Natural remedies "seldom effective"

Just like anything else, an informed person can make an intelligent decision. When researching natural remedies on the net you need to spend time in order to figure out what is effective and what isn't. This is no different than finding out about the potential negative effects of phama "cures". That said...


This post is expected...


Everyone simply look at OP's posting history and you will see the what's going on here. Dude has a serious agenda. to me it seems he is here for the sole purpose of promoting the mainstream message.

reply to post by ShockTruther


Yeah I have a serious agenda - it's called denying ignorance.

And so a lot of people don't like me saying stuff that is based by fact.

Not at all sorry about that

Edit: I'd just like to ad that I have no problem at all with "natural remedies" that have good evidence of working - I have said so in previous posts in this thread - the guy who wrote the article quoted in the OP seems to feel the same. Even only 5% of "natural remedies" being effective is a lot of remedies.

The issue isn't "mainstream" vs "natural" at all.

The issue is verified and tested vs hearsay.

And as I have already posted, there are a VAST range of "natural remedies" that are rubbish - homeopathy, magnetism, etc are all included too - there are huge numbers of such.

Since there are some here who insist on Steve Jobs' case as evidence of the evils of alternative healthcare and insist only on "evidence-based medicine" as valid, please see this article and do comment further!

Another interesting article can be found here just as a little more food for thought.

The fact is that we simply do not know enough about cancer or disease in general of any kind to instantly jump in with radical treatments. Particularly of concern is the number of women who willingly go under the knife at the first hint of breast or uterine/ovarian cancer. To all women I say now in the loudest voice I can muster "Keep yourself perfectly clean inside! Do not consume or apply anything made in a laboratory! If you cannot visually identify the plant it came from, it doesn't belong within arm's length!" Please heed these words. No more cosmetics, hair color, deodorant, chemical hair removers, hand cream, lip balm or anything else of that nature! If you need that sort of thing, you're covering up illness. Address the illness, not the symptoms. Do not cover things up. Heal them. Women have great responsibility on this planet. It's time we started doing as we're meant to.

reply to post by CosmicEgg

The fact is that we simply do not know enough about cancer or disease in general of any kind to instantly jump in with radical treatments.

What's there to know? Cells in your body go OFP (Own #ing Program), consume resources, and out-replicate your own cells. Then you die.

It's not rocket science. Untreated, you will die.

Now... getting into what causes cancer, and what is the best way to treat it... that's a little more tricky and approaches (if not exceeds) the "rocket science" category.

Particularly of concern is the number of women who willingly go under the knife at the first hint of breast or uterine/ovarian cancer.

The most effective way to treat tumorous cancers is to cut the tissue out. Since most women who develop breast and reproductive cancers are past the age where women are typically prospecting to be mothers, it should come as no surprise that women are ready to go under the knife.

Inflammatory cancers (the type that claimed both my grandmother and mother) are another issue, and are not so easily treated. Amputation is often done in the affected areas - but the fact is that most people are terminal by time that type of cancer is discovered (it's most often treated as a rash, because it has symptoms very similar to a rash... by time there's reason to believe otherwise, it's already late in the game).

To all women I say now in the loudest voice I can muster "Keep yourself perfectly clean inside! Do not consume or apply anything made in a laboratory! If you cannot visually identify the plant it came from, it doesn't belong within arm's length!"

You do realize that there are plenty of carcinogenic plants... right?

Please heed these words. No more cosmetics, hair color, deodorant, chemical hair removers, hand cream, lip balm or anything else of that nature!

People have been applying various cosmetics to themselves for thousands of years. Of course - Lye soap is about one of the most harsh things to bathe with short of sandpaper and a blow-torch. That stuff is all natural. There's a reason we started adding oils, fragrances, and other additives to make it so that our burlap clothing didn't make our newly bathed and oil-less skin bleed.

If you need that sort of thing, you're covering up illness.

Meh... I just think girls look better without all of that nonsense. No need to create a health conspiracy to try and get girls to shed all of the trashy makeup.

Address the illness, not the symptoms. Do not cover things up. Heal them. Women have great responsibility on this planet. It's time we started doing as we're meant to.

