Didn't Cry Hard Enough Over Kim Jong Il's death? Then Off To A Labor Camp With You!!

How can this (dis)information by the UK tabloid DaylyMail be independently verified?

Are there any alternative non-western sources for this?

One-sided reporting gets you my negative karma points, pal...

reply to post by Brasov


Try these:

Daily NK reports

NY Post

reply to post by Brasov


I would think that it would be next to impossible to get derogatory news out of North Korea. i know I'd hate to be a newsman there. One-sided reporting may be the only reporting possible.

But let's say that particular story is false. That doesn't change the underlying fact of the government's gross mistreatment of its citizens. It's not really a "worker's paradise." The problems remain, and I think the thread is doing a pretty good job discussing them.

North Korea is a very important issue and I'm glad he posted a conversation starter.

I mentioned on here at the time that the videos of people wailing were phoney. Every single person in an office stood up at their desks, their bodies convulsing in sobs - lol, it wasn't even close to convincing.

But - wow - think of the mentality behind this. It's absolutely bizarre. This is why I don't believe in a single common ancestor for humanity. There are some nations/peoples I simply refuse to believe I have any genetic connection to, literally.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
I mentioned on here at the time that the videos of people wailing were phoney. Every single person in an office stood up at their desks, their bodies convulsing in sobs - lol, it wasn't even close to convincing.

I don't recall seeing that thread and if I had I'm SURE my body would have been convulsing with laughter. Could their reaction have been any more staged? I'm sure I'm not the only one who simply cannot fathom living under those conditions - then again, that's not living, it's a controlled existence.

To Charles1952: Any North Korean reporter who would dare to put out anything derogatory about the government would be shot or sentenced to hard labor before they were able to put down the mic. Considering how tightly controlled everything is I'm positive that government hacks determine what will be reported, how it will be reported and when it will be reported. BTW, last I checked I was a she.

Originally posted by claireaudient

Daily NK reports

NY Post

Those are western outlets as well, so I conclude there's nothing from an independent part not actively involved in demonizing N.K.

Final veredict: B.S.

reply to post by Brasov


That's your opinion and of course you're entitled to it. If the story is true do you really think that any substantiating information would come from within NK? Honest question, no baiting.

Originally posted by claireaudient
If the story is true do you really think that any substantiating information would come from within NK? Honest question, no baiting.

That's a straw man.

I asked for independent not partisan sources, not North Korean ones.

reply to post by Brasov

Dear Brasov,

I am always the most confused fellow on ATS (and you're not helping that).

So far, we have at least one source saying it's true, and none saying it's false. At least, I don't think you have any evidence to show that it's false. For the time being, and for the purposes of this discussion, may we accept the truth of it?

Besides, isn't North Korea's wound self-inflicted? They have not published a rebuttal. Further, if they were allowing foreign reporters in, then we would know the truth more clearly.

It's not quite fair to ban reporters, and then deny a story because there aren't a lot of reporters covering it.

May we go back to the plight of the Norh Koreans under the rule of the new Beloved Leader?

Best wishes,
Charles 1952

Originally posted by charles1952

So far, we have at least one source saying it's true, and none saying it's false.

At least, I don't think you have any evidence to show that it's false.

You're inverting the "burden of proof" which is always on the party making a positive claim. Negatives can't be proven... it's impossible to prove that there's NOT life in Mars but if there's indeed life then it's possible to prove it by showing it.

Yours is an irrational way of thinking.

Originally posted by charles1952
For the time being, and for the purposes of this discussion, may we accept the truth of it?

No, my discussion line is about the demonizing, propagandistic nature of this fake news.

Only the U.S. dominated West hates N. Korea because it failed miserably at occupying it both militarily and financially, but the rest are pretty comfortable with them.

Originally posted by charles1952

May we go back to the plight of the Norh Koreans under the rule of the new Beloved Leader?

The plight of N.Korea is that the U.S. to this day is still officially at war with it. The U.S. never signed the armistice. The U.S has sabotaged several attempts by the Koreas to reunite.

The only purpose of the U.S. is to maintain the Koreas weak by preventing their reunification into a military and economic regional power.

Originally posted by Brasov

Originally posted by charles1952

May we go back to the plight of the Norh Koreans under the rule of the new Beloved Leader?

The plight of N.Korea is that the U.S. to this day is still officially at war with it. The U.S. never signed the armistice. The U.S has sabotaged several attempts by the Koreas to reunite.

The only purpose of the U.S. is to maintain the Koreas weak by preventing their reunification into a military and economic regional power.

edit on 12-1-2012 by Brasov because: (no reason given)

Can you site some credible sources that state that the U.S. sabotaged the unification of Korea? South Korea is a big economical power as it, especially when you compare it to the north. Maybe if Kim Jong Ill wasn't a complete lunatic, there would be a single Korea, but that's not the case.

reply to post by Brasov

Dear Brasov,

Thank you very much. You've pointed the way to the solution, and I'm grateful to you because I hadn't thought of it myself, I like new ideas.

