9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

I must admit that I too believe the investigation done on this thread has not been all-encompassing, but rather selective. I haven't looked at all of it honestly, as this is a huge thread, but from what I've seen, there are still a lot of questions and aspects of problems that are being overlooked. It is of my personal opinion that a plane did hit the Pentagon. However, I don't think it was a 757. It was a rather large plane, but from all the evidence I've seen personally, the difference between a large plane and a 757 is pretty evident when you look at the Pentagon. Something suspicious hits me as to the fate of the wings, if they were indeed wings of a 757 approaching at about a 45 degree angle. That's 177 feet, people. And the approach angle of 45 degrees is known by the angle of damage dealt going into the building.

You have voted billybob for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month. Good job billybob. Couldn't possibly be said better.

Some simulated (computer generated) and SOME real. I NEVER said that they COULDN'T track the hijacked planes. I said that it would be HARDER to track the hikacked planes without the transponders activated. Norad has the capability to tie into any radar system in the country, including all the ATC radars. It IS possible to track a plane without a transponder, it's just a lot harder to do. That's why if you actually read what the ATC guys said, they had INTERMITTANT contact with the hijacked planes once the transponders were shut off, UNTIL they were close to the targets and had come down in altitude.

the flight pash was a 360 the made a 360 around the pentagon this is bs no plane hit the pentagon where is the seat the people did you see war of the worlds i dont use a movie to prove a point but most cant think on there own they need to see some idea of what you are talking about. the part where the plane crashed in the house the pentagon should have looked like that . they pulls no plane out of the pentagon at any time they said the plane desentagrated.

Originally posted by Zaphod58 Some simulated (computer generated) and SOME real. I NEVER said that they COULDN'T track the hijacked planes. I said that it would be HARDER to track the hikacked planes without the transponders activated.

once again, you are looking away from the most relevent thing here. and that is that they were running 'terror drills' that were using the exact same scenario as the actual 'terror attacks'. the chances of this happening on the same day at the exact same time are NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. the chances of the exact same thing happening in london during their recent, 'terror attacks' are also NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE. someone actually did some quick estimates of the chances for london's scam to be genuine.... what are the chances of the terror drill being played out while the actual terror scenario plays out? PROBABILITY OF DRILL AND TERROR ATTACK COINCIDING BY CHANCE(london bombing) (10yr mean): One chance in 3,715,592,613,265,750,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Estimate of Grains of sand in the whole world: 7,500,000,000,000,000,000 the statistical analysis if you all think this is 'off topic', CON-gradualations! you've been indoctrinated into comartmentalised world! what are the chances of that happening on BOTH 911 AND 777? what are the chances of terror drills that are exact dupes of the actual attacks happening in two seperate countries within a four year period? i'll give you a hint. that really big number up there would get exponentially larger. in other words, so close to ZERO, that you'd have to be GOD to even visualise something that small. what are the chances of madrid(311) being 911 days after 911(which was 111 days before the new year)? what are the chances that 777 happened 444 days after 311? edited for xenochronic wit. [edit on 16-7-2005 by billybob]

Originally posted by INFOAGENT_X the flight pash was a 360 the made a 360 around the pentagon this is bs no plane hit the pentagon where is the seat the people did you see war of the worlds i dont use a movie to prove a point but most cant think on there own they need to see some idea of what you are talking about. the part where the plane crashed in the house the pentagon should have looked like that . they pulls no plane out of the pentagon at any time they said the plane desentagrated.

Have you ever seen pics of plane crashes? Planes that hit big hard objects, like mountains, and reinforced concrete buildings don't tend to survive in big pieces. There were plenty of eye witnesses to bodies being removed from the Pentagon. WHat do you want them to do, show pictures of the bodies all over the news? I've seen accident pictures where the only thing left of the plane were the wheels. Planes DO disintigrate on impact in most crashes.

The Pentagon is probally one of the most secure buildings on earth with top of the line security cameras everywhere, inside and out at a cost of millions a year . It just seems strange that the only visual evidence of a plane hitting the building are the few blurry images that were released to the public. Gas stations and 7/11's have better security camera systems and I bet the cost ( just guessing here) is less than a thousand per year! There are probally better quality videos of this tragic incident but they wont be released untill 2051 when it wont matter to anyone anymore.

Originally posted by mile359 The Pentagon is probally one of the most secure buildings on earth with top of the line security cameras everywhere, inside and out at a cost of millions a year . It just seems strange that the only visual evidence of a plane hitting the building are the few blurry images that were released to the public.

Any of you stop to think that perhaps the ability and field of view of those cameras is classified information?

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by mile359 The Pentagon is probally one of the most secure buildings on earth with top of the line security cameras everywhere, inside and out at a cost of millions a year . It just seems strange that the only visual evidence of a plane hitting the building are the few blurry images that were released to the public.

