A Message for all Australians

Originally posted by w3nd1g0
reply to post by Jace26

 

I actually dislike "merry old england" more than anywhere else in the world.

I hate our politicians and I consider our manarchy to be a complete waste of tax payers money so would suggest that you certianly don't attempt to go for a job as a profiler

What I am sick of is exactly what your displaying now... the blame game. You guys hardly have anything to do with us anymore at all short of having our queens head on your coins etc.... and a wee itty bitty United Kingdom flag as part of yours (its the union jack by the way symbolising england, scotland and wales don't you know) after all the English flag is red and white.

And even if you did ever go for indepence by vote.. there is ... yet again... a very good chance that your country men don't actually want it. I feel that most australians enjoy having ties and history with the UK..... and seeing how most of you over here are mainly decendants of the UK or European and not natural Aboriginals... it kinda makes sense that you stay in as part of the commonwealth... if not just so we can play against each other in the games as another member mentioned earlier.

The blame game? I'm not exactly sure what you mean since I didn't blame the UK for anything. All I am saying is WHY would Australians still want to be ruled by the British who have done injustices to BOTH AUSTRALIANS AND ABORIGINES. I don't understand why other Australians still want to keep a connection?
Oh and yes I know about the union flag which is why I called it that, if I were an uninformed Aussie I would have called it the Union Jack. I know the which parts belong to which "Kingdom".

So what if most Australians have heritage from the UK? So does America but they still dumped the British and made their own nation. On another note, I would like to know what you identify yourself as then? Since you say you dislike the UK but live in OZ.

i'm proud about us being a commonwealth country. id hate to see that wranger as a president.

if it comes up to vote for it, im saying no. and im in not in favour of changing the flag either or our song.

*blows raspberry's at whoever dis's me for it

love and harmony
Whateva

Originally posted by Whateva69
i'm proud about us being a commonwealth country. id hate to see that wranger as a president.

if it comes up to vote for it, im saying no. and im in not in favour of changing the flag either or our song.

*blows raspberry's at whoever dis's me for it

love and harmony
Whateva

All I can say to you is that you are not an Australian if thats how you feel. If you actually read some history you wouldn't want the Union flag in the corner of our British Blue Ensign (which is the Australian flags official name) and you most definately wouldn't want to keep a foreign monarch as our head of state.

However, I do agree with you about Julia and Abbott, I trust neither of them with handling the nations current constitution.
The British Blue Ensign flag is not Australian, it was never Australian, in 1901 the British chose the flag for us so we never had a choice. The only true Australian flag is the Eureka flag. Also in 1901 it was recieved VERY negatively as many called it non representative of Australia.

You however, are wrong, Australia will become a republic and our flag will be changed like it or not. The ageing population only proves this more as the pensioners die off the chance at a republic is ever increasing. And finally, when Charles becomes King it will be the final nail in the coffin as he is extremely unpopular.

This kind of a superficial issue is mean nothing proposition,

Of much greater importance is the question of having a government that is owned and controlled by the masses and not by exteremly powerful and influential elite.

You can call the country anything you like and have any flag you like but it means nothing if it does'nt change anything about the freedom of the people, they way tax is collected and spent then it means nothing at all.

I'm sorry but you have missed the boat completely on this one.

reply to post by Jace26


Charles won't be king, it will be William.

As for the Eureka flag, seems a bit too Victorian for my liking.

A republic flag should probably include aspects of the Aboriginal flag if you ask me.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Jace26

 

Charles won't be king, it will be William.

As for the Eureka flag, seems a bit too Victorian for my liking.

A republic flag should probably include aspects of the Aboriginal flag if you ask me.

Actually Charles is the next in line to the throne, unless you think he will die before his mother which is possible but not entirely plausible.

If you don't want the Eureka flag then what would you want? All of the ideas put forth by AusFlag are, lets face it, complete crap. While I support Aborigines being recognized in the constitution, I don't for the flag. Simply because it would be ugly, black on blue is poor flag design.
But if there was a really good design that included the Aborigines and it worked well, I'd give it a chance.
Anyway what would your suggestion be of a new flag?

reply to post by Jace26


We'll see, if the royal family is smart William is the man for the job.

