So what will happen when the power goes out? Will the canned food freeze?

I live in an area of the city where there are apartment buildings but it borders a light industrial park area where they have warehouses and about a mile away is where a lot of people shop for groceries because it is a wholesale food club, that you can shop at without being a member of the club and so the prices are cheap.

And I drive there even though its only a mile because I don't want to carry my groceries and water etc.
So I never paid much attention to the big stretch of warehouses just before it until the other day.

The trucks are old, although there are lots of them and all they say on them is 'Our Own' so I never knew what it was neither did I realize that all those buildings along there on that side of the road were the same company for half a mile. So then the other day I am driving past and I notice it is a food warehousing distributor for grocery stores in town.

And its not insulated. It is warehouses that look like they just have sheet metal sliding doors and they do so much volume there it must supply a good deal of the city.

And so I thought well, if TSHTF I sure won't go hungry, except, when the power goes out, if it is winter, all those cans and bottles will freeze. The bottles will break.
What happens to the cans? They will swell but will that cause them to spoil?

reply to post by Rocketman7


what is the average winter temp in your town ?

reply to post by Rocketman7


even if the can explodes all over the ground of the cold, collect the pieces and warm it up.
as long the temperature dont go up and down up and down.. then it will be bacteria heaven

Do you think WTSHTF in Summer at 95 degrees it would be better?

If i had to pick two..i'd say the S better hit the fan in winter...i think more stuff would be spoiled in summer.

reply to post by Rocketman7


If the can does "freeze" then yes it may explode, but it will most probably separate the can allowing air into it.
Nice thought of having a distributor close by.
If it is a large building then most likely you live close to a LARGE population center, do you think thousands of others have not thought of this same building?
Get your supplies now not later, it does not cost much and is very practical.
Why fight the world when you could just watch the fight from the safety of your couch?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

what is the average winter temp in your town ?

There are a few hardy palm trees that the city covers with burlap in the winter because it likes to pretend along with everyone else that we live in Hawaii. Southern Vancouver Island.
google map

So for a month or so at most there might be 2 inches of snow on the ground, although in the last 20 years we had one real bad winter where it got so cold the kiwi vines died, and with windchill, maybe hit 20 or 30 below F.

Still, even if, it is only one day, that it hits 10 degrees below zero, in a storm, and there is no heat in the buildings, there could be ice in the toilets and canned foods even in cupboards might freeze.

If a window is broken or something like that then moreso.

So I am thinking more like long term. What happens 2 years after when you go hunting for canned goods?

Canned goods keep maybe 10 years, and if there is lots of fallout then its the best choice for food gathering, but if it freezes, then maybe it won't be there for 10 years as plentiful as I thought.

What do you think?

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

If the can does "freeze" then yes it may explode, but it will most probably separate the can allowing air into it.
Nice thought of having a distributor close by.
If it is a large building then most likely you live close to a LARGE population center, do you think thousands of others have not thought of this same building?
Get your supplies now not later, it does not cost much and is very practical.
Why fight the world when you could just watch the fight from the safety of your couch?

I have maybe 6 months supply.

But unless its really an apocalypse, then food will be dsitributed fairly and no one here will fight in the streets.

This is Canada, and if someone anyone, desn't wait patiently in a checkout at a grocery store, they get shut down by the people there. Seriously I drive truck delivery and I have not heard a horn beep in over 15 years.
They just won't go that far here.

If the S does hit the fan, the food warehouses will probably be heavily guarded or the food will be shipped to some safer location. Most cans are not filled to the top anyway so I think there may be enough room for expansion if they become frozen. The glass jars or bottles may indeed break, so it might be a good idea to invest in some food grade plastic buckets.

If it happens in the dead of winter one of your first priorities is going to be to keep warm. You may be able to keep your food stock in a heated area, you are going to want to keep it close to you anyway for security reasons.

Originally posted by flexy123
Do you think WTSHTF in Summer at 95 degrees it would be better?

If i had to pick two..i'd say the S better hit the fan in winter...i think more stuff would be spoiled in summer.

edit on 12-1-2012 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)

Thats true but then should I procure the largest possible truck and back it up to that warehouse and get a hand truck lift and load pallets onto the 18 wheeler and then what?

Get a backhoe and bury it 10 feet underground? Thats a lot of work if it isn't needed. And I don't have a backhoe.

I'm hoping for planet of the apes. You know comet goes by people turn to human apes, and everywhere are canned goods a plenty.

I can always go get a steer or a deer or fish for meat, or chickens, I can pluck chickens I was raised on a farm.