Any of you stop to think that perhaps the ability and field of view of those cameras is classified information?

Even the one from in the garage. Surely thats not classified? well until the FBI confiscated it.

Even the garage tapes may show things they don't want known about the building. Or it may be that most of the tapes don't show anything at all, so there's no reason to release them.

Originally posted by Zaphod58 Even the garage tapes may show things they don't want known about the building. Or it may be that most of the tapes don't show anything at all, so there's no reason to release them.

There's two flaws with that. 1. Many, many people drive and walk past the pentagon everyday so there should be nothing to worry about outside the building. 2. If they showed nothing, why not just show the video? Questions, questions, questions......

Many people walk past the Pentagon every day, but how many when there's a plane about to crash into it? I personally doubt that there are any defenses on the building, but what happens if there are? They aren't going to want to give out videos that show exactly what happens when the building is under attack.

HA Ha Judging by the hole in the Pentagon not much happens in defence when the building is under attack. Furthermore, the attack on the US government which is happening worldwide (due to their flaky story in general and the witholding of the video in particular) is surely far more serious for them than any supposed security risk due to possible military Pentagon defence gadgetry being seen on a garage video. . . . . unless of course that gadgetry just happened to be a military drone heading for the Pentagon. . . . [edit on 18-7-2005 by Roy Robinson Stewart]

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas The Turbo fan engine found at the pentagon site DID NOT MATCH ANY engines that Rolls Royce or Pratt and Witney made.

Has anyone managed to explain this away?

Originally posted by Zaphod58 Many people walk past the Pentagon every day, but how many when there's a plane about to crash into it?

Well from all the eyewitness account surely they would be able to see something like a reinforced concrete wall with some sort of high tech defense system, What exactly is it gonna show. The mainstream media bombarded everyone with video and photo shots of the WTC being hit? Whats the difference between the two, obviously nothing except the building design and structure. There is nothing secret about the pentagon itself, rather the information it contains.

I personally doubt that there are any defenses on the building, but what happens if there are? They aren't going to want to give out videos that show exactly what happens when the building is under attack.

Well if they wanted to shut the "conspiracy nuts" up and prove that a plane really did hit the pentagon. Why not just show the videos? Peace

911 is a proven case The actual method is always open to debate - we won't find that out until the downfall of the US Government and the opening of its vault of secrets Better not to perpetuate a wrangle with a circle of self-policing idiots trying to extend their fear-based policing to the rest of the herd, in collusion with the dogs of government-paid agents operating here 911 is a proven case - a Bush-backers Problem-Reaction-Solution event used to justify everything in the 'changed post-911 world' since then People who know this really shouldn't be wasting their time arguing the toss with know-nothings or government-sponsored 'know-it-alls' The London bombings still require more intensive investigations So if you're into this kind of thing, focus your attention there [edit on 18-7-2005 by dh] [edit on 18-7-2005 by dh]

While there are a lot of cameras at the Pentagon, I'm willing to bet that most of them were set to shoot parking lots, and VEHICLES, just like the one that was released. And there were probably only a few that actually caught anything at all. I really don't know why they haven't released anything, but there are any number of things that could be on the tapes they don't want to get out. There could be things that were graphic, or would be painful for the familes, or could compromise things about the Pentagon...... Just because the defenses, if any, didn't stop a 757, which by the way is NOT as easy as people seem to think, doesm't mean that you want to broadcast what they are, where they are, and how they work. They could be designed to stop smaller planes, or cruise missiles, or any number of smaller or deadlier threats than a 757. You don't go out and say "Well they didn't stop this threat, so let's show the world what they are so they know how to defeat them." You keep them hidden, and you strengthen them.

Originally posted by Zaphod58 While there are a lot of cameras at the Pentagon, I'm willing to bet that most of them were set to shoot parking lots, and VEHICLES, just like the one that was released. And there were probably only a few that actually caught anything at all. I really don't know why they haven't released anything, but there are any number of things that could be on the tapes they don't want to get out. There could be things that were graphic, or would be painful for the familes, or could compromise things about the Pentagon......

If there were security measures at the pathetagon wouldn't they have shown up on the security gate tape.???

Just because the defenses, if any, didn't stop a 757, which by the way is NOT as easy as people seem to think, doesm't mean that you want to broadcast what they are, where they are, and how they work. They could be designed to stop smaller planes, or cruise missiles, or any number of smaller or deadlier threats than a 757. You don't go out and say "Well they didn't stop this threat, so let's show the world what they are so they know how to defeat them." You keep them hidden, and you strengthen them.

