NASA Officially confirms: Cold Fusion(LENR) is REAL

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Thread closed. (j/k)

The premise of the thread has been completely debunked by the person it was based on. So... I don't see why not.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Arbitrageur

Thread closed. (j/k)

 

The premise of the thread has been completely debunked by the person it was based on. So... I don't see why not.

Not at all.

from that same article

it is my professional opinion that the production of excess energy has been demonstrated when the results of the last 20+ years of experimentation are evaluated. There has been a lot of work done in the past 20+ years. When considered in aggregate I believe excess power has been demonstrated.

Other than that, the article is pretty telling. He seems to have gotten a few more "uncomfotable" question about the subject than he would have liked, hence why he wrote it. Since all they really know is mainly based on Rossi E-Cat, there is no wonder why he don´t like such questions, since Rossi would never lend them a unit for "independent testing". Rossi fears they would disassemble it to find the secret catalyst. He is no fool. Without the patent he simply cannot do this.

Furthermore, their opinion is obviously based on the testing done by other people(such as the docs linked in this thread) as well as their own "public testing" performed along with Rossi(as you can see in the slides), and the Widom-Larsen theory(which is published in a peer-reviewed journal). Nonetheless, they believe it works. And that is all this thread is about.

New Radioshow with Rossi out today: www.e-catworld.com...

reply to post by NeoVain

Since all they really know is mainly based on Rossi E-Cat...

That's a bit of a stretch. Rossi came out a year ago, the Navy and other Government organizations have been doing this kind of research for decades.

Japan is another country that has been on the forefront of fusion/fission technology... Far longer than Rossi came up with his ecat.

And no one is going on anything he says, because he doesn't peer review and he leaves everything a mystery.

ossi fears they would disassemble it to find the secret catalyst. He is no fool.

Yes, right... That is why he claimed to build in a self-destruct mechanism.

as well as their own "public testing" performed along with Rossi

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Link it directly.

Nonetheless, they believe it works.

No. They do not believe the ecat works and they are continuing their research into LENR. As they have been doing for a number of years. This all came up a year ago in these forums when Rossi first came to light. No one at ATS is denying that there is LENR research going on.

However, that does not mean NASA or any other institution is ready to say LENR is a proven method of energy production.

If you finish reading the paragraph you quoted, you of course would have read:

hen considered in aggregate I believe excess power has been demonstrated. I did not say, reliable, useful, commercially viable, or controllable. If any of those other terms were applicable I would have used them instead. If anything, it is the lack of a single clear demonstration of reliable, useful, and controllable production of excess power that has held LENR research back.

reply to post by NeoVain


Congratulations my friend this and Arkens Post on the Rossi E-Cat may be the two greatest and most historically significant posts on ATS!

LOL at theses NASA guys scrambling to play catch up when Andrea Rossi has had a 1 megawatt plant working since October to the satisfaction of his customer.

And LOL even more at the flat earthers still whining for peer reviewed papers. Here's a news flash for you guys; RESULTS trump peer reviewed papers in stuffy orthodox scientific academia cults that are bought and paid for by energy cartels and their lap dog politicians.

Sailors knew for decades the earth was round before Columbus proclaimed it to the PTB of his time and the so called scientific experts were still calling him crazy even after several trips to and from America.

Tesla was portrayed as an eccentric crazy man even while he was inventing the foundation for our modern electrical world and is just now in the last several years barely starting to get the recognition he deserves and still the power brokers suppressed the greater parts of discoveries to ensure their continued profits from the status quo.

The Wright Brothers were soaring over their heads while orthodox scientific academic cultist proclaimed flying was impossible and that the Wrights were crazy... And on it goes...

In fact what significant discovery has been discovered by orthodox science? I am sure there is something but it seems the majority if not all the of great leaps forward have been pushed forward by the so called crazies and mad scientists outside the mainstream/orthodoxy and were ridiculed and even persecuted until it could no longer be denied. Thank god for the rebels or humanity might still be living in caves chucking make shift spears/sticks at each other!

And here we are again even with NASA generally considered part of the orthodox scientific community openly confirming on video "low energy nuclear reactions" as DEMONSTRATED are real (LENR) even though Rossi has a working unit since October and dozens of scientist confirming them since Pons & Fleischman in 1989 first announced it. And the NASA Scientist even describes a working unit for a home and what it will do.

