9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Originally posted by Wizy yeah, when it hit the buidling is when the plane 'hit the ground".

See Wizy, some point the engine would have to hit the ground: Let me know when you find where it hit.

Originally posted by diggs Bet you he says "eye witnesses"!

Eye witnesses are better than what you have, which is just conspiricy sites made by people who probably live on the west coast somewhere. No where close enough to do an investigation on their own. Besides eyewitnesses you have confirmation that a boeing (flight 77) was hijacked, they were tracking it on radar headed toward DC and in the DC area, and you also had a C-130 following it from above. Now in the split second before it crashed into the Pentagon they must have magically switched it with a....is missile still the latest theory?

Thats right, would there not be some sort of ATC log that tracked flight 77 into the pentagon? communications could be cut off, but the hijackers couldn't of "tricked" ATC. they got transponders that tell ATC where they are. I mean, to debunk everything, all they need to do was provide that info, right? Edit: I have taken courses in ATC, and am waiting to be hired by the FAA and head to Oklahoma City for training. Can't wait. I do know, you don't just "lose" a plane. Everything is logged and documented (i.e. flight plans). If a flight plan is violated, ATC is alerted immediately and takes action. There HAS to be some sort of log or documentation providing the entire path of flight 77. [edit on 2/6/06 by Mouth]

Originally posted by Mouth Thats right, would there not be some sort of ATC log that tracked flight 77 into the pentagon? communications could be cut off, but the hijackers couldn't of "tricked" ATC. they got transponders that tell ATC where they are. I mean, to debunk everything, all they need to do was provide that info, right?

They've turned the transpoder off and ATC active radars don't reach to the usual flight level AFAIK, above their range the only way to track the A/C for the ATC is its transpoder.

Originally posted by tuccy

Originally posted by Mouth Thats right, would there not be some sort of ATC log that tracked flight 77 into the pentagon? communications could be cut off, but the hijackers couldn't of "tricked" ATC. they got transponders that tell ATC where they are. I mean, to debunk everything, all they need to do was provide that info, right?

They've turned the transpoder off and ATC active radars don't reach to the usual flight level AFAIK, above their range the only way to track the A/C for the ATC is its transpoder.

Above their range? and what range is that? do you have proof that the transponder was turned off? Edit: I found an article that stated the transponders were turned off. However, A transponder aids ATC by giving them info about each plane, but ATC should still be able to track where it is going with radar. They won't know who you are if the Transponder is turned off, but they can still track you, especially if you are approaching the pentagon for impact. I am sorry, but I can't believe that just by turning off the transponders, they planes become ghosts. Radar is pretty sophisticated. In a related article, a plane with 9 passengers had transponder issues, and ATC couldnt easily track it. But they could still track it. source

FAA officials said the plane's transponder was turned off or disabled so that air traffic controllers couldn't easily track it on radar as it approached Atlanta air space, among the busiest in the world. The pilot didn't file a flight plan or talk to air traffic controllers, and the plane likely flew through low clouds and fog as it approached for landing.

flight level AFAIK, is that FL 180? cause if it is, there is still 17,999 feet of descent where it can still be tracked. the Washington D.C. ATC Center should have a log of flight 77's path during the last few minutes before impact. Explanation, conspiracy people? [edit on 2/6/06 by Mouth]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeirdEye witnesses are better than what you have, which is just conspiricy sites made by people who probably live on the west coast somewhere. No where close enough to do an investigation on their own.

That is quite a stupid statement. I'm sure they all live on the W.C. and not the E.C. Paleeze.

Besides eyewitnesses you have confirmation that a boeing (flight 77) was hijacked, they were tracking it on radar headed toward DC and in the DC area, and you also had a C-130 following it from above. Now in the split second before it crashed into the Pentagon they must have magically switched it with a....is missile still the latest theory?

No, they weren't tracking toward DC because it's radar tracking stopped at Ohio. The C-130 who also was at the PA crash? Amazing. Funny how a C-130 could take off from Andrews AFB before the Pentagon got hit, but a jetfighter couldn't. [edit on 2-6-2006 by diggs]

Originally posted by diggs No, they weren't tracking toward DC because it's radar tracking stopped at Ohio.

Can you please provide documentation for this?

Originally posted by Mouth

Originally posted by diggs No, they weren't tracking toward DC because it's radar tracking stopped at Ohio.

Can you please provide documentation for this?

77 was the ONLY one who couldn't be tracked all the way even though the rest of the planes had their transponders turned off too: a188.g.akamaitech.net... [edit on 2-6-2006 by diggs] [edit on 2-6-2006 by diggs]

That link does not say anything... just shows the flight paths. Please provide actual documentation that backs your claims that ATC lost total contact, including radar tracking, of flight 77.

