The Master Programmer

I find it much more impressive that there exists a self extrapolating system. One that contains both dissipative and catalytic reactions. That the catalytic reactions could evolve into a complex encoding and storage system, eventually becoming self aware is way cooler than if was all just made as is.

reply to post by AnswerSeeker2012


I think you are further in your journey than I am. But I am getting there.

OP, it is certainly possible that you are right. I would not rule out the possibility that we are in for all intensive purposes "the matrix".

I believe the next advancements in our understanding of the world will be simulations of reality. If we could create accurate mathematical algorithms, we could determine the effects multiple variables have on each other. The scientific method does it's best to reduce everything to one variable, however it can't always do so without bias and requires hours upon hours of research. Problematically, Synergy exists where the sum of all parts is not equal to the whole, so reducing everything to one variable, without considering how something does within a particular system of multiple variables can be problematic. If you thought water put out fire because you tested water on fire, but failed to realize it was a grease fire you could end up making it worse. Computer simulations to be made to more and more accurately represent reality so that billions of experiments can be done without doing the experiments and compared to an actual experiment as well as testing both in reality and on computer in different situations could help determine multiple causes and effects rather than trying to identify a single one.

Computer simulations of reality in the future will have to be made, and the advancements to make them closer and closer to accurate simulations of realities will likely take place. Further more, the "holographic" nature of reality is exactly how a computer might make it to limit the processing power. You could then have a limited computation within an unlimited space. If you look at a computer program with "fractals" as an example, you can see how this works, it is an infinite loop where the information contained within a single atom would contain all the information of the universe. E=MC squared proves there is a tremendous amount of energy in a very limited amount of space. Assuming civilizations advance in technology, it is entirely possible that a civilization already has reached that point throughout history, and they would run simulations billions of times, so we could very well be "a computer program" just like the "matrix", and the set of rules that govern the reality "outside of the matrix" would have to be extremely similar. Mathematically if you consider the possibility that there are probably millions or billions of planets just like us in this universe, and the number of simulations done both to run tests, as well as to predict the future as well as the past, it's entirely possible that there is a "programmer", and probably more likely than not that we are in fact a program. Unfortunately, we could just be a giant "game" of civilization, which would explain why there has been so many wars. The programmer may not realize the extent of the pain that each of us feel, thinking it's "humane" or that the "simulated pain" saving "real pain" justifies the action.

reply to post by secretbonus


What's more interesting, is that if simulations are made with the ability to produce technology as well, and this technology can eventually advance to the point where it creates such simulations, which in turn could produce simulations ad infinitum, then the "computer" could reach it's limits. It may be more productive to defer some of the processing power holographically so each simulated reality puts in it's own simulation the effects the result of the one doing the simulation, but the risk of the "sudden shock" of the infinite loop of simulated reality could pose to be a problem to the entire power system.

If this were thought in theory or revised after a massive failure, they would put in either some kill switch, or some sort of design where as soon as we reached that point civilization would end.

All theory, but interesting to consider. Of course the maker of the universe, whether a simulated one of a similar race created in their image to simulate reality, or one of a God created is hardly much different from our perspective and the "maker of heaven and earth" could certainly have taken 7 days in this context as the computer program would have been made and the image of heaven and earth would be very similar to the one they enjoy. Arguing whether it's one supreme being, or an individual like the rest of us who simply is the "steve jobs" of the future is effectively semantics, although obviously there are major spiritual differences and post life consequences.

Thanks OP it is refreshing to read a genuinely imaginative and thought provoking thread

Can't add much but I have learned much.

reply to post by westcoast


West....before I reply I want to stress that I have respect for other peoples believes whatever they man be and ones belief in GOD is not in conflict with scientific and physical reality.

Having said that...I have to correct some of your statements reguardless if they were yours or from a Video. We have mapped the entire Human Genome down to every single atom at every single point on this vast Aminoacid molecular chain and we understand very well how it was created as well as how we can manipulate it.

We know what to do to create cures for every disease....we just have not yet develped the techniques....sort of like having a map to cross North America...but only having Horses and Wagons to do so. One particular area of DNA that we have alot of knowledge about and this scares me...is the part of our DNA responsible for aging.

As far as the concept that there must have been a Master Programmer for this complexity to arrise....well...you could say that a GOD used the process of Evolution to create the Universe or Multiverse and all in it....but Human Beings are not so much different than many other species on this planet...if Dolphins had an apposable thumb then....watch out!

