Deputy Leader of UK calls Scots Extremists

Originally posted by bigyin
According to Nick Clegg (who ?) anyone who supports the idea of an Independant Scotland is an extremist.

I don't see myself as an extremist, I have been a card carrying member of the SNP for the past 30 years and have always called for an independent Scotland. For years I was in a minority in Scotland as most folk voted Labour. But for the past few years now the SNP has far and away been the most popular political party in Scotland.

Therefore Nick Cleg is calling the majority of Scots extremists.

The guy is a buffoon and totally clueless.

Methinks they are getting deparate.

Methinks you have got confused. he said anyone supporting independance is an "extremist", not everyone who voted SNP. The SNP got into power for a variety of reasons, least of which is independance. I think their social policies of giving stuff away coupled with the piss poor performance of Labour and the Tories in Scotland are what made everyone vote SNP.

Current polls have the independance vote firmly in the "No" camp, despite what the Highlanders feel. If you start to break it down into greater deveolved powers, mind you, it becomes less clear cut, but full on independance is not desired by the majority.

Originally posted by jrmcleod
Was waiting for this type of ignorant post...and as expected its from an Englishman...

Hmm, nice to see bigtry and closet racism doesn't have anything to do with your thought processes here...

Originally posted by jrmcleod
You clearly have no idea...if Scotland becomes independent, which we will (thank the lord), we will be entitled to around 90% of the oil fields in the North Sea, let alone the Atlantic fields. With Scotland being the leading country for renewable energy in Tidal and wave, we will also capture that business. We will be allowed to dictate our own corporation taxes too.

Not even remotely true, but often peddled by SNP supporters to show Scotland should be like Kuwait if it wasn;t for us dastardly English.. Now, I have over the years availed myself of actual facts, done the leg work, looked at budget statements etc and can take a more practical view on this.

Firstly, this notion that 90% of the Oil is Scottish is ludicrous and is in fact you simply saying 90% in order to make it sound like lots, when it isn't based on any actual fact. If you go by UN standards for border delineation, then between 25-50% of the Oil is actual within English maritime boundaries, depending on if you use the geological standard or the average boundary standard.

Also, even if you tally up ALL the total revenue since 1970 for North Sea oil and then add up the amount of money sent North from English taxpayers to fund various Scottish endeavours, you still don't break even. At it's height, North Sea oil generated little over £15 Billion a year for the Treasury and not all of that comes from so called "Scottish" oil.

Also, don't forget that England has some massive shale gas reserves we're just starting to exploit.

And, finally, lets not forget the UK treasury bailing out RBS and HBOS which, if Scotland had been independant would have broken Scotland completely and you would be at the whim of EU technocrats.

Originally posted by jrmcleod
So along with England losing a hell of a lot of oil, they will also lose a lot of companies who will relocate, lose the renewable energy sector and that brilliant idea of £2,000,000,000 per year increase in North Sea Oil tax introduced by Mr Osbourne.

Again, not even close to the truth. Companies are actually holding off investing in Scotland because of this "independance" nonsense.

Originally posted by jrmcleod
You guys down there think that we are subsidised by you lot but what you fail to see is that without the business generated through oil and energy, you lot have NOTHING...

England will feel the pinch far worse than Scotland will, trust me... [/quote

Utter bollocks. England and the rest of the UK has a damned site more going for it than depleted North Sea oil reserves. For 300 years, Scotland has been subsidised and you guys often forget it was YOU you requested the Union because your country went bankrupt trying to start a colonial Empire and you wanted English Gold to bail you out. The SNP forget this though and paint the picture of Conquest, which is total crap.

Bottom line is, Scotland and England have been better together than apart, but vested interests and blinkered politicians pandering to thinly veiled racism have pulled the wool over your eyes. But, feel free and vote for it if that's what you want, but don't cry when you realise Salmond was selling you crap and calling it gold.

reply to post by bigyin


Clegg is a complete arse and an utter twat.

But don't judge all Englishmen by idiot's like him.....just as we shouldn't judge all Scots on clowns like Alex Salmond.

But for the past few years now the SNP has far and away been the most popular political party in Scotland.

Therefore Nick Cleg is calling the majority of Scots extremists.

The SNP may have been the biggest single party in recent elections but they have never accounted for the majority of votes cast in any election let alone the whole of the Scottish electorate - as such the majority of Scots are NOT necessarily pro independance.

Alex Salmond and the SNP are a one-trick pony and offer nothing of substance apart from appealing to the romantic Celtic nature with promises of an imaginary idyllic Scotland free from English tyranny.
The truth would be something far worse - Scotland will get swallowed up by the monster that is the EU.
If you want to see Scotland's future under Salmond and the SNP look no further than Belgium, a country that in reality no longer exists as a seperate entity.

I agree that radical parliamentary and electoral reform is urgently required throughout the UK.