Rossi is rumored to be in negotiations with Home Depot to release the first home units in the autumn of this year. And still the flat earthers are trying to deny it... I guess some things never change. Oh well let me just say to the flat earthers you know what you can do with you peer reviewed papers LOL! Sorry could not help myself... Now we can just ignore them like yapping little dogs cute but annoying ;-)

This is it folks its here this is the beginning of the end of the energy cartels. Don't get me wrong they will not go down without a fight I am sure they will try and get these ruled to dangerous or have to be licensed or cause a false shortage of nickel or something, anything to not lose their grip financially on controlling our energy. However the cats out of the bag the horses are out of the barn its too late to close the door now and no matter what they do it won't last. These are simple enough that people will build them in their garages eventually if they make them too expensive and they will create a black market for nickel if they try to make it scarce or hard to get just like drugs. They can't stop progress they may be able to slow it down a bit but the future is here and this is a historical time. It may not seem like it now but generations will look back on this time as a real blow for freedom and progress!

And you know what else. This is not the only technology that is coming out there is more! As the saying goes we are living in interesting and exciting times!

"Orthodox scientific academic cultists"

Thanks I have a new phrase

When did the "global warming" business begin?

Did it begin when Pons and Fleischamnn discovered cold fusion?

Is it possible that the government created this "global warming" hoax as a way to control cold dusion if it ever went public? Heat is the one by product of the cold fusion process. Will they use this as a means of taxing people to limit their energy usage and to obviously make money?


Another fun fact... Bob Lazar went public later the same year Pons and Fleischmann made cold fusion public. I definitely think they were part of a disinfo campaign to take people off the trail of cold fusion. Lazar discribed the cold fusion process of being very similar to Rossi's cold fusion only in lazar's supposed alien system you need the impossible to get on Earth element 115 rather than the ubiquitous nickel.


Another weird factoid.. not long after Pons and Fleischmann, someone named Randell Mills came out with another methof of getting excess energy from hydrogen. His company is called Blacklight power..watch this video and then look at the old Blacklight Power logo.. Blacklight power had military people on it's board of directors. I am wondering if it could have been a diversion away from Pons and Fleischmann.

www.youtube.com...

pesn.com...

reply to post by hawkiye

LOL at theses NASA guys scrambling to play catch up when Andrea Rossi has had a 1 megawatt plant working since October to the satisfaction of his customer.

NASA is playing catch up to no one. They have been working diligently years on scientific innovation and they have sound theory to back up their work.

Here's a news flash for you guys; RESULTS trump peer reviewed papers in stuffy orthodox scientific academia cults that are bought and paid for by energy cartels and their lap dog politicians.

Rossi has provided no results. Everything he has, and everything he has done could be done without a working model.

It could all be faked, in other words.

In fact what significant discovery has been discovered by orthodox science?

Discoveries are usually made by engineers or scientists. There is no such thing as "orthodox" or "unorthodox" science. If a discovery is made without proper theory to explain it, a scientific theory will be created after analyzing the results of repeated experiment.

And here we are again even with NASA generally considered part of the orthodox scientific community openly confirming on video "low energy nuclear reactions" as DEMONSTRATED are real (LENR) even though Rossi has a working unit since October and dozens of scientist confirming them since Pons & Fleischman in 1989 first announced it.

NASA confirms that there is an effect with LENR research that needs to be researched additionally. That's it.

And the NASA Scientist even describes a working unit for a home and what it will do.

NASA also talks about trips to other worlds light years away. As they have speculated about a great number of technologies. If you don't shoot for something, you can't have any goals to shoot for. Are any of their speculations going to come about tomorrow though? Some are just speculations.

Rossi is rumored to be in negotiations with Home Depot to release the first home units in the autumn of this year.

Rossi "claims" to be in talks with Home Depot. But that is his word, by his account. I could just as easily say that I have created some LENR device, call up a home depot corporate department and schedule and interview. It really means nothing.

Rossi selling anything to Home Depot is not realistic, for one, his machine is only a steam heater (by his account) at the moment.

And, he does not have detailed specifications of what his unit does.

Every calculation he has done sees to be different everytime...

If anyone's interested, New Energy Times is seeking confirmation on all these LENR's;

Jan. 15, 2012Jan. 15, 2012
LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index
I continue to receive mixed responses about the media attention I give to the Widom-Larsen theory of LENRs. Regardless, my confidence in that theory has not changed.

However, I have decided that it is both useful as well as fair to provide an opportunity to help present other LENR theories on the New Energy Times Web site.

