Doctor Calls Police, Child Services on Mother Who Refuses to Vaccinate Son

reply to post by Blaine91555

You didn't read the material did you?
Polio went away even though the vast majority of people were never vaccinated for it, AND it went away in countries that NEVER vaccinated ANYONE.
The problems/disease as a result OF the vaccine (proven) are exactly like polio, but they changed the definition of polio so they can say it has been eradicated. The only cases, however, were FROM the vaccine. Clever, huh?
Read.

If a reaction of any kind is seen more than 8 weeks after the vaccination then it is not attributed to the vaccine itself.Long term damage is never even looked into only damage that is more or less immediately caused. Funny how this lets off the hook most problems that really are down to the vaccine.
I have never had flu or any other serious illness in my life and I am oer 50 and thankfully had no vaccines since the age of 3, my mother refused them for me and I am so grateful. My immune system works just fine I have nursed people with really serious flu etc and not even caught a sniffle from them. However my husband who was heavily immunised as a child gets just about everything that is going around.
I say let your kids develope their system as it was meant to be developed, plenty of dirt and germs when young combined with plenty of good quality healthy unadulterated food( hard to get I know) but as for being forced to have a vaccine then I give a resounding NO.

Dont know if this has already been said (those pro vaccine peeps make such looooong posts) but I'll say it any way.
A study by the WHO.
If the entire population of America were to be vaccinated with the flu shot then we could expect about 300000 - yes thats THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND deaths caused by vaccine reaction.

I wonder how many would have died from the flu or whatever?

Do this for 25 years and we'd have sacrificed seven and a half million people.

So to those who want the shots YOU GO GET THEM.

I remember when I was a child my mother took me to her freinds house and put me into bed with her freinds daughter so I'd get the measles. I've never had a vaccine and never caught it since.

I wish she'd done that when I was sixteen

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Please keep your unvaccinated children away from mine, I don't like to have ANOTHER posting in my daycare saying "Kindergartengroup xyz is closed for a case of ...". This always happens at the worst of possible times, I have to find a day nanny in shortest while, and its *nearly* always the unvaccinated child in that group.

Now what a stupid comment WTF are you so worried about if your kids are vaccinated . Or are you just upset because you had to run around to find a sitter. How about keep your kids away from mine Obviously the parents were to busy with maintaining their lifestyle instead of raising their kids properly and dumping their kid off at the first daycare.

parents should have the right to refuse a vaccination

but

the insurance company (us) should not have to pay any claims if the child develops a disease that has an approved vaccination that was made available to the parents

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Please keep your unvaccinated children away from mine, I don't like to have ANOTHER posting in my daycare saying "Kindergartengroup xyz is closed for a case of ...". This always happens at the worst of possible times, I have to find a day nanny in shortest while, and its *nearly* always the unvaccinated child in that group.

Yeah, sure, there ARE risks - but your kid WILL get the disease anyway it could have had in a very much alleviated form as a vaccination. And now they have to send all the other kids back to their parents just because ONE mother didn't have her child vaccinated, thank you so very much.

Pffftttt, it's usually the kid who washes his hands every hour and has had every vaccine known to man. Sickly white little things who've never had a chance to just play in the dirt like a real child should. They don't give their body a chance to build up a natural immunity to viruses and other sicknesses. They rely on a man made defense system instead of their natural defenses, which in the process makes their natural immune system weak and redundant. Vaccines serve to do one thing: weaken the entire Human race.

reply to post by theRhenn


i don't get flu shots. part of the reason is that basically they are a crap shoot.

the drs. "predict" which varients of the flu will be around during the current flu season. so, they innoculate you for those varients. however, if you're innoculated for strains, a, b, and c and varient d comes around, you aren't innoculated against varient d and you'll end up with that variation of the flu.

it used to be in our school system, parents could refuse to vacinate their kids w/the provision that if there was an outbreak at the school, non innoculated kids had to stay home.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


Except I was there. Entire cities lined up for hours and hours if not days for the vaccines. That is a fact. In the town I was in people brought picnic stuff and nearly the whole town showed up the same day.

Face it, you are scared of them so you pick and choose what to believe. If I were you I'd more scared of not having them. If I had children I would be a very bad parent if I took an insane gamble with my own child's life based on the opinions of a few radicals instead of the opinions based on peer reviewed facts from real studies.

Look how many chose not to get the vaccine for H1N1 when they knew children were mainly the ones dying. What happened? A handful of bad reactions worldwide. Had it been like the Spanish Flu, many of their children would be dead and in the ground.

