9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Originally posted by diggs Let's just say it's large and heavy enough to NOT disappear without a trace. Is a trace too much to ask for?

If by "trace" you mean cracks in the facade, broken windows, and debris littering the lawn,I'd say there was a trace. I wouldn't expect a hollow and mostly empty aluminum structure to leave much else after impact with a rock solid fortress.

Originally posted by Dansker If by "trace" you mean cracks in the facade, broken windows, and debris littering the lawn,I'd say there was a trace.

Let's raise the intelligence level a bit. Traces of the tail, not other parts of the plane.

Originally posted by diggs Traces of the tail, not other parts of the plane.

What makes you think that none of the debris seen in front of the Pentagon is from the tail? Do you at least acknowledge the damage to the facade and the broken windows, or do you insist on being deliberately obtuse? [edit on 4-6-2006 by Dansker]

Originally posted by Dansker What makes you think that none of the debris seen in front of the Pentagon is from the tail?

If the tail is in small pieces, it must of hit something real head to get that way and there would be obvious evidence of where it hit on the facade.

Do you at least acknowledge the damage to the facade and the broken windows

I never denied it.

Originally posted by diggs

Originally posted by Dansker What makes you think that none of the debris seen in front of the Pentagon is from the tail?

If the tail is in small pieces, it must of hit something real head to get that way and there would be obvious evidence of where it hit on the facade.

Do you at least acknowledge the damage to the facade and the broken windows

I never denied it.

But you don't view it as possible evidence of the vertical stabilizer hitting the facade?

Well.. either way whether it wsa a 757 or not that hit the pentagon, there is something that has always bothered me.. .WHAT IS UP with the trail leading up to the point of impact that you see in the aerial photo taken of the pentagon a few days before september 11/2001???

Originally posted by Dansker But you don't view it as possible evidence of the vertical stabilizer hitting the facade?

I continued our discussion here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

A couple of links I found while reseaching: www.aerospaceweb.org... www.aerospaceweb.org... One deals with identification of engine parts, the other on ground effect and the experiments of pilots to fly the path of AA77 in a simulator. Note: You'll need some scientific/aviation knowledge for the ground effects one. I'm unsure if CT's have scientific/aviation knowledge.

Im not sure what hit the pentagon but.. i don't belive it was a 747 i have not read all 160+ pages of this so i don't not know if this video has been posted already or not anyway here is video of what hit the pentagon oh, and did i mention that the whole 9/11 was done by the goverment not 'osma bin laden' i belive its the start of the nwo anyway here is the video click for video.... im not sure what it is you be the judge.

Originally posted by Dansker

Originally posted by diggs

Originally posted by Aotearoa 911research.wtc7.net...

That is definitely not a tail print! If it was, the vertical tail would have made the same imprint on the 3rd story.

You're right, that's not where the tail hit.

Well it's pretty important, tails just don't disappear.

Well, if it's not tail scoring, then what is it? Something caused that damage to the limestone facade. diggs posted a pic in the thread about what happened to 77's tail where there was a superimposition of a B757 on the Pentagon wall. Now obviously it has its landing gear down as the rear boarding steps are in place. I'm not going to search back through countless pages to get the landing gear height of a B757 but it looks like the tail (or at least part of it if it broke free) would at least partially impact the fourth floor. Edited for tags. Drat, they're still wrong. Oh well. [edit on 4-6-2006 by Aotearoa] [edit on 4-6-2006 by Aotearoa]

With landing gear down, the top of the tail is 44 feet 6 inches high.

Originally posted by Aotearoa diggs posted a pic in the thread about what happened to 77's tail where there was a superimposition of a B757 on the Pentagon wall. Now obviously it has its landing gear down as the rear boarding steps are in place. I'm not going to search back through countless pages to get the landing gear height of a B757 but it looks like the tail (or at least part of it if it broke free) would at least partially impact the fourth floor.

That pic is on the 1st page here: www.abovetopsecret.com... And I noticed that too, it would hit the 4th also. I only say "3rd" to be safe!

Thanks. Linking to other threads is not something I've mastered yet. All boards differ on how they do it.

