Israel vs. Iran

well... since Israel has been threatening Iran and Iran has threatened to retaliate, it looks like they be at war anyday now. If there is a war, what's your opinion on the outcome of the war? Please explain yourself.

there would be no war between our countries.

Israel would be victorious.

Their military is a very highly trained force and they are not constrained by the same Rules of Engagement the the U.S. military is.

It wouldn't be much of a war if they did have one.

They are constantly in combat situations unlike any other nation on Earth. there is no doubt in my mind that they would come out on top, very quickly.

As I have said in previous posts, if Isreal goes to war in Iran, it's only because the US cannot afford to enter into another war directly. It would be much easier for them to have Isreal instigate hostilities, thus giving the US justification for military strikes in Iran on the basis of protecting (their military client state) Isreal.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by sp23]

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Israel would be victorious.

Their military is a very highly trained force and they are not constrained by the same Rules of Engagement the the U.S. military is.

So what are you saying, they go in and make a skirmish line and kill everything that moves? Use gas and nukes and infantry blinders? Because that's pretty much the only stuff the US hasn't been doing lately.

It wouldn't be much of a war if they did have one.

They are constantly in combat situations unlike any other nation on Earth. there is no doubt in my mind that they would come out on top, very quickly.

Ok how is Israel going to drive across Iraq and setup shop at Iranian border and invade Iran? And who's going to pay for the war? The US?

Look at how Israel invaded Lebanon and what happened. That's what'd it'd be in Iran but worse.

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Israel would be victorious.

Their military is a very highly trained force and they are not constrained by the same Rules of Engagement the the U.S. military is.

So what are you saying, they go in and make a skirmish line and kill everything that moves? Use gas and nukes and infantry blinders? Because that's pretty much the only stuff the US hasn't been doing lately.

When the people of Iran (if this ever happens) knows that the Israeli's are on there way to invade their country, and they refuse to hide or run, then that is clear indication they want to fight. What happens in war when the enemy refuses to surrender? The consequences of failing to run, hide or surrender will rest entirely upon their shoulders!

It wouldn't be much of a war if they did have one.

They are constantly in combat situations unlike any other nation on Earth. there is no doubt in my mind that they would come out on top, very quickly.

Ok how is Israel going to drive across Iraq and setup shop at Iranian border and invade Iran? And who's going to pay for the war? The US?

With the permission of the U.S., Israel could just cross Iraq, (after getting past Jordan), and go into Iran without much difficulty. Of course Israel wouldn't really want to make a move without the U.S. giving them permission.

And to answer the question of who's going to pay for the war? The U.S. of course, who else would do it?

Look at how Israel invaded Lebanon and what happened. That's what'd it'd be in Iran but worse.

Israel has learned a lot since then. The lessons of war may be costly, but eventually it will be worth it for your survival.

[edit on 12/9/04 by Intelearthling]

So the US is going to pay $300 billion for Israel to invade Iran. Uh-huh.

How are Israeli supplies going to get through Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, when US troops aren't even safe to leave their own bases without being in convoy.

How are they going to keep Israel secure with the massive effort it would take to conventionally fight Iran.

How is the Israeli populace going to support invaded a country two doors over when they don't even have good consensus on colonists outside the original borders?

How is the population of Iraq, Iran, Egypt, and every other Muslim country going to react to the invasion of Iran by Israel.

It's completely illogical.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
So the US is going to pay $300 billion for Israel to invade Iran. Uh-huh.

How are Israeli supplies going to get through Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, when US troops aren't even safe to leave their own bases without being in convoy.

How are they going to keep Israel secure with the massive effort it would take to conventionally fight Iran.

How is the Israeli populace going to support invaded a country two doors over when they don't even have good consensus on colonists outside the original borders?

How is the population of Iraq, Iran, Egypt, and every other Muslim country going to react to the invasion of Iran by Israel.

It's completely illogical.

Nothing's illogical when you believe in yourself.

Look taibunsuu, I'll get back to this thread tomorrow. I'm getting pretty sleepy. Can't hardly keep my eyes open. This is no excuse. Would love to continue tonight, but I hope you understand. Gotta go.

Promise you. Tomorrow.

Isreal would win

They have a very large, well trained army, and a great airforce - all backed by US military hardware.

Plus if it went to WMDs they have at least a hundred nukes (probably more like 200)

At one level Persian, they already are. The Hezbollah that Israel are fighting are funded and equipped by Iran. www.debka.com...

Iran is trying to establish a "base" in Syria to use for attacks on Israel, Turkey, and Western Europe.

Originally posted by persian
there would be no war between our countries.

There will be no war against Iran by Israel.




Too bad geography is not taught in schools anymore.

In case you are still convinced, let's look at a few preliminary numbers:

Israeli GDP: purchasing power parity - $120.6 billion

Population fit for military service:

males age 15-49: 1,294,742
females age 15-49: 1,250,969
(Israel counts both sexes)

Iranian GDP: purchasing power parity - $477.8 billion

Population fit for military service

males age 15-49: 12,434,810 (2004 est.)