You want a lesson in reality, go to any old graveyard and look at the years around say 1913 to 1915. After looking at the rows of little lambs and angels, if you don't come away in tears, your not human. The numbers were staggering. It can and will happen again.

Straight up here, there is no grand conspiracy by the medical community. That is a product of peoples own paranoia and illiteracy. Yes there are those with titles to attach to their names that play those fears and there are people with MD's after their names who should not treat paper-cut. That is exactly why you get the truth from reliable sources where the general consensus backs it up.

I'm also of the opinion that anyone on the Internet giving medical advice to others better have an MD and be able to back it up with a license. They talk somebody into not getting a vaccine for their child and that child dies, it's their fault. Look how many use fear to sell useless products and snake oil to people after scaring them with. It's out of control in my opinion. Those babies who are dying from Whooping Cough needlessly are all dying because of irresponsible adults who won't get vaccinated and give it to children. That is real.

You will always be able to find exceptions. Do you save thousands, tens of thousands or perhaps millions, or do you forget about it because a handful of people will have a bad reaction or because some have an irrational fear of medicine and doctors?

If I'm not mistaken, Skiing is more dangerous than vaccines. That's why everyone keeps citing the same few cases and unverified studies over and over again.

Originally posted by ExposingYou

....It's like me coming over to your house and making you eat ice cream all day, or I'll take your children away if you don't! haha

DO it - i DARE you - come to my house and MAKE me eat icecream ALL day... bearclaw will be good

Go on - make my day!!

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by mainidh
Or are u one of those free thinking dissenters?
Shame on you!!

Free Thinking...now a Mental Illness

Is nonconformity and freethinking a mental illness? According to the newest addition of the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), it certainly is. The manual identifies a new mental illness called "oppositional defiant disorder" or ODD. Defined as an "ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior," symptoms include questioning authority, negativity, defiance, argumentativeness, and being easily annoyed.

calltodiscernment.blogspot.com...

I hear they have a cure for it

Whoa... I just googled ODD and got a quarter million hits. I cannot believe that is considered a real mental disorder! I've always been suspicious of the label "disorder." It seems they might be better off calling these things "conditions" or "personalities," but then that wouldn't sound so negative would it?

This is sick...I know this thread is about vaccines but this really threw me off! It's literally "do as you're told or you will be made to."

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Please keep your unvaccinated children away from mine, I don't like to have ANOTHER posting in my daycare saying "Kindergartengroup xyz is closed for a case of ...".

If your child is vaccinated then what is the issue? Don't trust that jab to be effective? Then why did you give it?

Hold on now, it seems to me there are some flawed arguments here.

I would be led to assume the "pro-vaccine" people truly believe the vaccines are effective. If the "anti-vaccine" crowd doesn't vaccinate their kids and those kids create "outbreaks" of these old diseases, wouldn't only the non-vaccinated people die or get sick? Why then would the pro-vaccine people care? The anti-vaccine people only got what they deserved, right?

Or do the pro-vaccine people just care so terribly much that the thought of even one person getting sick, even an anti-vaccine person, just is simply intolerable. That must be it!

Or do the pro-vaccine people actually subconsciously know that the vaccines are ineffective some or all of the time, and are simply clinging to the shots out of desperation, pride and fear?

At least they did what was "right" by getting vaccinated - so if they get sick, then it isn't their fault? If they get vaccinated and still get sick, then the non-vaccinated person must take the blame because they DIDN'T do what was right?

Or is it really a plot to thin the "herd" and harm humanity through poisonous vaccines, as the Alex Jones crowd so firmly believes?

Either way, I am not convinced vaccines are harmless, let alone truly effective. I was vaccinated as a child and didn't get any of the scary old diseases. Shrug.

(anecdote alert) I know someone personally who was given a vaccine booster at age 16. Within a month or two he went from perfectly healthy to being diagnosed with the worst case of Crones Disease the Dr. had ever seen in a minor.

Let me first say that I'm seriously impressed by the maturity of the posts in this thread. In many other forums, the pro-vaccine scaremongers would outnumber the rational thinkers at least 20 to 1 but we seem to have the upper hand for the moment.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

 

I'm old enough I lived through having the Whooping Cough (almost died at age 6 and was so sick for three weeks I still remember it), the Measles (had to be placed in a tub of cold water multiple times a day to bring my fever down), the Mumps (I was thirteen and had them drop on one side) and the Chicken Pox. Two of my neighbors died from Polio and I still remember standing in line at the school with my Mother when the first vaccine was available.

People don't remember now, because you have never seen it.

Blaine91555,

(You've really been through it and I'd be very surprised if you're not suffering from serious chronic illness.)