Originally posted by diggs

Originally posted by Aotearoa diggs posted a pic in the thread about what happened to 77's tail where there was a superimposition of a B757 on the Pentagon wall. Now obviously it has its landing gear down as the rear boarding steps are in place. I'm not going to search back through countless pages to get the landing gear height of a B757 but it looks like the tail (or at least part of it if it broke free) would at least partially impact the fourth floor.

That pic is on the 1st page here: www.abovetopsecret.com... And I noticed that too, it would hit the 4th also. I only say "3rd" to be safe!

A Boeing 757 is about 42 feet from the bottom of the engines to the top of the vertical stabilizer. If the stabilizer was perfectly vertical on impact, the tip would barely have made it above the fourth floor slabs. If it was turned even slightly to the left, as the visible damage to the facede indicates, it would only seriously impact the third and the top of the second floor, causing minor damage to the fourth floor facade: [edit on 5-6-2006 by Dansker]

Originally posted by Aotearoa Well, if it's not tail scoring, then what is it? Something caused that damage to the limestone facade.

It's in a location where it couldn't have been made by the tail. I think it was most likely caused by the remains of the right engine and parts of the right wing hitting the Pentagon after having been deflected upwards by colliding with a huge diesel generator.

Originally posted by Dansker I think it was most likely caused by the remains of the right engine and parts of the right wing hitting the Pentagon after having been deflected upwards by colliding with a huge diesel generator.

Seems so, the place would be likely. The right wing and engine parts would be likely to fly there after the impact. [edit on 5-6-2006 by tuccy]

Originally posted by Dansker I think it was most likely caused by the remains of the right engine and parts of the right wing hitting the Pentagon after having been deflected upwards by colliding with a huge diesel generator.

Then where is the crumpled right engine? Or did it obliterate too?

Originally posted by diggs Then where is the crumpled right engine? Or did it obliterate too?

I would guess that some of it became part of the field of debris surounding the impact area while the rest entered the building through the shattered window. [edit on 5-6-2006 by Dansker]

Originally posted by Aotearoa A couple of links I found while reseaching: Note: You'll need some scientific/aviation knowledge for the ground effects one. I'm unsure if CT's have scientific/aviation knowledge.

I am surprised someone who believes the media conspiracy can do research. NOTE: I am a fomer Crew Chief in the Air Force and have a lot of scientific/aviation knowledge. Something esle you might want to lok up is compressablility, which beetween the 2 would have made a 757 almost impossible to fly and it would have been tearing itself apart. [edit on 5-6-2006 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1 NOTE: I am a fomer Crew Chief in the Air Force and have a lot of scientific/aviation knowledge. Something esle you might want to lok up is compressablility, which beetween the 2 would have made a 757 almost impossible to fly and it would have been tearing itself apart.

So how do you feel about this National Guard pilot who identified the plane as a 757 or 767, probably from American Airlines?

from "How we've changed" by Bob Von Sternberg, Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN); 9/11/2002 Lt. Col. Steve O'Brien started his day at the controls of a Minnesota National Guard C-130 cargo plane. He and his crew were heading back to the Twin Cities after moving military supplies around the Caribbean. About 9:30 a.m., O'Brien throttled the lumbering plane down a runway at Andrews Air Force Base, just southeast of the District of Columbia. "When we took off, we headed north and west and had a beautiful view of the Mall," he said. "I noticed this airplane up and to the left of us, at 10 o'clock. He was descending to our altitude, four miles away or so. That's awful close, so I was surprised he wasn't calling out to us. "It was like coming up to an intersection. When air traffic control asked me if we had him in sight, I told him that was an understatement - by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away. I said we had him in sight, then the controller asked me what kind of plane it was. "That caught us up, because normally they have all that information. The controller didn't seem to know anything." O'Brien reported that the plane was either a 757 or 767 and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. "They told us to turn and follow that aircraft - in 20-plus years of flying, I've never been asked to do something like that. With all of the East Coast haze, I had a hard time picking him out. "The next thing I saw was the fireball. It was huge. I told Washington the airplane has impacted the ground. Shook everyone up pretty good. I told them the approximate location was close to the Potomac. I figured he'd had some in-flight emergency and was trying to get back on the ground to Washington National. Suddenly, I could see the outline of the Pentagon. It was horrible. I told Washington this thing has impacted the west side of the Pentagon." 911research.wtc7.net...

[edit on 5-6-2006 by Dansker]