Paranoid Researcher or Justified Paranoia ?: Is someone watching us learn about 9-11 ?

Rafe,

In my view the Daniel Lewin character is one of the key elements in understanding 9/11.

The way I see it there are two main prongs of advance into the quicksand of 9/11 investigation.

One is by way of technical details. Planes, physics, fires, metal thermite, free-fall and I am sure you are well aware of that path.

The other "prong" is the people involved that we know about.

The two bookends with regard to people are at the start Dov Zacheim and at the end Philip Zelikow.

I will not even mention any details just look up those two names and see for yourself if you have not already done so. The random chance of those two men having the positions they did and them not being involved in 9/11 is zero - basically.

Now between the two bookends you have a whole host of characters including Larry Silverstein, Jack Abramoff, the five dancing Israelis, Benjamin Netnayahu, Ehud Barak, Daniel Lewin and dozens more - of course.

19 amateurs can not have pulled off 9/11. I don't anything about you but let me guess you are not Amish and that you could not get 18 of your buddies together next weekend and build a barn. I have some pretty great friends and one is a carpenter but I know we can not build a barn next weekend either and we could not pull off 9/11 in a year or two even if we had a couple of million to go toward training.

Rafe - nobody, I mean nobody goes from being a virgin architechural student one year to a commando / black op specialist a year later and leads the greatest par-military attack in history.

There was at least one professional commando on Flight 11, though and his name was Daniel Lewin. Not only that but the voice on the 9/11 recording is a Hebrew speaker speaking English.

Now to be fair Daniel Lewin was born in the US and moved to Israel at 12 or so without looking it up.

He was either shot or stabbed in that flight or shot or stabbed someone so he was involved. Read about Dov Zacheim, Philip Zelikow, listen to the so-called lead hijacker's girlfriend say he spoke Hebrew, read about Daniel Lewin then listen to waht former Marine officer Alan Sabrosky has to say.

Originally posted by Rafe_
^The above post and advice has been offered to you by the most suspicious man on ATS^

Respond to it as you see fit.
I am having a closer look at this "Daniel C. Lewin" it interests me .

Pass me the popcorn. Great show. Encore!

reply to post by BRAVO949

19 amateurs can not have pulled off 9/11. I don't anything about you but let me guess you are not Amish and that you could not get 18 of your buddies together next weekend and build a barn. I have some pretty great friends and one is a carpenter but I know we can not build a barn next weekend either and we could not pull off 9/11 in a year or two even if we had a couple of million to go toward training.

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Could you get on a bus tomorrow and hijack it by putting a box cutter to someones throat?? Of course you could. Back in 2001 planes had no more security than buses do today.

Can you fly a flight sim on a video game? Absolutely. Go to any flight school in the country and ask if a rank beginner can control a plane after a pilot had leveled out from take off. Don't forget these guys bought flight lessons on a simulator for these exact planes. If you still don't believe me ask any 12 yr old kid with a playstation.

Also these guys were religious zealots with no jobs and plenty of cash. They had nothing else to do but get a psyched up over their mission.

The simplicity of their plan is what allowed it to work.
It's that same simplicity that prevents many people from believing it did work.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by WhereAreTheGoodguys

 

Isn't half the fun of being a truther to imagine the men in black are after you ? Adds a slight frisson to life and helps thoughts of being a freedom fighter.

Well I just got home from work

Alfie 1,

Even though I do not agree with you I respect you for atleast asserting some plausable arguments in some of these 9-11 posts even though you do sometimes go off topic or pick the low hanging fruit.. and sometimes stealthy adding some personal attacks.

My main point for replying to you in this thread is I do not consider myself a "Truther" I do not get a kick out of it at all. To me these people are scary. I think we can both agree there have been "possible witness" who are no longer alive. To me it just seems to obvious and thats where me an you dissagree you dont seem to see any connections.

I'm just a husband and father who wants my kids to grow up in a safe country and live the American dream.

One thing I think you and I can agree on is: the world is much less safer than it was before 9-11 and we have lost a considerable amount of personal rights and freedom. For example I would of loved to traveled the Middle East at some point in my life but the only way I'm going there now is if someone drugs and kidnaps me

But yes I do want to fight for freedom not because it gives me thrills. I mean I'm just some guy on the internet looking at other peoples "work on the issue" and making comments most the time. Its just sometimes I feel obligated to say something, maybe its because I have kids I'm not sure.

Mazel Tov on the breakthrough, Shmuel!

I agree with one thing you said.