As for the flag meh I dunno, how about the Boxing Kangaroo?

reply to post by Chadwickus


The boxing kangaroo
You can't be serious. That is cultural cringe to the max

History of the Australian flag

OK read that and tell me that its not Aussie. Aussies designed it and not just any Aussies, the you and me kinda Aussies. well me any way, i don't know anything about you.

love and harmony
Whateva

reply to post by Whateva69


Sigh, another delued "Australian".
The BRITISH BLUE ENSIGN which is its proper name not the Australian flag was designed by Australians yes, but the design had to meet specific British standards with the inclusion of the Union flag. After they had found an appropiate design it was then sent to the UK to be confirmed.
So in reality we had to make a flag that would suit British tastes and not of our own. When the flag was first unveiled in 1901 it was considered unrepresentative of Australia.
Take a look at the colonial flags of Australia then compare them with the current day British Blue Ensign and you will realise just how ridiculous it looks.
Canada changed their ugly colonial flag in the 60s and they haven't looked back. Why do you insist something that is unrepresentative of this country still burden us. Our identity and culture has suffered because the current flag is weak as a unifying symbol. Canadas culture and identity on the other hand has boomed and they have little to no cultural cringe now. If you don't want to be a republic then thats fine but at least show some support for an Australian flag that we can actually call Australian.

reply to post by Jace26


listen here wingnut, your making me grrrr calling me names...so not nice

I'm a proud Aussie Thank You very much.

I know where im from and i know how i got here, 1 grandmother came here to teach how to use the singer sewing machine, 1 grandfather and 1 grandmother came from convict familys, my other grandfathers family originally came from France, the father of my children is Aboriginal, my 2nd husbands family were church builders from Germany
and his mothers family escaped Belgium during WW2.

and god knows what other blood runs through my entire family. And after all that yes i love my Aussie flag the way it is. history, blood splatter, mud, gold you name it about Australia right down to god damn footballs, meat pies, kangaroos and bloody Holden cars.

My grandfather built the Burma flippin railway as a POW you know what that is? my husbands in the army my brother is in the navy, one of my grandfathers was a bloody army instructor another was RAAF, 1 grandmother spent the entire WW2 in a bloody cupboard eavesdropping on messages, has your family lost any blood for this red earth your standing on and calling home?

no one will ever change my mind, though cudos to you for tryin.

love and harmony
Whateva

I notice that Australians are very vocal about how patriotic they are and how proud they are of their country, the constant need to do this just says to me that the Aussies are somehow insecure with their national identities, so no wonder people are feeling so strongly about the flag, it only confirms what I suspect about the insecurity and the need to continually reinforce their patriotism upon others and themselves.

As usual I could be wrong and I do quite like almost all Aussies I've met, a lot have character and like a good laugh.

reply to post by Hawkwind.

We are a colourful bunch hey
I'd like to see that bloke above me say what hes sayin to a mob of diggers.

love and harmony
Whateva

Originally posted by Whateva69
reply to post by Hawkwind.

 

We are a colourful bunch hey

I'd like to see that bloke above me say what hes sayin to a mob of diggers.

love and harmony
Whateva

lol yup.. you hit the nail on the head with that last comment.

I love australia day over here... everyone emerges with xxxx and rumbo's and wearing the australian flag. its uber patriotism and i think it should be upheld and praised.. as should your boys in the military.

i think being proud of your country is one of the most important free comforts a country should provide its people... and australia nails it with sports and national pride every time.

and i'll say again.. im an englishman but never felt any pride for my country hence moving and emmigrating to australia.... a country i can be proud of living in.

I've shown this thread to a few of my aussie mates and they are all with you on this one.... but unfortunately there will always be people out there ready to flame you for not agreeing with their stupid ideas

reply to post by Whateva69


While thats all very nice about how Australian you are, but it still gives no reason for wanting to keep the British Blue Ensign. I'm very proud to be Australian but I refuse to hold up the current flag it does not represent me, I have no heritage from the UK but besides that, we aren't under their control anymore. So I say its time to finally raise a flag for ourselves.

reply to post by Hawkwind.