Therefore, I have built portal pages for the following theories:

Bazhutov-Vereshkov Theory
Chubb (Scott) Theory
Chubb (Talbot) Theory
De Ninno Theory
Fisher Theory
Gareev Theory
Hagelstein Theory
Hora-Miley Theory
Kim-Zubarev Theory
Kirkinskii-Novikov Theory
Kozima Theory
Li Theory
Sinha-Meulenberg Theory
Szpak Theory
Takahashi Theory

You will find a link to each of these pages through the index page which is listed on the left-hand menu of the New Energy Times Web site under "LENR Theory Index."
If I am missing a theory in this index, please let me know. Note that I have omitted Randall Mills' theory because he does not associate his work with LENR.

I have notified (where possible) the authors of these theories. I have sent them e-mails and requested them to contribute with additional information so I may better inform the public about their theories.
But anyone can help out. Through the New Energy Times News Service, I am sending this message to nearly every LENR researcher in the world, to all the members of the CMNS e-mail list, as well as thousands of LENR fans worldwide.

Please have a look at each of the sections for each of theories. If you can help provide factual and useful information about any of these theories, please send it to me.

Please note, the purpose of these pages are to help promote the work of each theorist. The pages are not to be used to criticize the work of competing theorists.

Thank you for your help.
Steven B. Krivit
Senior Editor, New Energy Times
Editor-In-Chief, Wiley Nuclear Energy Encyclopedia
www.newenergytimes.com

Originally posted by NeoVain
from that same article

it is my professional opinion that the production of excess energy has been demonstrated when the results of the last 20+ years of experimentation are evaluated.

So we knew about this 20 years ago and NASA has nothing to add but a patent application? Again this only serves to debunk your own thread title...you are the best debunker in the thread of your own thread title.

By the way, these also generate excess heat, and they are already commercially available:



Like Rossi's E-cat demonstrations, they work for hours (the packaging claims 7+ hours).

Originally posted by NeoVain
Other than that, the article is pretty telling. He seems to have gotten a few more "uncomfotable" question about the subject than he would have liked, hence why he wrote it. Since all they really know is mainly based on Rossi E-Cat, there is no wonder why he don´t like such questions, since Rossi would never lend them a unit for "independent testing". Rossi fears they would disassemble it to find the secret catalyst. He is no fool. Without the patent he simply cannot do this.

NASA has been studying LENR for decades and Joe Zawodny has been studying the Widom-Larsen Theory since atleast 2006. The scientific concensus when Widom-Larsen published, was that it was the most well documented LENR theory, specifically because it relied on standard physics.

The Rossi claims rely on non standard physics, ie. it cannot be explained by any known physical process.

Furthermore, their opinion is obviously based on the testing done by other people(such as the docs linked in this thread) as well as their own "public testing" performed along with Rossi(as you can see in the slides), and the Widom-Larsen theory(which is published in a peer-reviewed journal). Nonetheless, they believe it works. And that is all this thread is about.

Zawodny has specifically written that Widom-Larsen explains ALL the evidence and is the first theory to not require new physics.

What you are doing is trying to lump WLT and Rossi into one, in order to use the NASA release specifically about WLT, in order to legitimate Rossi. I find that problematic and dishonest, for the reasons stated above, WLT relies on standard physics whereas Rossi seems to rey on Rossis own special physics.

reply to post by boncho

Rossi has provided no results. Everything he has, and everything he has done could be done without a working model. It could all be faked, in other words.

Except several prominent scientist observed it and examined it in action and confirmed it wasn't being faked. And don't ask for proof for the umpteenth time because its been given a dozen times with links and videos etc. LOL anyone hear little dogs yapping?

I have to wonder why you guys persist its over for you you are discredited. Is it just delusional denial that you can't bear the thought you are wrong? It must be because if you were disinfo agents you'd know it was over and futile to continue your nonsense. For cripe sake you now have a NASA Sceintist speaking on camera claiming it has been demonstrated even they know the denial is over so they are scrambling to try and make sure they do not appear on the wrong side of history and you're still trying to deny it LOL.... Oh well doesn't matter keep yapping for all the good it will do you. ;-)

reply to post by hawkiye

For cripe sake you now have a NASA Sceintist speaking on camera claiming it has been demonstrated even they know the denial is over so they are scrambling to try and make sure they do not appear on the wrong side of history and you're still trying to deny it LOL....