Like a lot of people, I witnessed the 9-11 attack (via television) but it took 10 years and websites like ATS before I understood what I had seen. You experienced/witnessed most of the childhood diseases but after so many decades, you still interpret the experiences using the dominant belief system.

I like to think that I have a special ability to search out the truth amidst all the dogma and superstition but in reality, I just have a teflon-coated brain that programming won't stick to. It leaves me free to rationally consider the alternative viewpoints and then decide which camp, if any, I will join.

Having performed research similar to DJM8507, I know that, on face value, there is an overwhelming number of research studies that support vaccination as both safe and efficacious. However, what counts is not the number of opinions but the results and that's where the vaccination facade begins to crumble. When you discover like I did, that it's built on a false foundation, any remaining credibility for it completely disintegrates.

Medical profession insiders have been coming out for centuries against vaccination either completely or as practised, but they are quickly ostracised by their fraternity. But instead of focussing just on the heretics, let's see the words of a pro-vaccine doctor about the quality of vaccine research.

In the words of the Committee Chair, Ellen Wright Clayton, Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality:

Although the committee is optimistic that more can and will be known about vaccine safety in the future, the limitations of the currently available peer-reviewed data meant that , more often not, we did not have sufficient scientific information to conclude whether a particular vaccine caused a specific rare adverse event.

and

Alleged adverse effects that appear to be immune mediated, as many of them are, are more challenging, in part because the biology is not completely understood. One potentially useful line of inquiry as science advances is to assess whether the vaccine recipient who suffers harm had a preexisting susceptibility to that particular adverse event as such studies may provide insight into the mechanisms by which such events occur.

Neither of these statements stand as a glowing testimony to the evidence base and level of science underpinning what is in effect a dangerous experiment with humans as the guinea pigs.

Now see what Dr Thomas Jefferson, who may one day be considered one of the Founding Fathers of Rational Thinking, has to say about the quality of research published in prestigous journals:

Relation of study quality, concordance, take home message, funding, and impact in studies of influenza vaccines: systematic review
BMJ 2009;338:b354

Conclusion: Publication in prestigious journals is associated with partial or total industry funding, and this association is not explained by study quality or size.."

- - -

Originally posted by Blaine91555
You won't find any long term clinical studies showing that the vaccines are a danger except on very rare occasions.

Correct. You also won't find any random control studies, or for that matter, studies with a control group to prove vaccine effectiveness. Why? Because the industry has no end of excuses for not conducting proper scientific study AND because the public accepts their word that vaccines work AND because the industry knows that such a study would have a negative result.

(continued)

reply to post by JohnJasper


On the subject of flu vaccine effectiveness, here is a sober statement about Influenzae from Dr. Thomas Jefferson (yes again.)
assembly.coe.int...

Influenza and influenza-like illness are not the same thing
We start with what we see sometimes several times a year: influenza-like illness (“the flu”). The WHO defines influenza-like illness as “an acute respiratory infection with sudden onset characterised by fever >38°C and at least one of the following: headache, malaise, rigors and sweating, asthenia and at least one respiratory symptom such as rhinitis and pharyingitis”. We are all familiar with this illness but what most people are not told is that the influenza viruses only account for a minority (7-15%) of these episodes. Instead, the world seems to believe that all flu is influenza and ignores the role of some 200 other agents. This is possible because physicians and patients cannot tell influenza apart from (for example) “flu” episodes caused by rhinovirus 16 or metapneumovirus (other common agents of flu), without special tests. The signs and symptoms look and feel all the same.

So according to lab tests, 7-15% of "flu" is actually caused by influenza. The non-influenza caused flu's are referred to as ILI. Much confusion is caused because influenza reporting ignores this...

The starting point [of confusion] is that few (if any) national and international surveillance systems make the distinction between influenza and influenza-like illness either because they do not believe the question is important, because the “system“ is not geared up for it or for other still unclear reasons.

...and the public is led to believe that the annual flu vaccine covers all flu...

Another consequence is the idea that influenza-li[k]e illness (“flu”) and its ravages can be prevented or minimised with influenza vaccines. Cochrane reviews show that vaccines could only affect at the most (i. e. if they had 100% efficacy) some 7-15% of the annual flu burden, since this is the proportion of people with the flu who truly have influenza.
...
Effectively what we are saying is we aim to control a major health problem, influenza-like illness (“the flu”), with a series of preventive interventions which can in the best case scenario prevent only 15% of that problem, while making people believe we can deal with the lot.