Look I know as well as you do. They don't run over to garages and confiscate tapes for absolutley no reason. There were no security measures on the pentagon cause if there was that plane would have come down ALOT sooner. Hell even if it was a small plane or missile the defense system would still have to work from a distance away else its gonna have NO effect. That is unless it had some sort of zero point energy shield, sadly that just happened to fail on that day........geee what another coincidence. Stop defending the bloody government. You know they're wrong in what they are doing and have done. Removing evidence from one crime scene is bad enough but remove evidence from WTC and the pentagon is absurd. Why can you not face the music and say.............hey mr government we know what your doing, now F off. It really is that simple. Peace ps. Wasn't the US setup so the PEOPLE were in control of the government and not the other way round . Damn you should be demanding evidence from the government. [edit on 19/7/05 by Hunting Veritas]

Look all this talk about the release of security tapes is off topic for the most part, there could be 10K reasons why they would not wish them to be released. Could be that they don’t want personnel being identified or their vehicles. The same way that a bunch of web sites were shut down for showing photos of undercover federal agents about a year ago. Could be that there is something there that is secret that they do not wish to have publicly known. It’s the same way that you could actually get in trouble for releasing some photo’s taken at an airport or at a military base; it’s the way of secured installations. There would similarly be nothing to stop them from doctoring those photos and releasing them the same way you all claim they did this one, so if it was to hide what hit the building why not just pull out Photoshop and release the other tapes. That in itself tells me that there is more to the issue then just showing what hit the building. Besides if they did release them and it showed you the same thing you would still not believe it anyway, you would just accuse them of having doctored those photos too. As to the question about the engine... Aircraft can be ordered with various different engines on them same way they can order different tires for them. Not every 757 has the same type of engines on it. By way of example, Delta L1011’s are ordered with General Electric engines on them, and British Air only uses Rolls Royce engines on their L1011’s… As to what type of engines this had, that would require some research. First finding out who initially bought the plane, or if it was only ever owned by American Airlines. In other words did they buy that one from Eastern when it went bankrupt? Then you would have to find out what type of engines that airline ordered standard, then if they ever did an engine change on that aircraft since it was owned by American, and what engine types they put on it.

Originally posted by defcon5 Look all this talk about the release of security tapes is off topic for the most part, there could be 10K reasons why they would not wish them to be released. Could be that they don’t want personnel being identified or their vehicles. The same way that a bunch of web sites were shut down for showing photos of undercover federal agents about a year ago.

So what about all the people walking and driving around the pentagon, if they didn't personel identified. How about all the pictures taken right after the hit. That is a pointless theory.

Could be that there is something there that is secret that they do not wish to have publicly known. It’s the same way that you could actually get in trouble for releasing some photo’s taken at an airport or at a military base; it’s the way of secured installations.

Yeah, something sticks out though. What about the tourists taking pictures. So the biggest office building of its time is going to have security so high that you cannot take pics from the outside. Yes you are allowed to take pics of airplanes and airports. They are not secret installations and neither is the pentagon. Its the nerve centre for security in the US. Everyone visits it. Its not secret. Now on the other hand the mountain FEMA own and run its agency out of IS a secret installation.

There would similarly be nothing to stop them from doctoring those photos and releasing them the same way you all claim they did this one, so if it was to hide what hit the building why not just pull out Photoshop and release the other tapes. That in itself tells me that there is more to the issue then just showing what hit the building.

Right ok, fair enough. If they released EVERY video of the "aircraft" hitting the pentagon but before hand doctored them. I'm sure someone will be able to notice. If not we have to believe. I don't have a problem with that.

Besides if they did release them and it showed you the same thing you would still not believe it anyway, you would just accuse them of having doctored those photos too.

How would it show the same thing? There were cameras on the roof of the pentagon and the garage so thats 2 different angles. No way could it show the same images as a typical gate camera that has been edited.

As to the question about the engine... Aircraft can be ordered with various different engines on them same way they can order different tires for them. Not every 757 has the same type of engines on it. By way of example, Delta L1011’s are ordered with General Electric engines on them, and British Air only uses Rolls Royce engines on their L1011’s…

There were 2 engines 9ft in diameter. Where are they? Thats all I want to know. The "little" engine found at the pentagon crash was NOT recognised by pratt and witney who then past the request onto Rolls royce they also did not recognise the engine as a part for ANY AA plane made by them.

As to what type of engines this had, that would require some research. First finding out who initially bought the plane, or if it was only ever owned by American Airlines. In other words did they buy that one from Eastern when it went bankrupt?

I very much doubt it. Even if it was if it really did crash then we would see the two 9ftx12ft engines.

Then you would have to find out what type of engines that airline ordered standard, then if they ever did an engine change on that aircraft since it was owned by American, and what engine types they put on it.

It doesn't matter what engines or where they come from. In order for it to produce enough thrust to take off, the engines would need to be HUGE. These two huge engines disintegrated yet the small engine found at the pentagon survived. Wheres the sense in that? Flight 77def. worth a watch Peace