O~kay... I think you're reading a bit too much into it. Women wear makeup to compensate for age, or because they are highschool jail bait that want to try and look like the industrialized prostitutes on TV. Prostitutes used heavy makeup to cover signs of abuse (why purple eye-shadow became very popular - it helps hide the black-eye beneath) - still do.

Most aren't wearing it to cover up anything related to a health issue.

Of course - when talking about OTC medications; that goes back to what I said about simple dietary changes and some lifestyle awareness (being aware of how the decisions you make and the life you lead impact your health).

You don't need to go on "organic" diets or avoid restaurants like the plague to be healthy. You don't even have to spend a huge amount of time thinking about it... typically - the more colorful (literally) your diet, the better. If you're gaining weight - cut back on the sizes and frequency of your meals. If you're tired and losing muscle mass, your body is trimming down to the limits of its caloric intake - so you need to eat more.

It's... really ... not that complicated.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
Since there are some here who insist on Steve Jobs' case as evidence of the evils of alternative healthcare and insist only on "evidence-based medicine" as valid, please see this article and do comment further!

Another interesting article can be found here just as a little more food for thought.

I am curious as to why you think only people who believe in evidence based medicine (which of course includes those who believe in the evidence of natural remedies"!) should comment on those?

As far as I can see the first says that although it is not positively known, in the authors opinion, that SJ's 9 month wait made his cancer inoperable, it certainly did him no favours and the alternative treatments he did try were useless.

The 2nd says that medical scientists are still investigating and discovering potential ways of treating cancer, and are testing the effects and results in a scientific manner.

Hey! If not for the cleansing of "today's drugs" out of my system (*which was caustic from today's pharma drugs) and introduction of drugs in their natural form I WOULD NOT BE HERE! So to say they do not work is totally B.S. How can you expect anything in natural form to work quickly, most peoples systems are so acidic they could run any battery powered motor with their own spit! Ew! You want some GOOD advice? Do some cleansing...then try a natural formula and see if it works. I realize in this fast paced world most are looking for a QUICK solution for their aches and pains and don't really care that it took years and years to create the problem. So you can take a pill of ?, that has been tested on ?, by a profit bearing company OR you can trust thousands and thousands of years worth of experience. I know my choice!

reply to post by Aim64C


That's precisely the kind of ill-informed replies we're trying to avoid. Please don't add to the problem.

And don't start with plants are this and plants are that, at least not to me. Your condescension is unwarranted and unwelcome.

Understanding the body and the nature of illness is key to healing. Our "modern" approach to healing is wrong because we don't look at how the body actually works as a whole. We only look at "hey, there's a sick spot. Lop it off. Dose it with this wave/chemical." Bad thinking. Worse is that we aren't better for it. The whole person has to heal or illness will strike elsewhere, or recur in the same spot. It's the fundamental energy that is ill. The body is simply the manifestation. Until the person themselves are responsible (and not in some legislated manner, k?) for their own health and wellbeing, we will not make any progress toward healing. Until we understand our bodies and feel what they are trying to tell us, we will continue to be ill. Illness is a message that you're doing something wrong. Our lifestyles are lies. Our society is false. Our food is a joke. We must do better. We have to go back to the earth for our health. There is no choice.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Please do not try to make something out of nothing. Everyone is always free to comment on whichever post in this entire site. Don't be petty or absurd, please.

SJ would have had to be pretty far along already when it was discovered if nine months pushed him to the point of no return. Where his started is rather slow moving. But if you look at the metaphysical reasons for pancreatic disorders and cancers in general, and then read accounts of what a joy he was to be around, you might begin to see a picture of the root of his real problems and the inevitability of his outcome.

The *cause* must be addressed, not the symptoms.

More like always better?

ie, aspirin - it kills pain, thins blood, prevents heartattack, exfoliates topically when hydrated.. etc etc

where did aspirin use originate from, natural or synthetic?

just one of hundreds (or more) examples .........