But first, I'd like to clear away some brush.

You're the only one talking about proof. I don't expect "proof" from either side. I simply noted that neither North Korean news sources, or the government, have even bothered to deny it. I'm simply talking about the weight of evidence, don't get into other things, please.

No, my discussion line is about the demonizing, propagandistic nature of this fake news.

That would have made some sense if you had left out the word "fake." You're asserting it's falsity. Please show some evidence. Not proof, just evidence. Something beyond speculation.

Only the U.S. dominated West hates N. Korea because it failed miserably at occupying it both militarily and financially, but the rest are pretty comfortable with them.

Ok, provide your evidence that shows that's why the US hates North Korea. There are better reasons than yours.

The plight of N.Korea is that the U.S. is to this day officially at war with it. The U.S. never signed the armistice. The U.S has sabotaged severla attempts by the Koreas to reunite-

The only purpose of the U,S. is to maintain the Koreas weak by preventing their reunification into a military and economic regional power.

HERE WE ARE, THE ANSWER!!!! How can we solve the starvation, lack of education, repression, everything that makes North Korea one of the worst countries on earth? Just have North Korea surrender!

It solves everything. You say the North Korean's plight is that they are at war? Surrendering ends that plight. You want reunification? Surrendering makes that possible.

Three cheers for Brasov! The champion of the downtrodden. We'll call it the Brasov Solution. I'm excited by the prospect. Maybe we can feed this to the North Korean, Soviet, and Chinese press. Surely Hillary will take you up on your grand idea. Thanks again.

Best wishes.
Charles1952

Originally posted by TheSleepCreep
Can you site some credible sources that state that the U.S. sabotaged the unification of Korea?

For example, the military site au.af.mil refers you to the following document:

Man-Kil, Kang. The Meaning of National Liberation and Peace on Korean Peninsula. Korea Policy Review 2:6-9 September 2006.

on page 8 it states:

"In the early stage of the Korean War, the Korean Peninsula was nearly unified by the North Korea-China-Russia alliance. But the U.N. forces, led by the United States, which knew that the security of Japan could not be secured within U.S. domain, took part in the war and hindered the unification."

While the U.S. A.continues to militarily occupy the South and South Korean people tell them this:

Originally posted by TheSleepCreep
South Korea is a big economical power as it, especially when you compare it to the north.

I said economic AND military. N. Korea would bring the military part.

Uncle Meddler Sam is about World domination, so it wants full control of the Pacific as well. A reunited Korea is something Uncle Sam wants to avoid at all cost.

Originally posted by TheSleepCreep
Maybe if Kim Jong Ill wasn't a complete lunatic, there would be a single Korea, but that's not the case.

What evidence do you have of Kim Jong Ill being a lunatic? CNN "1 minute of hate" reports?

He didn't even run the country.

Originally posted by charles1952

HERE WE ARE, THE ANSWER!!!! How can we solve the starvation, lack of education, repression, everything that makes North Korea one of the worst countries on earth? Just have North Korea surrender!

It solves everything. You say the North Korean's plight is that they are at war? Surrendering ends that plight.

Koreans are not there to satisfy your whims or to take notice of what YOU believe their lifestyles should be.

If they wanted to "end that plight" (grossly mistrepresented by your Disney media for inbred retards) they would have already surrendered. Instead they choose to live free abiding by their OWN values - not yours - and kck U.S ass at every single opportunity.

Patience wins in the end. The U.S. is a failed empire losing influence in all continents as we speak. Soner tha later the U.S. will not be abole to financially support its military bases overseas-

Just look at South America... Ahmadinejad is closing multiple alliances iin your own backyard... you're a paper tiger and yll you do is WHINE.

Switching back to something a little more reasonable, what's a good (no, I take that back. There are no good solutions here, just less bad) solution to the suffering in North Korea?

Do we increase the pressure on them, making their lives more miserable, hoping for an overthrow of the government? Is the UN a useful tool here? Is there any way to encourage China to help?

I'm sad thinking of the death, squalor, and slavery that has been imposed on North Koreans by their dictators, but since Brother Brasov seems to be withdrawing support for his brilliant "surrender" idea, where to we go from here?

OK, maybe we don't do anything, but what's the result of that besides suffering? Do they attack the South? Do they go out in a blaze of glory and nuke everything they can reach? Do they keep selling WMDs around the world to attack the US by proxy? And where are they getting the nukes? China?

Originally posted by Manhater
Zombie Apocalypse has started.

Man is that brutal. No life. Live like robots.

COMING SOON TO YOUR LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD (THEATER)!

Seriously, the North Korean on-going experiment has a lot of lessons to teach other watchful governments around the world. --Governments of all types. Basically, given enough control over every aspect of an individuals life from minute to minute, day to day, start to finish, anyone in government can see the efficiency in that method. The goal of any government is compliance from its citizenry, methodologies may vary.