As mentioned on another post. The lead hijacker loved pork, drank all the time, had a stripper girlfriend, had a load of European friends, knew how to fly before he ever came to the US, used coc aine, killed some kittens just to see them die (as Johnny Cash said), screamed at his girlfriend for having a crucifix on the wall and spoke Hebrew.

Sounds exactly like the Israelis I know except he didn't have an Asian girlfriend or sell XTC as far as we know.

I am singing that old Jewish favorite "Haganah Knows Evil" as I write this, so if you are talking about a Talmudic religious zealot, I could not agree with you more.

I will be sending you an arm band so you can join the youth group I am supposed to be part of.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

19 amateurs can not have pulled off 9/11. I don't anything about you but let me guess you are not Amish and that you could not get 18 of your buddies together next weekend and build a barn. I have some pretty great friends and one is a carpenter but I know we can not build a barn next weekend either and we could not pull off 9/11 in a year or two even if we had a couple of million to go toward training.

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Could you get on a bus tomorrow and hijack it by putting a box cutter to someones throat?? Of course you could. Back in 2001 planes had no more security than buses do today.

Can you fly a flight sim on a video game? Absolutely. Go to any flight school in the country and ask if a rank beginner can control a plane after a pilot had leveled out from take off. Don't forget these guys bought flight lessons on a simulator for these exact planes. If you still don't believe me ask any 12 yr old kid with a playstation.

Also these guys were religious zealots with no jobs and plenty of cash. They had nothing else to do but get a psyched up over their mission.

The simplicity of their plan is what allowed it to work.
It's that same simplicity that prevents many people from believing it did work.

reply to post by ZeroUnlmtd


Thanks for the reply and thank you very much for not bashing me.

I do not think the goverment is that sloppy either. I mean these comanies are just benevloent deliverers of information, right ? we should hope. One thing they do have is the means, opportunity and from what I've seen the connections to gain vast amounts of information on people and their viewing habbits, maybe even a means to see what they put on the internet. I mean they deliver so many things to peoples computers it would be easy for them to create a "back door" under the guise of a program like say -- your virus protection or something like java or quick time. if you see those process running you dont think twice about it.

The tracerts were not very helpful I just wanted to see how many hops it was to where they were and how many ms it took. I do not really think there was some guy in a CIA/NSA cubical attempting a peer to peer hack, But what I do think is these companies are involved in controlled dissemination of information and disinformation. And are most likely the front line of defense if any truth makes it through to the public.

The people who control the information control the truth. And with the connections these two companys have with the exact people I was researching is strange to say the least.

reply to post by cerebralassassins


That seems like a ton of work lol Maybe over the weekend I will look into that.

Like I said I'm not really that great with computers as you can tell I just know enough to get in trouble JK

I think they are honestly monitoring at some level, what I believe they are looking for relates to 9-11 and the people involved. Thats just IMHO

Originally posted by samkent
You are paranoid.
Face it they know who you are.
They know where you live.
They know where you work.
They know how much you earn.
They know what you drive.
They know you are not a threat.

And you think you are smarter than them by closing a few ports on a PC?
If they wanted to monitor you secretly they would go to your ISP and pick up every single packet sent to and from your IP.
No bread crumbs for you to follow. Done!

Go tell your wife you had a dumb moment and need a hug. Both problems solved.

Honestly I believe you are right.

But it still is very strange who is linked to these companies and what they are doing.

Lets just focus on Everyones Internet for a second and forget about Daniel Lewin and the fact that just recently on this site debunkers were calling BRAVO949 a liar for saying he in Irsaeli Intel.. From what I gather it is fact now.

Everyone Internet hosts 100s of thousands of web pages no dening that..

But during a cruicial point in our history after 9-11 they were hosting terriorist web sites,

Now lets just say for a second for the sake of arguement that 9-11 was a inside job, ( I know its a stretch for the debunkers but bare with me ) Then lets say Al-Qaida was a CIA front/set-up whatever. Now you would need a medium to spread the fake/made up information from this fake group, sure you would have some real radicals in the mix but that is just icing on the cake. You could use your fake web sites to recruit radicals and set up a fake networks and propoganda, of and for said people, for all of America to see just how bad and evil these (unknown to them) fake people/groups are.

Thats all I'm saying. They have the connections with the people believed to be the cause (Bush's etc), because of that they have the motive and the opportunity.