But with radiation fallout, cans are a safer option.

go to south america. the powers that be declared the continent neutral territory where they can all go after shtf.

i'm not talking about presidents and senators. they're puppets.

Originally posted by Sparky63
If the S does hit the fan, the food warehouses will probably be heavily guarded or the food will be shipped to some safer location. Most cans are not filled to the top anyway so I think there may be enough room for expansion if they become frozen. The glass jars or bottles may indeed break, so it might be a good idea to invest in some food grade plastic buckets.

If it happens in the dead of winter one of your first priorities is going to be to keep warm. You may be able to keep your food stock in a heated area, you are going to want to keep it close to you anyway for security reasons.

Well everywhere here is elctric heat or you know boiler room heat from natural gas in apartments to baseboard radiators. Some houses have fire places of course, but they have people in them.

So I bought a down filled winter jacket from China for 100 bucks. That was a great idea. Its warm enough for the winter here for sure. And some boots. And I have a winter sleeping bag good for 10 below F.

But heat I am thinking get a truck if law and order has broken down, and well, keep it fueled.
Like a Brink's Truck. Throw my B.O.B. in there and I am set. Once I hit the warehouse and fill it with food water etc. Then maybe head out of town.

Before the city catches fire.

36 inches under the ground is the freeze line, just bury tubs of food, and cover them with straw. if its meat, the above ground temperature is perfect, no need for electricity

Originally posted by randomname
go to south america. the powers that be declared the continent neutral territory where they can all go after shtf.

i'm not talking about presidents and senators. they're puppets.

edit on 12-1-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Thats thousands of miles away and through malaria country.

Tropical diseases and that are something I am just not prepared to risk. One mosquito bite and its all over.

You fought your way through zombie infested America, and got bit by a mosquito in Central America.

Originally posted by Vandalour
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

even if the can explodes all over the ground of the cold, collect the pieces and warm it up.
as long the temperature dont go up and down up and down.. then it will be bacteria heaven

Well you know if there is an apocalypse of any kind, like where most of the people die, everywhere will be tons of stored food. And millions and millions of rats.

Simple Physics indicates that 0 degrees Celsius ice molecules will form . Most food contain some form of water. Unless cans have some new technology I am unaware of that keeps the contents slightly above 0 to prevent freezing.

Originally posted by freedomSlave
Simple Physics indicates that 0 degrees Celsius ice molecules will form . Most food contain some form of water. Unless cans have some new technology I am unaware of that keeps the contents slightly above 0 to prevent freezing.

So they freeze, the cans expand but may not split, but the coating inside the can gets ripped and exposes the contents to the tin or metal inside the can or lead in the seam, and it spoils.

Not all of it, but much of it. Thats my best guess but then I am not an expert.

Surely there has been studies.
I guess I could check google.

reply to post by Rocketman7


I'll stick a can of green beans in the freezer when I get home from work and see what happens. This will be a nice little test.
I don't think they have used lead for the seams in decades, at least in the US, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well this is what google turned up...

Frozen Cans
Cans frozen accidentally, such as those left in a car or basement in sub-zero temperatures, can present health problems. If the cans are merely swollen — and you are sure the swelling was caused by freezing — the cans may still be usable. Let the can thaw in the refrigerator before opening. If the product doesn't look and/or smell normal, throw it out. DO NOT TASTE IT! If the seams have rusted or burst, throw the cans out immediately, wrapping the burst can in plastic and disposing the food where no one, including animals can get it.

Somewhere else I read even if the can does not look like it burst, there might be microscopic seam leaks.

So you takes your chances.

Essentially what that means in Canada, is that canned food after the apocalypse will not be as plentiful as maybe most people might hope.

And in places in America where the temperature drops below freezing as well.

Maybe stored in a basement like a cold cellar they won't freeze, but most buildings will freeze through the first year the power is out.

Which is a shame really when you think about it because otherwise there might be plenty of food for survivors for 10 years or so. Canned goods have meat in them. I don't know about you but packs of dry noodles don't hit the spot like a can of beef stew.

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by Rocketman7

 

I'll stick a can of green beans in the freezer when I get home from work and see what happens. This will be a nice little test.
I don't think they have used lead for the seams in decades, at least in the US, please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are probably right about the lead. I will be looking for your reply when you freeze that can of beans. This should be interesting.

If someone has a can of corned beef and a can of tuna, that would be helpful too.

Based on further research I think it is best to do your best to not let cans freeze. If they do, then it is possible for micro organisms to contaminate the can, especially if the can is deformed. If you must consume a can that has been frozen, do so as soon as possible after the can is thawed out.
Survivors cant be too choosey, but you don't want to die of food poisoning.