Originally posted by Kllyblvn
reply to post by TheComte

 

My aunt, stepmother, mother in law, father in law, cousin, several area locals, adults and kids,and I could go on, all did the chemo/radiation. They are all dead.
Mother in law did the chemo/radiation and did live a few more years. Her kidneys and other internal organs turned to stone due to the treatments. So the treatment killed her.
Friend: Breast cancer: chemo/radiation: Caused RA. She has no immune system to speak of and suffers every day in pain. She has been using home remedies to treat herself and has had great success.
Not to mention the horrible sickness, the hair loss and torture they went through to try and live.
Your point was?
Only one thing sure in this life, the minute you are born you will surely die. I can't afford to get sick as we do not have health insurance and priced it way over our means..I have to have the internet to look up and use home remedies. Some work and I have first hand seen these things work. Others do not.
Now if they would get rid of the chemicals in our food, our lands, our soaps, our water.........there would be a good prevention there.

I make my own laundry detergent, other household cleaner,s deodarant, toothpaste, etc.. I even use only my own natural formulas for my dogs for things such as ear mites, kennel cough etc.

reply to post by Aim64C


Neglected to comment to a couple of points here.

Maybe you don't understand women. Women wear make-up for a number of reason, *few* of which are age-related. We color our hair to look younger, yes. So do men. But they don't wear lipstick or perfume or false eyelashes or fake fingernails or nailpolish or or or ad infinitum for age. Those are to cover perceived flaws. Those misconceptions of beauty are the product of patriarchy and the society it built. The very one that is in its death throes now. God rest its soul and farewell to wherever it's going.

You do specifically need to go organic but not in the mass-produced manner. People must first clean out their bodies in order to feel who they are and what *their specific body needs* because one body is not at all the same as another. We are all very different.

Perhaps a little more understanding of the universal oneness would do you some good. It seems to me that you compartmentalize things a little too easily, as do some of the other members commenting here *cough* ATG *cough*

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Please do not try to make something out of nothing. Everyone is always free to comment on whichever post in this entire site. Don't be petty or absurd, please.

sorry - what is petty about commenting on someone ele's post - if you cant' actually make sensible arguments then perhaps there's no reason for you to comment in the first place??

SJ would have had to be pretty far along already when it was discovered if nine months pushed him to the point of no return. Where his started is rather slow moving.

Perhaps you should read the articles - that is not the case at all.

But if you look at the metaphysical reasons for pancreatic disorders and cancers in general....

Metaphysical reasons for cancer??

Yeah....right!

and in unrelated cancer news Vitamin C doesn't cure man's cancer.

vitamin C may be a great thing for general health....but this is just another example of misapplication of "alternative" theoretical treatment. Hopefully it will not prove as detrimental to this guys as SJ's fateful decisions were.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Aim64C

 

Perhaps a little more understanding of the universal oneness would do you some good. It seems to me that you compartmentalize things a little too easily, as do some of the other members commenting here *cough* ATG *cough*

I find it better as a means of obtaining information for rational decision making than all-encompassing mystical woo that provides nothing more than gobbledygook - "universal oneness" being a prime example.

The cult of holistic mysticism is a curse on modern society IMO.

Well I was desperate, so I bought a few Bach flower essences. So far, nothing. It's been about a week. But... I can't say the "real" medicine is any better. I'd much prefer this than whatever the FDA approves from pharmaceutical companies. Nice placebo. Like prayer.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Modern society is itself a curse. One we will soon be done with and here's wishing it godspeed too. Eventually you will start to see. And if you don't, it really won't matter anyway.

Science does not have a monopoly on truth. In fact, it has very little to do with truth at all. Look for validation with your experiences. Direct experience will provide all the validation you need. Or is that the source of your need: Do you fear direct experience? Perhaps some direct responsibility for your life and decisions would do you some good. Might build some character, you know?

reply to post by CosmicEgg

That's precisely the kind of ill-informed replies we're trying to avoid. Please don't add to the problem.

Ill-informed?

Interesting way of describing it.

Guess that means I need to start pulling out the links to pro-natural health sources that delve into the biochemistry of food.

And don't start with plants are this and plants are that, at least not to me. Your condescension is unwarranted and unwelcome.