I couldn't agree more with what you just said, and the reason why they need to show others just how Australian they are is because every Australian feels insecure about their place in the world. We always have and unless we take our future into our own hands it will continue.
EUREKA FLAG FOR AUSTRALIA.
VIVA LA REPUBLIC

Change our flag? Change our flag?? Far too many fine men and women died under that beautiful flag to ever even contemplate changing it. A president? A president?? I swore my oath to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 11 AND her successors, depending upon your nationality and age you may well have done the same.

Any Australian who swore that oath and now desires a republic is, in my opinion, unfit to call themselves Australian and as such I urge them to relocate, marry, gain a new citizenship and give their alleged allegiance to another nation.

An oath is forever.

Regards,

Jarrah.

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
I notice that Australians are very vocal about how patriotic they are and how proud they are of their country, the constant need to do this just says to me that the Aussies are somehow insecure with their national identities, so no wonder people are feeling so strongly about the flag, it only confirms what I suspect about the insecurity and the need to continually reinforce their patriotism upon others and themselves.

As usual I could be wrong and I do quite like almost all Aussies I've met, a lot have character and like a good laugh.

This is a very astute comment, and very true, in my humble opinion...

The sad reality is that, like the US, Australia has a shameful and dark story, which...errr...5th and 6th generation walk-ins find a bit hard to admit the place was stolen (specifically, those descended from the landed gentry)...this psychological 'twitch' will take generations to work itself out.
The 'debate' (if that is what it could be called...har har) will be settled when the jingoistic, cringe element will have become a tad more worldly in thier outlook.

The 'vocal' aspect can be summed up by the adage of '...empty pots making the most sound'.

I've lived here most of my life, and have found the 'Australian', complacent and ready to blame evey one else for thier distinct lack of...how could I say this...intelligence!? This is not to say that many prominent Australians are not intelligent, but, the education system favours the well-off, just like...surprise, surprise...UK. An 'almost' class system.
Many brilliant and ground-breaking inventions/discoveries have been ignored and sent overseas because of the failure of men/women in high places to notice the worth of same (refer to the intelligence mentioned above).

Most 'Australians', you will find, are 'patriotic' about the land (interestingly similar to the indigenous original inhabitants)...it is beautiful...all the more reason to claim it in ownership, remove the ball and chain of the British Empire, and trash the Union Jack.

Akushla

Originally posted by Whateva69
reply to post by Hawkwind.

 

We are a colourful bunch hey

I'd like to see that bloke above me say what hes sayin to a mob of diggers.

love and harmony
Whateva

Here's something that would definitely get me punched in the face, then.

It is nothing other than an appeal to emotionalism, to refer to contemporary military as "diggers." That term was applied to soldiers from a particular campaign, during WW1, because of a need to dig trenches during it. As such, it is inaccurate to use the term with contemporary soldiers, if trench digging is not something they have done, or need to do, as part of their own duties.

Said practice is engaged in, in order to associate contemporary soldiers, who primarily work as mercenaries, preventing the successful revolution of foreign nationals who are being exploited by corporations, and thus actually reducing other people's freedom, with an earlier group who were more genuinely concerned (at least in their own minds) with the freedom of Australian citizens, in the minds of the public.

It is therefore also an attempt to associate conflicts that are in no way remotely justifiable, with an earlier conflict whose justification is somewhat more debatable, with the intent that the public will therefore assume the same level of justifiability in both.

Originally posted by JARRAH
Change our flag? Change our flag?? Far too many fine men and women died under that beautiful flag to ever even contemplate changing it. A president? A president?? I swore my oath to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 11 AND her successors, depending upon your nationality and age you may well have done the same.

Any Australian who swore that oath and now desires a republic is, in my opinion, unfit to call themselves Australian and as such I urge them to relocate, marry, gain a new citizenship and give their alleged allegiance to another nation.

An oath is forever.

Regards,

Jarrah.

No your wrong, the current flag was not official until 1954. Australians fought under British command during the world wars and fought under the union flag. The first war in which Australians fought under the current flag was in the Vietnam war.

I never swore oath to the queen because I was born here, and raised in a very "Australian" household. You on the other hand sound like another British migrant who still upholds the values of an outdated system.
Shame on you for wanting to keep the union flag in the upper left corner.
All real Australians would agree with me when I say bring on a republic, abolish the monarchy, and raise a complete Australian flag.