Iran has at minimum six times the number of troops that Israel has, four times the economy, and a massive land mass. The entire military and civilian population of Israel is HALF the number of Iranian males ages 15 - 49!

Now, tell me, in a realistic way, how Israel is going to be able to muster the manpower to go all the way across either Turkey, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, and invade Iran. Please, tell me, because this will be extremely hilarious.

Don't tell me something like "If you believe..." because guess what, when belief runs into reality too hard it ends up dead.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Now, tell me, in a realistic way, how Israel is going to be able to muster the manpower to go all the way across either Turkey, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, and invade Iran. Please, tell me, because this will be extremely hilarious.

First of all, why does Isreal have to be on the offensive? Second, they would have more purchasing power then Iran would do to US war funds. Thirdly, as I said, since Isreal would have air superiority and has nuclear superiority, massed land formations would be a very easy target to take out.

Isreals soldiers are much better trained and equiped. That coupled with air superiority would do the trick for them.

That being said, I agree with you in that there will be no war. I was responding to this as a hypothetical situation where military power was to be the main factor, not geopolitical situations and geography.

good post taibansuu. Israel can only win a long protracted war against Iran if its lapdog the United States was supporting it fully. Iran has a larger population, economy and plenty of young men willing to die for their nation (as proven in the Iran and Iraq war, those Iranians are incredibly brave).

If Iran got the upper hand Israel would just use its nukes to even up the odds. And have no doubt they wouldn't use them because the zionists will use any means to defend and ensure the continuity of the nation of Israel.

thanks,
drfunk

Originally posted by American Mad Man


First of all, why does Isreal have to be on the offensive? Second, they would have more purchasing power then Iran would do to US war funds. Thirdly, as I said, since Isreal would have air superiority and has nuclear superiority, massed land formations would be a very easy target to take out.

Well the prospect of Israel being on the offense was brought up by DJAghetto, and I'm responding to people who are saying in this thread that Israel could attack Iran, so that's what I'm posting about.

More purchasing power than Iran supplied by the US? Well look how difficult it was to get Congress to supply the war funding for the operations in Iraq right now. The US aid would come mostly in the form of materiale. Where would the hundreds and hundreds of billions come from? US assistance to Israel in 2003 in the form of cash was about 660 million dollars. Unfortunately, Iran would be getting aid, also.

Massed land formations are easy to take out with nukes. The only problem is that nukes are not politically popular around the world, and it would essentially make Israel the second country in the world to use nukes, and the first in an offensive tactical role. There would be no international support for Israel whatsoever, embargos against the country, and no tacit support from the US government if Israel used a nuke offensively on Iran. Besides that, look at the comparitive size of Israel and Iran and population density. How many more nukings do you think Iran can take compared to Israel? If Israel ever used a nuke first you are talking World War III.

Isreals soldiers are much better trained and equiped. That coupled with air superiority would do the trick for them.

How could they extend air superiority all the way to Iran? They do have better fighters, but the IAF is not infinite by any means and they are more than mortal. Irans fighters include F-14s, which is about the same generation as F-16s. Not to mention the fully effective air defenses of Iran. Losses would accumulate quickly.

That being said, I agree with you in that there will be no war. I was responding to this as a hypothetical situation where military power was to be the main factor, not geopolitical situations and geography.

Geopolitics and geography are two huge strategic considerations of warfare in all instances.

Enemy
Terrain
Weather

They are constantly in combat situations unlike any other nation on Earth.

Combat situation? You mean against stone thrower Palestinians?
Hmm let me see, your F16s against kids with stone hmm, ya you are right. This is called �Combat situation�.
Then ya, definitely Iran doesn�t have a chance with Israel

Originally posted by persian

They are constantly in combat situations unlike any other nation on Earth.

Combat situation? You mean against stone thrower Palestinians?
Hmm let me see, your F16s against kids with stone hmm, ya you are right. This is called �Combat situation�.
Then ya, definitely Iran doesn�t have a chance with Israel

No one remembers what it was like for Israel in Lebanon.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by taibunsuu]

The Israli army has US Planes, British tanks and training, and 40 plus years of constasnt warfare to hone their skills.

Israel wont invade iran. They'll bomb it into the ground but wont invade...

you mean like this?

err we are talkin Iran here and the fact its difficult to get ground troops there. Im saying its easier to attack Iran from the air.

Palestine is just a little closer.

(Besides the kid probably has a bag of C4 and the sooldier isnt taking any chances )

Originally posted by rustiswordz
The Israli army has US Planes, British tanks and training, and 40 plus years of constasnt warfare to hone their skills.

Israel wont invade iran. They'll bomb it into the ground but wont invade...

They have US planes, Israeli tanks and Israeli tank training.

They don't have 40 years of constant warfare, but wars in 1967, 1973, and 1982. The rest of their time is spent on counter-insurgency.

You can't quite bomb a country the size of Iran into the ground without air superiority and strategic bombers. Israel has neither. They have a fighter force that can be used for specific air-to-ground strikes, and no stealth fighters. Iran has plenty of anti-air and US planes including F-14s.