Everyones internet had to be petitioned to bring down these sites in some case's, to me this was all propoganda, a great deal of made up stuff with some sprinkles of truth that possibly some real jihadist jumped on.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Thanks Dave,

Do you work for Akamai

a,b&c) Thanks for summary, very well laid out and easy to understand.

d) I dont think I was claiming that I had a virus or a trojan. I was and am aware how they can get on your system.

e) I agree computer threats like the ones you listed should be taken seriously for sure. But where I'm at now with this is a little past someone watching me, I'm convinced they are watching everything and everyone. www.nsawatch.org...
I mean hey if you pulled off one of the biggest crimes/false flags in the history of the country wouldnt you want to know what was being spread around the internet about it ? The connections these companys have to people directly involved and what they do and how they do it is just kinda strange to me.. but thats just my opinion I guess.

f) I never stated exactly what ports they were on, just a range. Also I do have the latest definitions for all my antivirus, spyware, firewall etc all thanks to Akamai benevolent hosting servies

reply to post by WhereAreTheGoodguys


Do you download torrents?

reply to post by samkent


Hi samkent:

Could you get on a bus tomorrow and hijack it by putting a box cutter to someones throat?? Of course you could. Back in 2001 planes had no more security than buses do today.

My usual go to site with solid references is down so for now these sites and links will have to do, If you like I can provide more evidence tomorrow when the black out is over. Some of these site I link the debunkers will claim are from loony fringe "Truther" sites but all that I will link can be cross referneced and verified.

On the morning of September 11th, the terrorists' luck commenced with airline and airport security. When the 19 hijackers went to purchase their tickets (with cash and/or credit cards) and to receive their boarding passes, nine were singled out and questioned through a screening process. Luckily for those nine terrorists, they passed the screening process and were allowed to continue on with their mission.

Above is from this site : www.9-11commission.gov...

Below is from this site : worldtradeconspiracy.com...

A manual written by the airline industry years before the Sept. 11 attacks instructed airport screeners to confiscate from passengers boxcutters like those used by the hijackers, documents show.

Can you fly a flight sim on a video game? Absolutely. Go to any flight school in the country and ask if a rank beginner can control a plane after a pilot had leveled out from take off. Don't forget these guys bought flight lessons on a simulator for these exact planes. If you still don't believe me ask any 12 yr old kid with a playstation.

My opinion is we will never know how the planes were flown so precisely into the 3 buildings that got hit. But I think we have to ask ourselves now at this point does it matter ? It is a reality now, it happened, lets move past it and ask other quesetions about the delivery of the planes to their targets:

One question I would like to ask is was there any importance of the flght school Mohamed Atta attended in South Florida owned by Rudi Dekkers ?

If you want to jump down a rabbit hole here ya go : www.madcowprod.com...

The site talks about shady stuff going on and with planes important people and drug running amongst other things. Who has ties to Florida ?

In the April 28 2008 Los Angeles Times, Robert Schriebman wrote “The covert U.S. effort in China "makes the Iran-Contra affair look like a small-scale operation."

Sarasota Herald Tribune publisher David Lindsay Sr., who commanded the Flying Tiger base of operations in Kunming, China, home to heroin trafficking on behalf of Chennault's boss, Nationalist Chinese warlord Chaing Kai-Shek, brought... something back to Sarasota County, but we're not prepared yet to say just what.

But when 43 lbs of heroin (a Central Florida record, according to the Orlando Sentinel) were discovered in July 2000 aboard Wally Hilliard's Lear-jet, owner of the flight school that Atta began training at just three weeks earlier. it was business as usual in the drug trafficking industry, in the town of Venice, in the County of Sarasota, and on and along Florida's Gulf Coast.

So who is Wally Hilliard ?

Hilliard has friends in high places, including former Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush.

Another question I want to ask is whats is the history of that innocent little Venice airports in Saratosa county.:

One place to look for answers would be the amazing progression of Stephen Ruth, the second person at the Venice Airport—General Byrd being the first— whose name is entwined in the story of the JFK assassination and its aftermath.

Byrd, of course, is a familiar name in the story of the Kennedy Assassination. He owned the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas, from which Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly fired the shots which killed President John F. Kennedy.

So then we ask who else has connections in Florida and has anything else happend there that is important to us:

Why did Jeb Bush and federal agents seize records from Huffman Aviation - Florida flight school of Mohammed Atta, and other 9/11 hijackers - in the middle of the night following the attacks of September 11th and load them onto a C-130? And why did Jeb Bush know, hours after the attack, where to look?

www.scoop.co.nz...