Personally I think the party political system is out dated, unrepresentative, lacks accountability and is far too rigid.
Amongst other things we need more referendums on both local and national issues, the power of recall, inceased devolution to all the regions - including parts of England and the implementation of some sort of Federal system akin to Switzerland etc.

There is a bond that ties the nations of the UK together - we should concentrate on that which unites us rather than that which divides us.

Total independance would do no-one any favours at all.

As a Scot I think the sooner we have a referendum and put this issue to bed for another generation the better.

An independent Scotland would be a total disaster. If it had happened in the early 70s maybe, with 3 decades of oil money to invest and some remaining industry, but not now. The oil in the North Sea is on a downward trend and anybody thinking that you can base an economy on wind/wave power is smoking crack.

In the end scots will vote with their wallets and the union will persevere. The popularity of the SNP is due to the lack of another alternative to Labour up north (the Tories are too hated to ever recover). The SNP plan is to cause as much north/south friction as possible in the next few years then try and swing the referendum. They don't want an honest debate now as they can't win it on merit.

If there is a referendum and the majority of the Scottish voters vote for the end of the union then that is fine. I, however personally believe that the majority will vote against Independence.

That is why Cameron has attempted to put an 18 month deadline on any vote, to give Salmond as little time as possible to win round the Scottish voter.

reply to post by dunc4


I live in North East England mate....and guess what - we've been getting screwed over by London far more than Scotland ever has.

The thing is - we all have, and will continue to until we demand reform and change which hands true power and influence to the people, something we've never really had.

"And, finally, lets not forget the UK treasury bailing out RBS and HBOS which, if Scotland had been independant would have broken Scotland completely and you would be at the whim of EU technocrats."

I usually disagree with everything Stu has to say about topics such as the royal family, but today, he's actually come through for me....good work, mason!

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by jrmcleod

 

Scottish independence is doomed to failure. Im English and i love the Union (all parts). However, this issue will not go away. I kind of want Scotland to get independence now so when it doesn't work we can welcome you back to the fold and finally put the issue to bed.

Regarding the oil though, if Scotland does get independence, do you really think Westminster will just roll over and give you the oil?

Back to the topic, just another silly comment from a silly politician - Cameron must think it's great at the moment with opposition like Clegg (i know they are in coalition but still from opposing parties) and Milliband (total joke). That said, you can't be much better served up in Scotland if Salmond is doing so well!

edit on 9-1-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)

I'm afraid it wont be Westminster's choice as to whether they roll over or not. The waters WILL be declared Scottish and we have far more right to them since we have operated them since their founding.

The matter would be solved in the supreme court i'm sure, and the location of most of the fields are in Scottish waters.

Originally posted by TheUnusualSuspect
"And, finally, lets not forget the UK treasury bailing out RBS and HBOS which, if Scotland had been independant would have broken Scotland completely and you would be at the whim of EU technocrats."

I usually disagree with everything Stu has to say about topics such as the royal family, but today, he's actually come through for me....good work, mason!

Thats presuming Scotland were in the same state as England if we were independent. You cant assume to think RBS and HBOS would fail in a circumstance that is pure speculation.

Originally posted by justwokeupand anybody thinking that you can base an economy on wind/wave power is smoking crack.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by boaby_phet
reply to post by bigyin

 

That would be the case if everybody in scotland thought independence would be a good idea. Im scottish and i DONT think independence is a good idea at all ...

The SNP have used the gimmick of independence for scotland to get voted in, it will never happen as it would never work, we would end up like ireland or greece and be done over by the european banks!

Also, many scottish people i know agree that an independent scotland is not the way forward, esspecialy at this point in time.

To call independence supporters extremists is a bit over the top, but its still not a majority view.

If voters didn't support an independent Scotland, why would the majority of voters vote in a party whose main purpose is to achieve an Independent Scotland?

Why would Scotland be like Greece or Ireland?

Seems to me, most are quite happy with the "gimmick".

Originally posted by jrmcleod

Originally posted by TheUnusualSuspect
"And, finally, lets not forget the UK treasury bailing out RBS and HBOS which, if Scotland had been independant would have broken Scotland completely and you would be at the whim of EU technocrats."

I usually disagree with everything Stu has to say about topics such as the royal family, but today, he's actually come through for me....good work, mason!

Thats presuming Scotland were in the same state as England if we were independent. You cant assume to think RBS and HBOS would fail in a circumstance that is pure speculation.

Lets not forget northern rock either then who were actually purchased by the tax payer lol and O yeah its LLoyds who are the most exposed to EU crisis.

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by justwokeupand anybody thinking that you can base an economy on wind/wave power is smoking crack.

The same as any of you who think you can base an economy on our current situation...are they also on crack?

Scotland would lead Europe on renewable energy, there will still be oil (even though its declining), we would have manufacturing, ship building, exports, tourism, fishing and economics.