The picture is further complicated by the fact that we don't really know how much "flu" we're actually dealing with because of poor management by the authorities. In a study done by Peter Doshi, a graduate student on his way to a Doctorate at MIT, Peter tried to find out if the US surveillance system really was about influenza-like illness/flu or influenza. He asked the State Epidemiologists or Influenza Coordinators "what percentage of influenza-like illness/flu was influenza? " In 43 out of 51 possible interviews, the answer was essentially: “we do not know”.

Most understood the question, but still could not provide an answer because their surveillance systems were not focused on this question. There is an emphasis on the influenza agent only (any biological specimen which is not positive for influenza is thrown away) and the specimens reported thus represent an unreliable and biased estimate of the truth. So we have no idea how much ILI/flu there is and as consequence we cannot say for certain how much influenza is circulating as influenza is an unknown proportion of an unknown whole (influenza-like illness/flu).

What this evidence indicates is that we cannot trust vaccine industry's stats or claims about influenza or the effectiveness of their vaccines. Unfortunately similar sober studies are not immediately in evidence for the rest of the vaccine industry but the wealth of anti-vaccine literature produced over the lifespan of the industry stands as testimony that it has always been under suspicion and should not be trusted lightly.

(Jefferson has a lot more to say about the pandemic industry in the linked document but I leave that for the interested to read. The evidence supporting the above statements is contained in a number of published studies including this one:
Influenza vaccination: policy versus evidence
BMJ 2006;333:912)

Can we say NAZI? This doctor should be ashamed of himself, how DARE him or ANYONE to tell me what is good for my child and what isn't... If we don't want it don't make us!

Originally posted by freedomSlave
Now what a stupid comment WTF are you so worried about if your kids are vaccinated . Or are you just upset because you had to run around to find a sitter. How about keep your kids away from mine Obviously the parents were to busy with maintaining their lifestyle instead of raising their kids properly and dumping their kid off at the first daycare.

Originally posted by SeenMyShare
If your child is vaccinated then what is the issue? Don't trust that jab to be effective? Then why did you give it?

If the vaccinations work the way they are supposed to and you have vaccinated your children, then you have nothing to fear from children who have not been vaccinated. You can't have it both ways. Either the vaccines work at protecting a body from disease, or they don't. If vaccines cannot protect your children from children who were not vaccinated, then what makes you think the vaccines work?

Originally posted by djmarcone
Hold on now, it seems to me there are some flawed arguments here.

I would be led to assume the "pro-vaccine" people truly believe the vaccines are effective. If the "anti-vaccine" crowd doesn't vaccinate their kids and those kids create "outbreaks" of these old diseases, wouldn't only the non-vaccinated people die or get sick? Why then would the pro-vaccine people care? The anti-vaccine people only got what they deserved, right?

The relentless use of this argument is among the most annoying and IGNORANT used by anyone on any side of this debate. The motto of ATS being 'Deny Ignorance' it only seems proper that we take a quick primer.

NO VACCINE IS 100% EFFECTIVE. I admit it. Doctors will admit it. Scientists who study vaccines for a living will admit it. The CDC and WHO will admit it.

A very good vaccine might, for a huge variety of factors related to everything from health to genetics and thousands of other reasons no one knows about for sure, only end up leading to true protective immunity in 95% of the patients who receive it.

This is simple scientific fact. This is also why even vaccinated people (or, more likely, the parents of vaccinated children) are still concerned. If, for whatever reason, your child happens to be the 5% that the vaccination doesn't quite work in, then your child is still susceptible. Again, simple scientific fact.

This is where heard immunity comes in. If vaccination levels have reach into the high 90s and close to 100% (which may translate to 95% actually protected), the simple probability of the disease spreading - even among the non-protected population - is hugely diminished. This is simple scientific and mathematical fact.

Furthermore, there are entire groups of people - especially the VERY young, those with allergies to vaccine components, and those with certain immune disorders - that CANNOT receive the vaccination for VALID MEDICAL REASONS and RELY on herd immunity to prevent from getting ill.

IN SHORT, nothing is perfect and even vaccinated individuals have a real reason to be weary of declining vaccination rates in the population as a whole.

Originally posted by SeenMyShare

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
Please keep your unvaccinated children away from mine, I don't like to have ANOTHER posting in my daycare saying "Kindergartengroup xyz is closed for a case of ...".

If your child is vaccinated then what is the issue? Don't trust that jab to be effective? Then why did you give it?

Its not about my kid and the near-impossibility for it to get your kids disease - its because if your kid is in the same kindergarten as mine and yours gets measles, my kid has to stay at home as the kindergarten is forced to be shut down to avert even the slightest possible infection.

BTW: All you answerers to my posting always tried to attack THIS part - what about the part regarding YOUR side of letting US take all the "risks" of our kids getting vaccinated so YOUR kids could get the benefits of the herd immunity?