Hmm was there any VOTE FRAUD going on in Saratosa county that could of help'd Bush win the election ?

What county was the school in Bush was at day of 911 ?

reply to post by snowcrash911


No I do not mess with any torrents or downloads. Not even ITunes is on this computer. I play some games on it SKYRIM is a new one I have, I do have Steam but it only starts up when I start it . I try to keep background process at a bare minimum.

Originally posted by WhereAreTheGoodguys

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by WhereAreTheGoodguys

 

Isn't half the fun of being a truther to imagine the men in black are after you ? Adds a slight frisson to life and helps thoughts of being a freedom fighter.

Well I just got home from work

Alfie 1,

Even though I do not agree with you I respect you for atleast asserting some plausable arguments in some of these 9-11 posts even though you do sometimes go off topic or pick the low hanging fruit.. and sometimes stealthy adding some personal attacks.

My main point for replying to you in this thread is I do not consider myself a "Truther" I do not get a kick out of it at all. To me these people are scary. I think we can both agree there have been "possible witness" who are no longer alive. To me it just seems to obvious and thats where me an you dissagree you dont seem to see any connections.

I'm just a husband and father who wants my kids to grow up in a safe country and live the American dream.

One thing I think you and I can agree on is: the world is much less safer than it was before 9-11 and we have lost a considerable amount of personal rights and freedom. For example I would of loved to traveled the Middle East at some point in my life but the only way I'm going there now is if someone drugs and kidnaps me

But yes I do want to fight for freedom not because it gives me thrills. I mean I'm just some guy on the internet looking at other peoples "work on the issue" and making comments most the time. Its just sometimes I feel obligated to say something, maybe its because I have kids I'm not sure.

edit on 18-1-2012 by WhereAreTheGoodguys because: (no reason given)

I don't agree with your suggestion that some possible 9/11 witnesses have been eliminated. All the suggestions for that which I have seen are ludicrously tenuous and improbable.

And I also don't agree about loss of a "considerable amount of personal rights and freedom ". The only thing to impact me is greater security at airports, taking my shoes off etc..

You say you would love to go to the middle east but are wary of doing so. Well I have been to Egypt and Jordan in the past 18 months with no problems at all and I think your concerns are greatly exaggerated.

I am quite certain that the FBI, CIA, MI6 and Scotland Yard have better things to do than watch us waffling pointlessly about 9/11 on ATS. So don't let imaginary shadows stunt your life.

reply to post by WhereAreTheGoodguys


WhereAreTheGoodguys, you've only shown that at some point in time, netstat showed either established connections or listening ports. You have not told us whether or not these ports were UDP or TCP, the originating PID, and you haven't provided any sniffer logs so we can inspect the TCP/UDP-IP packet data, so we've got absolutely nothing to go on here.

If the "NWO" actually succeeded in connecting to your computer, blocking ports won't have eliminated the local security problem, namely the processes listening on the ports you claimed were active.

In other words, a tempest in a tea cup, since you can't reproduce the "anomalous behavior" you claimed.

Thanks for coordinating with "BRAVO" in plugging his anti-semitic thread, though. Lots of intrigue, mystique, paranoia, and last but not least, a wholly unwarranted persecution complex.

You give John Nash a run for his money, minus the invaluable contribution to decision theory, of course. Perhaps you should take up studying non-existent patterns and s3kr3t coded messages from the 'reds' in your local newspaper's advertisement section? .

reply to post by samkent


I ran out of room on my last reply to you so I'm gonna toss out a little more information maybe you can consider next time you try to state a falicy as a fact.

You said :

Also these guys were religious zealots with no jobs and plenty of cash. They had nothing else to do but get a psyched up over their mission.

A reporter Elinor Brecher went back to Florida to check on some old witness to see if their stories changed in the years after the event.

She found the manager of Shuckem's Raw Oyster Bar ---Tony Amos:

Below links are from this site : www.madcowprod.com...

The paper tracked down the former manager of Shuckum’s Raw Oyster Bar, Tony Amos, whose misfortune was to have witnessed Mohamed Atta, Marwan Al-Shehhi and a third still-unidentified man getting drunk in his bar several nights prior to the 9/11 attack.

In the article’s opening sentence, The Mami Herald confirmed what to some observers was never in doubt: Tony Amos tells the same story today that he first related in TIME, NEWSWEEK, and the AP wire service just two days after the 9/11 attack:

“On Sept. 7, 2001, Mohamed Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi pounded down drinks at Shuckum’s Oyster Bar on Young Circle in Hollywood,” the paper reported…

Tony Amos goes on to say :

"The guy Mohamed was drunk, his voice was slurred, and he had a thick accent,"

All three major American networks also reported the same basic story: FBI Agents showed up at Shuckum’s just 12 hours after the attack. The agents showed employees—especially manager Tony Amos and bartender Patricia Idrissi—photos of two men.

