people want to spend lots of money thinking that is how you get quality. I don't know, but as I said, I bought two of the Ultrafire, bought a couple chargers, extra batteries, and it was all real cheap, and basically, I have never seen any flashlight so bright. The only thing that comes close, is my Benq Projector, that I use as my computer screen.
I project my computer screen on the wall. 7 foot. Works amazingly well even with the lights on because the bulbs are so bright.

But for tactical signalling? How far will a 900 lumens light be visible? I have no idea, but not only would someone trade a can of beans for it, they would trade a family member, when you show them how far it shines a light beam.

All suggestions here have been really helpful. If SHTF than I plan to stay put as long as I can (if at all possible) but if I do have to head out I like the idea of not having to carry and rely on fuel that will eventually run out. The ability to use things I find around me is a huge selling point. So I am torn between the following:

Emberlit Stove
BioLite

The BioLite was top on my list due to the fact it could charge electronics via USB, until it was wisely pointed out that 1 electronics will not last long if on the move and 2 they may not work at all depending on how big the SHTF scenario is.

You have all given me a lot to think about.

Originally posted by nfldtater
All suggestions here have been really helpful. If SHTF than I plan to stay put as long as I can (if at all possible) but if I do have to head out I like the idea of not having to carry and rely on fuel that will eventually run out. The ability to use things I find around me is a huge selling point. So I am torn between the following:

Emberlit Stove
BioLite

The BioLite was top on my list due to the fact it could charge electronics via USB, until it was wisely pointed out that 1 electronics will not last long if on the move and 2 they may not work at all depending on how big the SHTF scenario is.

You have all given me a lot to think about.

I think that Biolite rocks. I was wondering if there are other thermo couplers that you can just toss in the campfire or something and charge your walkman.
I can't wait for that technology to be mainstream since I love my gadgets, and have redundant backup gadgets if some of them fail.

sorry for this out of context post, but that bio lite camping stove looks pretty great!
and it's cheap! need to read rest of thread. sorry.

If your really wanting to save weight and space....why take a stove...build a fire and you don't need any of it.
If you wanna use a stove fine, but it is just extra weight in a SHTF...that I would rather have food, water, or first aid supplies.
If its just for camping..to each his own...for a SHTF...its just wasted weight and space.

reply to post by netwarrior


I have to agree with the dragonfly to kick off any system. From there learn to build a fire. There are a lot of sources of fuel that will be overlooked and can be used such as acetone so as long as you can transport the fuel your good to go. If you can build a fire you can always cook. You may not be able to grill the perfect t-bone but then again were are you gonna get a steak anyway. Fish will cook just as well on a hot rock as it will on a frying pan. If anything you need a good lightwieght pot or canteen cup to boil water and reconstitute dried food or purify water. Remember ifyou lose youre primary mode of transportation your on foot so if has to fit in your pack, so keep it lite.