Plants are what they are. I can kill you with most of the plants you have around your home, and half of the ones growing in your garden. That doesn't even begin to approach the plants in your yard, or the often highly-toxic varieties that we cultivate because they look pretty.

Understanding the body and the nature of illness is key to healing. Our "modern" approach to healing is wrong because we don't look at how the body actually works as a whole.

Actually, we do.

The issue is that our body consists of some very complex and comprehensive chemical compounds. To further compound this issue, there are more bacteria cells in our bodies than there are of our own - with a host of different species and sub-species cycling through our bodies at any given time.

This is why we do things called "testing."

We only look at "hey, there's a sick spot. Lop it off. Dose it with this wave/chemical." Bad thinking.

No, it's practical thinking. If you have a toe chock full of gangrene... how would you propose "healing" your body?

Worse is that we aren't better for it. The whole person has to heal or illness will strike elsewhere, or recur in the same spot.

You're touching on a tangent, here.

As I've said before - someone who suffers from a serious medical issue needs to consider lifestyle changes. Someone who suffers a heart attack should consider changing their eating habits. Someone who suffers an aneurism should evaluate their exposure to stress and their mechanisms for dealing with it.

Even someone who suffers chronic minor issues should consider lifestyle changes. Chemicals in new carpeting or furniture can induce headaches. Too much sleep can induce depression (as well as be a symptom of depression - which means it's a gaining feedback loop, and something that should be addressed promptly). The list goes on.

It's the fundamental energy that is ill. The body is simply the manifestation. Until the person themselves are responsible (and not in some legislated manner, k?) for their own health and wellbeing, we will not make any progress toward healing.

This is rich. If only my mother had been more responsible for her own health and well-being. If only she cooked rounded meals for the family, exercised, spent time in the out-doors.... oh... wait... she did that.

What caused her cancer was the same that caused my grandmother's cancer. They moved into that house about the time my mother was born, and the water was later found to have been contaminated while a company had been dumping wastes from cleaning out engines into the local water supply (and polluting the water table). A swath of rare inflammatory cancers originated from that area, enough to prompt a class-action lawsuit. Both my mother and grandmother came down with cancer within months of each other.

Until we understand our bodies and feel what they are trying to tell us, we will continue to be ill. Illness is a message that you're doing something wrong. Our lifestyles are lies. Our society is false. Our food is a joke. We must do better. We have to go back to the earth for our health. There is no choice.

Right. Let me know how that works for you. When you actually have something serious.

Any sane doctor will tell you that our knowledge of medicine is incomplete. That is why it is called a practice - or even an artistic science.

Sure, it would be nice if we could DBZ our health issues away. Just go Super-Lymphocyte 2 and solve the problem... or eat a sensu-bean to resolve the gaping hole in our chest.

I'm among the first to point out that reality is something of a subjective concept... but you're pushing beyond the boundaries of what that implies.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Modern society is itself a curse. One we will soon be done with and here's wishing it godspeed too.

I'm sure you are capable of living without most of it...at least for a while.

Of course how you do it is up to you, but I can imagine that you could start by giving up everything that involves electricity, plastic, smelted metals, etc. Probably you would need to buy some property that has good deposits of flint on it.

Although it would compromise your philosophy, I think it would be interesting if you could come back in a few years and give us an account of how you are going & I would be really interested in getting that if you could do so.

reply to post by Aim64C


Wow.....here we have the PERFECT example of the "educated...idiot".

Child....have you ever heard of Ted Kazinski?
Otherwise known as the uni-bomber.

He also had a high IQ, and also had a very LOW level of WISDOM.......EXACTLY like YOU.

Truly, you need a guardian of some sort, you are not stable.

Intelligence (IQ as you measure it) is NOTHING without wisdom. You are still a child, and you need guidance.

OP wins this debate by default. Some of the best, most effective natural remedies we just can't talk about here.

reply to post by vogon42


When all else fails, when you can not longer debate the facts ratinally - then the ATS mantra is "attack the messenger".

Sadly such ad hominem attacks are all too common on ATS from teh believing masses.

Probably because of the low level of critical analysis ability exhibited by so many on here.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
OP wins this debate by default. Some of the best, most effective natural remedies we just can't talk about here.

lol......