What's Wrong With Us

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Man and animal are destroyers and violent killing machines by nature and instinct unfortunately. Makes me wonder what kind of "god" we really have to have created an existence in such a manner, if there is a "god".

"God = good? I really question that one the more I think about it all.

edit on 14-1-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)

According to the Bible, the animals are here, first and foremost, to feed us. That's what kind of God we have.

Also, it is interesting to see you talking about "killing machines" when you can type the words 'tree hugger' into Google and get millions of hits, including hundreds of worldwide organizations promoting the protection and defense of wildlife and forest all over the globe.

It's our leaders that this thread holds in question...for they are the ones with the power to make a difference beneath the influence of predatory instincts.

Unfortunatly our so called leaders are probably the people that are most drawn to power/ego and probably the worst people to lead and do not really lead but follow the peoples voices (even if they are missinformed about the situation) or the money that buys them. There might be exceptions like Kenedy.

The Biblewriters seem to have a big ego if they mean that animals do not have a own reson to be here other than be our food. Sometimes I think it is a miralce that people are able to wake up spiritually from the dream thru the bible. That is a miracle in more ways from god that just the awakening . Namaste

reply to post by apushforenlightment
My beliefs will probably never be popular. But they're much more realistic and observable than any spiritual/religious belief. Every single aspect of our behavior is based on our survival/fear-based instincts. Everything in our lives revolves around survival... food, water, place to sleep, social status. It doesn't matter if someone tries to ignore those base instincts. They will always be with us and they will always shape how we live on the planet. We are not 'higher beings'. We are merely an evolutionary monster, that outside of ourselves, destroy everything around us and offer nothing back to balance our natural environment. Nothing has changed. Our history as a species is very clear. Morality is nothing more than a rationalization of our instincts. The idea of utopia is utter fantasy. Again, a study of human history and behavior is all that is needed to dismiss those romantic notions of humans living in peace and harmony together, even -much- less with nature.

Few examples of our animal instincts:

Nations/Countries: Territory we fight and protect over.
Bullying: children working out social status amongst themselves. Will never go away.
Money: social status
Attractiveness: mating/reproduction cycle
Racism: Instinctual cultural differentialism
Sex: Every young guy and woman whose time is ticking feels these natural hormonal urges.. everything in our culture from TV to art reinforces this strong instinct.
Leaders: All social creatures have them and for the same reasons we have them.

I could list so many examples it would fill up a test book.

When I was seeking spirituality/religion answers to life, I never found anything that made sense to me. In fact, my BS detector went on overtime from the very beginning. I've been around spiritual/religious types most of my life, and in every case, I find people who have depression/mental issues (not belittling), corrupt people who use religion/spirituality to use other people, or people who just can't accept their circumstances in life and have to resort to the unknown and fantasy to find a place to fit in (social again!). Not surprising, one of the biggest symptoms of depression are delusions of grandeur and fantasy, something you'll see over and over right here on ATS among the spiritual/religious types, with their special 'powers' and 'feelings'. I totally respect the right of others to have any belief they want, but most of their beliefs are so nonsensical and ridiculous at times, I can't take spiritual/religious people seriously at all anymore. More of the same.. 'peace and love' wrapped up in metaphysically BS.

The root of our problem is we have never really accepted ourselves and what we are on the planet, and likely never will. I suspect it's part of our animal behavior as the apex predatory to have an attitude of being a 'higher being'. It's likely we will go on destroying ourselves and the planet. It's our nature to only worry about our hive or pack if you will, and as long as we have comfort, we'll continue doing what we do, only worrying about troubling aspects of our survival when we make mistakes (like Japan nuclear crisis). We will always 'act' first, without thinking, I believe. Look at the Pacific Garbage Patch? A very good example of out-of-sight, out-of-mind. But wait until it starts affecting our money/social aspects of our lives.

reply to post by thruthseek3r



I completely agree. But I am little wary of looking at the bright side...and forgetting the darker side. That is called 'delusion'.

Thanks for the reminder.