They were heard saying things like "F...God" and were very drunk.

The sad part about this is the immediate revisionist history by new sites like The Washington Post:

The Friday night before the attacks, Atta and two other men -- one of them another suspected hijacker, Marwan Al-Shehhi -- spent 3 1/2 hours at a sports bar in Hollywood, Fla., called Shuckums. Atta played video games, a pursuit out of line with fundamentalist beliefs. But the manager on duty that night has said that he doesn't recall seeing Atta drink alcohol.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Thats direct contrast to what was orinonally reported and what the witness said. The LA times also lied.

My point is you make them out to be Religous Zelots.. Your version of Religous Zelot miss's one thing .. They were hammered drunk and cursing God. Muslims especialy Radical ones do not do this. I could link more post more and say more about just this one subject but do some searching your self and you will see how wrong you are.

And with respect to Jeb Bush flying to Huffman to personally pick up Huffman's dossiers, do you have any evidence?

I'd find that very interesting, but so far, reading Rudy Dekkers' side of the story and contacting him, I know of no such event.

If you have any credible sources besides Hopsicker, help me out.

Originally posted by WhereAreTheGoodguys
reply to post by samkent

 

My point is you make them out to be Religous [sic] Zelots [sic].. Your version of Religous [sic] Zelot [sic] miss's [sic] one thing .. They were hammered drunk and cursing God. Muslims especialy [sic] Radical ones do not do this. I could link more post more [sic] and say more about just this one subject but do some searching your self [sic] and you will see how wrong you are.

911myths.com...

Bla bla bla, no hijacker notions of "radical muslim" behavior are inaccurate and ignorant.

reply to post by snowcrash911


I have to get some sleep but before I get off to bed,

In you unyeilding need to debunk something you are missing some major points in this.

I admited I was paranoid LOL. I said I could be wrong about it, and asked for others opinions debunker truthers computer geek or whatever. After reading some of the replies I thought about it and agreed I dont think it was a direct attack on me personally.--go back and look at my replies unless your just jumping to the back of threads and posting stuff ? --I never stated I was a computer genius, in fact I stated the opposite.

But that night when I was done researching Daniel Lewin who I heard about in a post by Bravo I found two suspicious things. when I did do the reverse IP look up Akamai poped up and I googled the company and guess who poped up DANIEL LEWIN and the other site was for hositng TERRORIST web sites.. so ya I got spooked...

Then as I researched they companys more guess who else's name poped up people from the Bush family. You see this struck a nerve on me beause even before 911 (as I stated in the OP) I researched for connections to JFK, RFK, JFK-jr, and the possible attempted Cou on Regan.

Anyways I have to go to bed have a meeting in the morning with Jeb and Poppy. We got to get him on the ticket for Romneys Vice prez so he is ready for 2016.

One last thing in parting and I might be wrong on this too but I think some of the Debunkers might have some Jewish heritage wich is cool, Im not anti anything. But you guys might want to do yourself a favor and look up the Bush family history.. They financed the Nazi's and profited on the deaths of your race/religon/ancestors .

reply to post by WhereAreTheGoodguys


I have researched the Bush family history. It's terrible and nicely outlined in Russ Baker's "Family Of Secrets".

However, without further evidence, activity on high TCP or UDP ports is meaningless.

You are quite likely filtering ports for no reason which will at some point impede normal functionality of your computer.

Undo the firewall rulesets you added and see if the traffic reoccurs. Capture the raw traffic selectively using a sniffer and hand us the results. I will probably be able to provide you with an answer within hours.

Originally posted by WhereAreTheGoodguys
reply to post by snowcrash911

 

One last thing in parting and I might be wrong on this too but I think some of the Debunkers might have some Jewish heritage wich is cool, Im not anti anything. But you guys might want to do yourself a favor and look up the Bush family history.. They financed the Nazi's and profited on the deaths of your race/religon/ancestors .

Just so there is no misunderstanding of motives you should know that I don't have any Jewish heritage at all. I am in fact a male WASP and I don't recall ever being on the receiving end of any prejudice in my life.

Doesn't mean that I don't care about bigoted hate rants against any group of human beings simply for breathing.