Actually, this is exactly what he said about Rossi:

There have been many attempts to twist the release of this video into NASA’s support for LENR or as proof that Rossi’s e-cat really works. Many extraordinary claims have been made in 2010. In my scientific opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I find a distinct absence of the latter.

So let me be very clear here. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.

And don't ask for proof for the umpteenth time because its been given a dozen times with links and videos etc. LOL anyone hear little dogs yapping?

The fact remains that the ecat is unproven. Links and videos to rubbish, and opinion pieces do not lend any credibility to his system.

The opinion of other engineers or scientists is far different than a replication by their hand. He so far, has only had opinions expressed about the ecat, as no independent replication has been done.

reply to post by boncho



Krivit wrote a good piece here to sum up most of the Rossi story over the past year.

There is still a lot to add, but he hits on most of the key points.

...for the people who choose not to follow blindly.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by NeoVain

 

Congratulations my friend this and Arkens Post on the Rossi E-Cat may be the two greatest and most historically significant posts on ATS!

LOL at theses NASA guys scrambling to play catch up when Andrea Rossi has had a 1 megawatt plant working since October to the satisfaction of his customer.

And LOL even more at the flat earthers still whining for peer reviewed papers. Here's a news flash for you guys; RESULTS trump peer reviewed papers in stuffy orthodox scientific academia cults that are bought and paid for by energy cartels and their lap dog politicians.

ha ha ha ja. If academic scientists were bought by energy cartels and politicians we would be making LOTS more money.

I agree, the RESULT doesn't have to come from a peer-reviewed journal, but it has to be equallly high quality and rigorous. For example, if Underwriter's Laboratory and the DOE certified this device for home use and gave it an Energy Star rating based on experiment, then that would be a good sign. If you 're not going to bother with peer-reviewed academic stuff (which publishes many things well before they are commercially viable), it isn't worth crap until it's proven commercially viable.

This means customers puttting it in production, after regulatory and independent industry certification.

Well?

Sailors knew for decades the earth was round before Columbus proclaimed it to the PTB of his time and the so called scientific experts were still calling him crazy even after several trips to and from America.

Let's try denying ignorance.

Fact: Anybody even moderately educated in antiquity (for Europe, this means Greece & Rome) knew the Earth was spherical. Observing the shape of the shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse makes it clear. And in fact, a Greek scientist even estimated the diameter of the Earth using experimental measurements.

Only ignorants thought otherwise. In Columbus's day everybody who mattered knew the planet was spherical, they just didn't know there was an exploitable continent in the middle which didn't have an existing, large population of militarily capable inhabitants.

Fact: Columbus was not trying to prove anything about the planet being round (no duh) but to find a new commercially feasible route to Asian trade partners. In truth, the scientists of the day were skeptical because their (correct) calculations of the Earth's size contradicted Columbus's "grant application" and would not have resulted in a successful journey in time & provisions. They may have been calling Columbus crazy if he insisted he had actually encountered India (the original one) and any assertion that the West Indies were anywhere close to India, which they are not.

Mean while Rossi's 1 megawatt E-cat unit has been up and running since October, Nasa scientists back peddle to try and get on the cold fusion bandwagon they claimed all but didn't exist not long ago, while idiots opine about academia cults... ruff ruff ruff... LOL

Originally posted by hawkiye
Mean while Rossi's 1 megawatt E-cat unit has been up and running since October

You don't know that. You are simply taking Rossi's claims at face value, without any supporting evidence.

Nasa scientists back peddle to try and get on the cold fusion bandwagon they claimed all but didn't exist not long ago

Joe Zawodny isn't backpedaling. He has been very vocal about his work since 2006. Do a google search, and you will find several published texts on WLT by Zawodny.

while idiots opine about academia cults... ruff ruff ruff... LOL

How the mighty shall fall. Bask in your selfimportance now, because if Rossi is exposed, you will find that the people you call 'idiots' will likely be commenting on every thread you make, pointing out your lack of civility and decorum.

reply to post by aaa2500


Swedish scientist paying Rossi a visit.


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by NeoVain


David Copperfield makes the Statue of Liberty disappear.

In other news Bumble Bees can't fly according to some scientific academia circles... LOL

www.sciencenews.org...

Originally posted by hawkiye
In other news Bumble Bees can't fly according to some scientific academia circles... LOL

www.sciencenews.org...

edit on 17-1-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

For goodness sake, did you even bother to read the article you posted?