Originally posted by Balkan
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

My beliefs will probably never be popular. But they're much more realistic and observable than any spiritual/religious belief. Every single aspect of our behavior is based on our survival/fear-based instincts. Everything in our lives revolves around survival... food, water, place to sleep, social status. It doesn't matter if someone tries to ignore those base instincts. They will always be with us and they will always shape how we live on the planet. We are not 'higher beings'. We are merely an evolutionary monster, that outside of ourselves, destroy everything around us and offer nothing back to balance our natural environment. Nothing has changed. Our history as a species is very clear. Morality is nothing more than a rationalization of our instincts. The idea of utopia is utter fantasy. Again, a study of human history and behavior is all that is needed to dismiss those romantic notions of humans living in peace and harmony together, even -much- less with nature.

Few examples of our animal instincts:

Nations/Countries: Territory we fight and protect over.
Bullying: children working out social status amongst themselves. Will never go away.
Money: social status
Attractiveness: mating/reproduction cycle
Racism: Instinctual cultural differentialism
Sex: Every young guy and woman whose time is ticking feels these natural hormonal urges.. everything in our culture from TV to art reinforces this strong instinct.
Leaders: All social creatures have them and for the same reasons we have them.

I could list so many examples it would fill up a test book.

When I was seeking spirituality/religion answers to life, I never found anything that made sense to me. In fact, my BS detector went on overtime from the very beginning. I've been around spiritual/religious types most of my life, and in every case, I find people who have depression/mental issues (not belittling), corrupt people who use religion/spirituality to use other people, or people who just can't accept their circumstances in life and have to resort to the unknown and fantasy to find a place to fit in (social again!). Not surprising, one of the biggest symptoms of depression are delusions of grandeur and fantasy, something you'll see over and over right here on ATS among the spiritual/religious types, with their special 'powers' and 'feelings'. I totally respect the right of others to have any belief they want, but most of their beliefs are so nonsensical and ridiculous at times, I can't take spiritual/religious people seriously at all anymore. More of the same.. 'peace and love' wrapped up in metaphysically BS.

The root of our problem is we have never really accepted ourselves and what we are on the planet, and likely never will. I suspect it's part of our animal behavior as the apex predatory to have an attitude of being a 'higher being'. It's likely we will go on destroying ourselves and the planet. It's our nature to only worry about our hive or pack if you will, and as long as we have comfort, we'll continue doing what we do, only worrying about troubling aspects of our survival when we make mistakes (like Japan nuclear crisis). We will always 'act' first, without thinking, I believe. Look at the Pacific Garbage Patch? A very good example of out-of-sight, out-of-mind. But wait until it starts affecting our money/social aspects of our lives.

I have always hoped that I might have these 'powers'...it would be like the cheat sheet in the back of the book.

However, I think my own skepticism at my possible 'super-receptive abilities' kind of undermines the grandeur theory. I have no problem admitting I am intelligent; that's because I am. I will freely state that I am clever and wise; again, that's because I am.

But I will also state quite openly that I don't know everything, and that is why I am still searching. My point is that in stating I am wise and intelligent, is to remind other people that just as I don't know everything, they don't either. They were at my age once ( I am fairly young still, thought my younger years are swiftly retreating) and even after their own time, they can still learn from me.

I don't follow spiritualism for visions of grandeur and superiority. I follow spiritualism because I am sure if I dive deep enough, I'll find the diamond of truth. And that's when I'll show it to everyone, so they can join me in my quest for the greater knowledge.

reply to post by Starchild23


Apparently you failed to notice that i stated it as an OPINION, not as an argument.
There are no "flawed" opinions, only when they are attempted to pass as a fact,
does the word apply.
I have made no attempt to do so.
Again, it was MY opinion, treat it as such.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by thruthseek3r

 

I completely agree. But I am little wary of looking at the bright side...and forgetting the darker side. That is called 'delusion'.

Thanks for the reminder.

Bah, its no problem. Looking at the two sides of it always has been the key. Good it is if you understood my point on this one .


Keep up the good work,





Thruthseek3r

reply to post by Balkan


I can not convince you that there is something to spirituality but being critical thinking and a bit careful about going down the rabbit hole is a good thing from my point of view. There is a buddist saying that when the student is ready the master appears. And yes I agree that I am not in sync with this planet/systems and people. From my point of view humans including myself are in fact more or less crazy. And I do think it is social conditioning that is the problem. Spirituality is for me about coming over that stage of social conditioning and realising something more. It is a WOW moment where everything makes sense in a way that is overwhelming. Some people need to be in a very bad place to be ready for the experiance. A year ago I would call you crazy if you said I would belive in god/all/the devine but it is kinda hard to ignore it when you get answers in your own way.