People underestimate the power of small nations. Look at Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Finland, Slovenia etc etc etc.

There is no reason to presume we would fail. Yes it will be hard for the first few years but it will NOT fail. Scotland should have had its independence 300 years ago. It is our right and if the people vote for it then it should be granted.

Those that dont vote are too scared to see change. What would you rather

1. Failure through trying

2. Failure without trying, because lets face it, this scenario we are in is going to fail anyways...

People forget that even though you are told we Scots are subsidised and get better treatment, if it werent for the Union, and Scotland was independent already, the amount of money England would NOT have is far more than we have been subsidised because not only the oil revenue but the business generated through it. That stretches into almost every industry. North Sea oil gave the UK a name as one of the best and most developed countries in the world. It has given them big financial security and power, had an independent Scotland been declared 100 years ago...England would be a dot on the global scale.

Don't hit the hand that feeds you...keep believing that Scotland is subsidised if it makes you feel better but the stark truth is the complete opposite when you remove every penny thats ever been generated in the UK through Oil in the North Sea, Scotland has subsidised England.

it seems the scots need another battle of bannockburn to change the english minds around
i'm of scotish decent(origionally from nova scotia) and try to keep my heritage strong in my heart,as well as with my kids. i'm with ya laddie. FREE SCOTLAND,AND KEEP SCOTLAND BRAVE!

Originally posted by jrmcleod
People forget that even though you are told we Scots are subsidised and get better treatment, if it werent for the Union, and Scotland was independent already, the amount of money England would NOT have is far more than we have been subsidised because not only the oil revenue but the business generated through it. That stretches into almost every industry. North Sea oil gave the UK a name as one of the best and most developed countries in the world. It has given them big financial security and power, had an independent Scotland been declared 100 years ago...England would be a dot on the global scale.

Don't hit the hand that feeds you...keep believing that Scotland is subsidised if it makes you feel better but the stark truth is the complete opposite when you remove every penny thats ever been generated in the UK through Oil in the North Sea, Scotland has subsidised England.

edit on 9/1/12 by jrmcleod because: (no reason given)

LOL Britain had a global empire years before the discovery of North Sea Oil. Epic fail.

Originally posted by reficul
it seems the scots need another battle of bannockburn to change the english minds around

i'm of scotish decent(origionally from nova scotia) and try to keep my heritage strong in my heart,as well as with my kids. i'm with ya laddie. FREE SCOTLAND,AND KEEP SCOTLAND BRAVE!

Maybe you should give Nova Scotia back to the Mi'Kmaq people then. Pot calling the kettle black me thinks:-

en.wikipedia.org...

I don't understand why every day English and Scottish people are getting on at each other here.

Whoever subsides who bla bla bla, it's hardly anything to do with us slubs on the ground right? Millions of Scottish and English people work together, travel, have kids together.

Don't play in to the divisive tactics of old.

reply to post by jrmcleod


Take away 'your' oil industry and what have you got?
Very little my friend.
And companies will not invest in a new and vulnerable nation - the Eurocrats would swallow an independant Scotland up within years.

Yes, the politicians in London are evil and manipulative, but those in Holyrood are little different.
Clegg and Cameron are complete twats....so is Salmond who is just as desperate for power and will sell his soul, and his country, to get it.

Originally posted by jrmcleod

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by justwokeupand anybody thinking that you can base an economy on wind/wave power is smoking crack.

The same as any of you who think you can base an economy on our current situation...are they also on crack?

Scotland would lead Europe on renewable energy, there will still be oil (even though its declining), we would have manufacturing, ship building, exports, tourism, fishing and economics.

People underestimate the power of small nations. Look at Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Finland, Slovenia etc etc etc.

There is no reason to presume we would fail. Yes it will be hard for the first few years but it will NOT fail. Scotland should have had its independence 300 years ago. It is our right and if the people vote for it then it should be granted.

Those that dont vote are too scared to see change. What would you rather

1. Failure through trying

2. Failure without trying, because lets face it, this scenario we are in is going to fail anyways...

Better to stay in the UK and fix that as a whole. The UK continuing as we are is also a recipe for disaster but scotland casting itself adrift is not the answer.

In case you haven't noticed Scotland hasn't been a manufacturing exporting powerhouse for decades. Its not suddenly going to re-sprout the day after independence. We don't have any shipbuilding left bar some remnants largely kept going by UK MoD orders. Would the new Scottish MoD fund this? Would England MoD buy scottish or fund english yards? Going misty eyed over memories of dead clyde industries is not helpful. The last generation of engineers craftsman trained when scotland was big in shipbuilding are now at retirement age.

As I said above. The transition to a successful independent scotland could have been done in the 70s but I don't think it can be done now. Too much has been lost to be rebuilt with what little oil money remains.