6 Million Jews vs 30 Million Russians Killed During World War 2

Babi Yar is a ravine in the Ukrainian capital Kiev and a site of a series of massacres carried out by the Nazis during their campaign against the Soviet Union...

It is estimated that as many as 50,000 Jews lost their lives at Babi Yar...

But,Jews were not the only ones taken there for execution...

Between 100,000 and 150,000 non Jews, including Gypsies,Soviet POWs and suspected Communists were also shot dead at Babi Yar ...en.wikipedia.org...

Majority of non-Jewish victims were from nations that had communist rule after WW2. How many people from the West were interested in stories about war crimes commited in communist countries during WW2 ? Not many
i would guess, especially not during the Cold War.

It's a little too late to start addressing this issue.

reply to post by Intrud3r
I dont think its ever too late to discuss anythig that humanity has suffered through,no matter when it happened,because those who forget the past are condemned to relive it and those who live without knowing what happened before they were born remain perpetully a child...

reply to post by blocula


We couldn't speak for them, because Russia was our ally.

That's why nobody said anything about all those German civilians we killed also.


Peace time is when such things come out. Ergo, nobody talked about the Russian deaths until after the USSR died. And by then, few lived who were part of it.


History works like that.

Originally posted by blocula

But ever since then,right up till the present day,all we ever hear about and all we ever read about is the Jewish Holocaust,never about the Russian Holocaust...

What about them? Who speaks out for them? Where is the Russian Holocaust Museum?

The squeaky wheel gets the oil..

Thread Fail on so many levels B. First off, it doesn't just give off a hint of antisemitism; it pretty obviously stinks of it.

But would you like to know where the museum is, the one you're so concerned about? It's in Farmington Hills Michigan.


Here's the press release to one of their fundraisers.

Attendees will have the opportunity to meet with WWII veterans and hear their stories. Soviet partisan and WWII veteran Yakov Sigal and American WWII veteran Albert Zack are the featured speakers who will discuss stories of survival and fighting against the Nazis.

Additionally, attendees can submit the names, wartime photos and memorabilia for the WWII veteran in their family to be displayed at the memorial. Renderings of the proposed memorial also will be on display. The Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America and Detroit Association of Jewish WWII Veterans from Former USSR are among the other contributing organizations.
~ SOURCE

Additionally, Soviet soldiers are remembered at the the WWII Memorial in Washington D.C., and I'm sure that there are at least one or two in Russia. The entire war was a tragedy, and bitching about one group being remembered over another (something about which you were wrong anyway) is nothing less than a poor attempt at antisemitic trolling.

Of course does not make it anymore important than other atrocities brought forth by wars...more. However, it reflects history; "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it".-George Santayana

I'll try to explain why by how it was explained to me... As to why it was/is not talked of as a "Russian Holocaust":

Stalin ordered the famine of people , because under his view they were not contributing to the country, they were deemed as lazy undesirables,as well as other people(people in opposition to him, farmers, etc.). During the food shortages...Stalin's approach was take over farms, create slaves, etc. Reflecting that he was doing the country a big favor in advancement and feeding people...

As a result, the USSR was transformed from a largely agrarian society into a great industrial power, and the basis was provided for its emergence as the world's second largest economy after World War II. wiki-Stalin

To Stalin "A million deaths was simply a statistic"...-quote from vid below

This video brings insight of the evils ...
Most Evil Men in History - Joseph Stalin

reply to post by Gorman91
This thread is about a direct comparison between the number of Jews killed and the number of Russians killed in WW-2...

How millions of Russians were also killed in the Death Camps,not just the Jews...

How millions of Russian civilians,many millions more than Jews,were also systematically hunted down and murdered...

How history looks at them and treats them and their death tolls very differently...

How the squeaky wheel gets the oil...

What we hear and read,what we are taught and led to believe,is often not the same as what actually happened...

Look at what happened to Russia. WWI, 2 million dead soldiers. Russian revolution, millions more dead. Deaths in gulags from 1921-1953, tens of millions. German invasion WWII, total dead due to Hitler and Stalin, 27 million. Forced famine in Ukraine (Holodomor) 7 million dead in 1932.
Hitler was a racist who wanted to kill all the Russians. Proof is the brutality he ordered against Soviet POWs early in the war. In January 1942, after the German Army had stalled (defeated) both at Leningrad and Moscow, he ordered improved treatment of Soviet POWs. At this point, Hitler was smart enough to realize he had lost the war, it was only a matter of time. From June 1941 to January 1942, when Hitler thought he would win quickly, he brutally killed the POWs, even though there was no need to if a German victory was at hand.
Mao may be the single worst human in history, and may have had the most people killed.

reply to post by blocula


Then you want to a pretty bad school.

I learned about all these mass deaths in highschool.

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Intrud3r

 

I dont think its ever too late to discuss anythig that humanity has suffered through,no matter when it happened,because those who forget the past are condemned to relive it and those who live without knowing what happened before they were born remain perpetully a child...

I totally agree, but like Gorman91 said, the ones who could tell about it are dead and forgotten. You only have numbers and most of the people posting on this thread are people who have a certain political agenda, they dont care for the dead civilians.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
And there you go making yet another thread about Jews.

Ive tried making threads about genocides in Sudan, Rwanda, Africa, Tibet, but they dont go anywhere. All people seem to care about is threads about jews/zionists.

And seriously, who are you to pop up in every thread that has a word Jew mentioned in it ? You are no better than those who just wait for threads that have the word Jew in them so they can spew hate, you just do the opposite. You didnt even have a clue what this thread was about when you wrote this post, calm down a bit.