I am a loner on this planet by my own decision but have people all around me that want to spend time with me. I do not fit in but it is by choice. Fiting in is lowering my ideals to the social mold. If you are happy as you are keep doing what you want whitin reason. You have your own choices to make and from my point of view your own path. From my point of view those who really are wise will never tell you that they have the answers for you. I do not know anyone elses road/way/life/destiny and I only know some of my past. I know that when I die and gets the answers or part of the answers I will laught my head off the things I thought was true. Not only faith should be questioned according to me. I question all things we take for granted, reality and god/all/the devine especially.

I do not go to church, I do things that the fundamentalist Christians and Muslims say is a sin. I am angry sometimes and harmonious sometimes. I probably have a bigger ego than I should. I am not perfect but still evolving. I have especially strong feelings on bullying and cruelty to the weak/animals that is way above normal.

Religon is for the ones who are affraid of death/hell. Spirituality is for the people who have been thru hell and have been reborn.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
reply to post by Balkan

 

I can not convince you that there is something to spirituality but being critical thinking and a bit careful about going down the rabbit hole is a good thing from my point of view. There is a buddist saying that when the student is ready the master appears. And yes I agree that I am not in sync with this planet/systems and people. From my point of view humans including myself are in fact more or less crazy. And I do think it is social conditioning that is the problem. Spirituality is for me about coming over that stage of social conditioning and realising something more. It is a WOW moment where everything makes sense in a way that is overwhelming. Some people need to be in a very bad place to be ready for the experiance. A year ago I would call you crazy if you said I would belive in god/all/the devine but it is kinda hard to ignore it when you get answers in your own way.

I am a loner on this planet by my own decision but have people all around me that want to spend time with me. I do not fit in but it is by choice. Fiting in is lowering my ideals to the social mold. If you are happy as you are keep doing what you want whitin reason. You have your own choices to make and from my point of view your own path. From my point of view those who really are wise will never tell you that they have the answers for you. I do not know anyone elses road/way/life/destiny and I only know some of my past. I know that when I die and gets the answers or part of the answers I will laught my head off the things I thought was true. Not only faith should be questioned according to me. I question all things we take for granted, reality and god/all/the devine especially.

I do not go to church, I do things that the fundamentalist Christians and Muslims say is a sin. I am angry sometimes and harmonious sometimes. I probably have a bigger ego than I should. I am not perfect but still evolving. I have especially strong feelings on bullying and cruelty to the weak/animals that is way above normal.

Religon is for the ones who are affraid of death/hell. Spirituality is for the people who have been thru hell and have been reborn.

Why do you think I am half-crazy? I began to realize some of the truths, and it overwhelms me. And yet...I have wrestled my epiphanies into their respective folders and filed them away to make room for more. That isn't to say I am ignoring them...I am simply fitting them all into the puzzle, one by one. And it's a struggle.

You say to beware going too deep into the rabbit hole...but that's the only way I'll ever know the whole story, and understand the universe and our role in it. Sometimes, to find the truth, you have to dive into some very dark places. If it is fear that keeps you from digging deeper, then that is all the more reason to keep going. True sanity, in my mind, can only be found by embracing the truth with all of its light and shadows.

You are not perfect. There is not one human being on this planet who is perfect. And we will never reach perfection unless we evolve. We can only reach the peak of our potential...but not perfection. Not as we are. ...If I am truly wise, I will declaim my knowledge and epiphanies? Nay. I will continue to share what I have realized. I won't say that I know everything, and I will not lord myself above others for understanding things that they do not, just as I ask them to respect me when they know more than I. But I will share what I have found.

Thank you for posting.

I have always hoped that I might have these 'powers'...it would be like the cheat sheet in the back of the book.

However, I think my own skepticism at my possible 'super-receptive abilities' kind of undermines the grandeur theory. I have no problem admitting I am intelligent; that's because I am. I will freely state that I am clever and wise; again, that's because I am.

But I will also state quite openly that I don't know everything, and that is why I am still searching. My point is that in stating I am wise and intelligent, is to remind other people that just as I don't know everything, they don't either. They were at my age once ( I am fairly young still, thought my younger years are swiftly retreating) and even after their own time, they can still learn from me.