Originally posted by diggs 77 was the ONLY one who couldn't be tracked all the way even though the rest of the planes had their transponders turned off too:

If that is true, than how can you argue about flight 93 if they fully tracked it? If they have logs of where flight 93 was at all times, then how can you refute it crashing? Edit: I know this is a different discussion, but you started that thread, and they are obviously related. [edit on 2/6/06 by Mouth]

Originally posted by Mouth That link does not say anything... just shows the flight paths. Please provide actual documentation that backs your claims that ATC lost total contact, including radar tracking, of flight 77.

Then why is there a dash line from Ohio back to DC? None of the other planes have them?

Originally posted by MouthIf that is true, than how can you argue about flight 93 if they fully tracked it? If they have logs of where flight 93 was at all times, then how can you refute it crashing?

Physical evidence.

Originally posted by diggs Then why is there a dash line from Ohio back to DC? None of the other planes have them?

That doesn't mean anything. Maybe it wasn't "as easy" to track. Your link does not provide the answer to my question. Even if they lost contact, it takes a good amount of time to fly from ohio to washington, D.C. They would have found it sometime before it crashed. Again, you still have not provided any documentation that states ATC lost TOTAL contact with flight 77.

Originally posted by diggs Physical evidence

OH!!! OK! Exactly! Edited for Grammar [edit on 2/6/06 by Mouth]

Originally posted by MouthThat doesn't mean anything. Maybe it wasn't "as easy" to track. Your link does not provide the answer to my question. Even if they lost contact, it takes a good amount of time to fly from ohio to washington, D.C. They would have found it sometime before it crashed. Again, you still have not provided any documentation that states ATC lost TOTAL contact with flight 77.

Not as easy to track??? Why was it easy for them to track it all the way to Ohio then? I think the map shows that they lost total contact with it or else they wouldn't have had to guess it's path back to DC (hence the dashed line.)

Originally posted by diggs Physical evidence

OH!!! OK! Exactly!

If a plane crashed in Shanksville, how do you know it was UA 93? And feel free to take a stab at answering the 7 questions of the Hunt the Boeing link I posted...if you dare.

Originally posted by Mouth

Also, if 77 crashed at the Pent, where did the tail section go?

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Some stupid map is not evidence. I can draw up a map just as easily. YOUR SITE says ABSOLUTELY nothing. show me an actual DOCUMENT where it give the time and position where flight 77 lost ALL contact. you can'y, can you?

Originally posted by MouthSome stupid map is not evidence. I can draw up a map just as easily. YOUR SITE says ABSOLUTELY nothing.

You call it stupid because it blows your theory out of the water.

show me an actual DOCUMENT where it give the time and position where flight 77 lost ALL contact. you can'y, can you?

Ok, here:

On the ground, air traffic controllers watching Flight 77's progress westward suddenly lost touch with the plane, which disappeared from radar screens and cut off radio contact. seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Will I be getting an apology from you?

Originally posted by diggs Also, if 77 crashed at the Pent, where did the tail section go?

Ok, The tail is not there. where were the tails from the WTC crashes? Possibly obliterated? Burned? You show me an example of an airliner going over 400 mph (or whatever the speed was) fly directly into a building and a tail was still visible, and maybe I will believe you. Why would whoever planned these attacks NOT use flight 77 and 93 for their targets, when they already hijacked them? So you are saying that these planes were hijacked, and then flown somewhere else, and a missle then hit the pentagon (or whatever), and all these government agencies had to take part in the cover up, blah blah blah. It just is a little far fetched for me. Where did the planes go then? How do you account for the missing passengers?

Originally posted by diggs

Originally posted by MouthSome stupid map is not evidence. I can draw up a map just as easily. YOUR SITE says ABSOLUTELY nothing.

You call it stupid because it blows your theory out of the water.

show me an actual DOCUMENT where it give the time and position where flight 77 lost ALL contact. you can'y, can you?

Ok, here:

On the ground, air traffic controllers watching Flight 77's progress westward suddenly lost touch with the plane, which disappeared from radar screens and cut off radio contact. seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Will I be getting an apology from you?

UMM no apologies at all. First off, where did they get this information? They did not give sources themselves. Oh, OK. So, we have to take what the media says as face value?? Even so, the airport a few miles away from the pentagon would notice a "UFO" about to hit the pentagon. Edit: grammar, god, my spelling sucks [edit on 2/6/06 by Mouth]

Originally posted by Mouth

Originally posted by diggs Also, if 77 crashed at the Pent, where did the tail section go?

Ok, The tail is not there. where were the tails from the WTC crashes? Possibly obliterated? Burned?

The tails from the WTC crashes left a noticeable gash in the WTC's facade. If 77's tail was obliterated, why didn't it leave a mark on the 3rd story wall?

Why would whoever planned these attacks NOT use flight 77 and 93 for their targets, when they already hijacked them? So you are saying that these planes were hijacked, and then flown somewhere else, and a missle then hit the pentagon (or whatever), and all these government agencies had to take part in the cover up, blah blah blah. It just is a little far fetched for me. Where did the planes go then? How do you account for the missing passengers?

How would I know why the wouldn't crash them, where they took them, and what they did with the passengers?