Originally posted by OldCorp
Thread Fail on so many levels B. First off, it doesn't just give off a hint of antisemitism; it pretty obviously stinks of it.

Oh comeon, calling the thread anti semitic ? Really ? I only see valid questions from the OP. He is not denying the Holocaust.

Originally posted by Intrud3r

Originally posted by OldCorp
Thread Fail on so many levels B. First off, it doesn't just give off a hint of antisemitism; it pretty obviously stinks of it.

Oh comeon, calling the thread anti semitic ? Really ? I only see valid questions from the OP. He is not denying the Holocaust.

edit on 8-1-2012 by Intrud3r because: (no reason given)

He could have just as easily have said, "Why is there no Russian memorial" - even though there is - but no, he made a big deal out of the fact that he felt the Holocaust was getting special treatment because the victims were Jewish. Denying the Holocaust is not where the bar for antisemitism is set, it begins much more subtly; like this thread.

reply to post by Gorman91
All i ever was taught about historical wars in high school were the revolutionary and civil war.Not one word in four years of high school in rockland,mass.was told about ww-1,ww-2,korea,or vietnam.If all i knew was what that school told me,all those wars might as well have never happened.On my own i have read well over 100 non-fiction books about those wars and i know who suffered the most during ww-2,the russian people...

reply to post by blocula


This is very true. However, don't blame the educations system when it has worked. I too read about history and it is might good learning experience.

All that can be stated is this. People should read more.

And yes, the Russian people suffered the most. Such a pity indeed.

reply to post by blocula


Unfortunately human tragedy is often used for political purposes.

A person can wrap their mind around an invading foreign army causing death and destruction.

But a unique psychological horror is to have the milkman, who knew your family for years, show up to your home and forcibly remove you to a ghetto.

To have your own countrymen round your friends and relatives up and send them to camps.

What the Nazis did to the Jews was wickedness.....

Who cares how many millions died that way.

It was a horror...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Gorman91

 

This thread is about a direct comparison between the number of Jews killed and the number of Russians killed in WW-2...

It's not a very good one. In the first place, if you want to do an accurate sampling you have to determine the population.

In June of 1941, just as Hitler broke the non-aggression pact with the USSR, the Soviet population stood at 196,716,000. At wars' end, the population had been reduced to 170,548,000 - just over 26 million casualties. That's a horrific number of deaths to be sure, but it amounts to only a little more than 13% of the population.

The Jews on the other hand numbered around 9 million in 1939, of which 2/3 were slaughtered - 66.66%!

Mathematics has a way of putting things into perspective doesn't it?

Why does it always come back to the Jews? Seriously they've been the worlds scapegoat since the beginning of time. I just want to know what they did that p*ss so many people off?

OT: And like someone said earlier why are we comparing lives lost? The deaths of Russians is remembered I had to learn it in history class along with the Armenian genocide and the Kurds, Japanese interment camps . The whole reason for that class is to learn that history and not make the same mistakes and here you go making an undercutting remark about Jews .

EDIT: Another thing the reason the Russians aren't remembered is they helped play their hand in the slaughter the polishes people and Jews in the start of the war.

en.wikipedia.org...

The only reason the Russians even have such a high number is because of that crazy dictator who said "We'll down them in our dead".

The 12 million russian soldiers and 18 million russian civilians killed on the eastern front during WW-2 between june-1941 and april-1945 are stunning and horrible to realize and they equal out to on-average around...

30,000,000 russians were killed in 3 years and 10 months on the eastern front...

15,000,000 russians were being killed every 2 years on the eastern front...

7.500,000 russians were being killed every year on the eastern front...

3,700,000 russians were being killed every 6 months on the eastern front...

1,800,000 russians were being killed every 3 months on the eastern front...

600,000 russians were being killed every month on the eastern front...

150,000 russians were being killed every week on the eastern front...

21,000 russians were being killed every day on the eastern front...

7,000 russians were being killed every 8 hours on the eastern front...

900 russians were being killed every hour on the eastern front...

Originally posted by OldCorp

He could have just as easily have said, "Why is there no Russian memorial" - even though there is - but no, he made a big deal out of the fact that he felt the Holocaust was getting special treatment because the victims were Jewish. Denying the Holocaust is not where the bar for antisemitism is set, it begins much more subtly; like this thread.

Where is that bar on this thread ? Calling people for anti semitic without any reason is as pathetic as it gets.

Originally posted by blocula
The 12 million russian soldiers and 18 million russian civilians killed during WW-2 death tolls are stunning and horrible and they equal out to on average around..

30,000,000 russians were killed in just under 4 years on the eastern front...

15,000,000 russians were being killed every 2 years on the eastern front...

7.500,000 russians were being killed every year on the eastern front...

3,700,000 russians were being killed every 6 months on the eastern front...

1,800,000 russians were being killed every 3 months on the eastern front...

600,000 russians were being killed every month on the eastern front...

150,000 russians were being killed every week on the eastern front...

21,500 russians were being killed every day on the eastern front...

I have to disagree with you on this one. You cant compare military casualties with civilian. 99% of Jewish people were just civilians when they got slaughtered.

reply to post by Intrud3r
Hi...theres really nothing to disagree with about those numbers i posted imo,as i said they were on average...

Of course some days there were 50 killed and some days 5,000 killed and i only rounded them out to show an overall picture of the severity and brutality that was a daily occurrence on the eastern front during ww-2...

Many,many times civilians and soldiers were swept up into the same battles at the same time and many times both civilians and soldiers were shot,blown up,hanged and taken away to the death camps simultaneously...