I don't follow spiritualism for visions of grandeur and superiority. I follow spiritualism because I am sure if I dive deep enough, I'll find the diamond of truth. And that's when I'll show it to everyone, so they can join me in my quest for the greater knowledge.

. When you do find the diamond you might find out that most people around you is not really ready to hear your version of the thruth. You can try to hurry a souls evolution but it can resist because of fear or lazyness. I want to push for change but who am I to tell 6 billion people the right path as I see it. And my path will probably not be yours. And have I evolved enought after finding the diamond so that I can teach others to find their way. I am probably to egocentered yeet to be any good at helping others to question themselves so that they find the diamond inside. I do in some way follow spirituallity for grandeur and superiority. The grandeur and superiority of higher ideals. I am equal to all. None is below me and none is above me in value. Some have not evolved as far but will find their way in the end. One day they might know more than me and help me further. Competing on who will is first is counterproductive. Good luck. Namaste

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
reply to post by Balkan

 

I can not convince you that there is something to spirituality but being critical thinking and a bit careful about going down the rabbit hole is a good thing from my point of view. There is a buddist saying that when the student is ready the master appears. And yes I agree that I am not in sync with this planet/systems and people. From my point of view humans including myself are in fact more or less crazy. And I do think it is social conditioning that is the problem. Spirituality is for me about coming over that stage of social conditioning and realising something more. It is a WOW moment where everything makes sense in a way that is overwhelming. Some people need to be in a very bad place to be ready for the experiance. A year ago I would call you crazy if you said I would belive in god/all/the devine but it is kinda hard to ignore it when you get answers in your own way.

I am a loner on this planet by my own decision but have people all around me that want to spend time with me. I do not fit in but it is by choice. Fiting in is lowering my ideals to the social mold. If you are happy as you are keep doing what you want whitin reason. You have your own choices to make and from my point of view your own path. From my point of view those who really are wise will never tell you that they have the answers for you. I do not know anyone elses road/way/life/destiny and I only know some of my past. I know that when I die and gets the answers or part of the answers I will laught my head off the things I thought was true. Not only faith should be questioned according to me. I question all things we take for granted, reality and god/all/the devine especially.

I do not go to church, I do things that the fundamentalist Christians and Muslims say is a sin. I am angry sometimes and harmonious sometimes. I probably have a bigger ego than I should. I am not perfect but still evolving. I have especially strong feelings on bullying and cruelty to the weak/animals that is way above normal.

Religon is for the ones who are affraid of death/hell. Spirituality is for the people who have been thru hell and have been reborn.

Why do you think I am half-crazy? I began to realize some of the truths, and it overwhelms me. And yet...I have wrestled my epiphanies into their respective folders and filed them away to make room for more. That isn't to say I am ignoring them...I am simply fitting them all into the puzzle, one by one. And it's a struggle.

You say to beware going too deep into the rabbit hole...but that's the only way I'll ever know the whole story, and understand the universe and our role in it. Sometimes, to find the truth, you have to dive into some very dark places. If it is fear that keeps you from digging deeper, then that is all the more reason to keep going. True sanity, in my mind, can only be found by embracing the truth with all of its light and shadows.

You are not perfect. There is not one human being on this planet who is perfect. And we will never reach perfection unless we evolve. We can only reach the peak of our potential...but not perfection. Not as we are. ...If I am truly wise, I will declaim my knowledge and epiphanies? Nay. I will continue to share what I have realized. I won't say that I know everything, and I will not lord myself above others for understanding things that they do not, just as I ask them to respect me when they know more than I. But I will share what I have found.

Thank you for posting.

edit on CMondaypm404017f17America/Chicago16 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

From your post I think you have already seen to much of what you should see for you to not go forward and get all the pieces. There is no real fear for me after the WOW moment only uncomfortability. But I unfortunaly had to fall very deep before I was ready for the moment and the pieces where they should be. My mind in a way got a jolt that it will never forget and after seeing the whole picture as I should see it you can't unsee it. I hope you get an gentle awakeening. I do not know the thoughtpatterns you need to awakeen and the ones I had might be limiting you but if you want to know what the thoughts was in my aweekening then tell me and I will send them. Namaste