It is out of shear Human EGO and Conceit that we try to place ourselves special and therefor...GOD must have had a hand in our creation. You probably don't know what my several jobs are...but one of them deals with a subject that makes it very clear that Human Beings are not the exception but rather just a voice in a chorus of what possibilities exist in this Multiverse. Take these words to heart...We are not the end all to end all.
Split Infinity

If we make the mistake of increasing Human Lifespan to too much of a degree....the planet will be over populated and resourses scarce. Areas that we can change to make Human Life better are the areas for proper development of our internal organs....preventing birth defects...increasing Human Intelligence....the list goes on.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Thanks for your input...sounds like I could probably learn a lot from having a conversation with you. (really)

I do realize that after much time....it took the largest super comupter in the world (I don't know how long but it was years) to come up with a map. (please correct me if I am wrong) A map is much different than creating and understanding. We could never write a program that complex. We have no idea how some of the 'simplest' components of a cell work. Genetic manipulation is so much different than creation. I'm afraid of what will happen in the future because of the on-going manipulation. I personally think it is opening a pandoras box.

I agree with you completely that we aren't that much different than a lot of the animals (genetically speaking). I of course, believe that God created them too, so why wouldn't they be similar? While I think we are special, I do not think we are 'above'. I think ALL life is precious and we (human species) have done a lot of harm.

I certainly don't think I have the answers to everything (hardly anything! )....life is an on-going learning process. That is really why I think we are here: to learn.

Originally posted by westcoast
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Thanks for your input...sounds like I could probably learn a lot from having a conversation with you. (really)

I do realize that after much time....it took the largest super comupter in the world (I don't know how long but it was years) to come up with a map. (please correct me if I am wrong) A map is much different than creating and understanding. We could never write a program that complex. We have no idea how some of the 'simplest' components of a cell work. Genetic manipulation is so much different than creation. I'm afraid of what will happen in the future because of the on-going manipulation. I personally think it is opening a pandoras box.

I agree with you completely that we aren't that much different than a lot of the animals (genetically speaking). I of course, believe that God created them too, so why wouldn't they be similar? While I think we are special, I do not think we are 'above'. I think ALL life is precious and we (human species) have done a lot of harm.

I certainly don't think I have the answers to everything (hardly anything!

)....life is an on-going learning process. That is really why I think we are here: to learn.

edit on 8-1-2012 by westcoast because: (no reason given)

I am happy to see you have an open mind and are not like some that when presented with something that goes against their beliefs or level of knowledge...they react badly...your response was a pleasent surprise....to be continued...Split Infinity

reply to post by westcoast


Because of my sometimes job...I know that there is tech. out there that would astonish you and as far as Computer abilities....lets just say...they are in advancement of what is pubplicly known as a cloud in the sky is above a mouse.

The CDC...Center for Disease Control....has been working for decades on developing vacines for the purpose of immunizing Americans against weaponised diseases. Understand...to do this...you must have samples of every possible strain and isolate it's DNA.

Over the years...as we finished mapping out the Human Genome...we realized that much of our DNA is VIRUS. Plus the info from the CDC helped us figure out how these ViRUS had mutated over the eons as all mamals share common viral strains as we were all decended from the same creature as all life on this planet is decended from a single celled organism.

What most Religious people do not understand is that a Human Being is not a single lifeform....we are Billions upon Billions of seperate lifeforms that have chosen by enviromental changes and evolution to group togeather as it is more efficient for survival. Split Infinity

Originally posted by BobLoblaw84
reply to post by Akragon

 

i recently watched Tron followed by Tron Legacy. Have you seen either of these? They're about life created by a master programmer and take place in a world inside a computer chip. In Tron Legacy, Jeff Bridges' character creates the world, but the world ends up eventually manifesting it's own life forms, beside the ones he himself had formed.

your point is very similar to this.

nice one

Recently saw TRon Legacy and was blown away with the idea of him the creator just creating basically the right conditions for life to form on it's own.

Maybe that is what god is....He was given the power to create the conditions for life to manifest and create itself.

Life needed something to create the conditions to allow it to continue to create itself endlessly. like a creation sound loop kind of.

I think ^ .....

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by BobLoblaw84
reply to post by Akragon

 

i recently watched Tron followed by Tron Legacy. Have you seen either of these? They're about life created by a master programmer and take place in a world inside a computer chip. In Tron Legacy, Jeff Bridges' character creates the world, but the world ends up eventually manifesting it's own life forms, beside the ones he himself had formed.

your point is very similar to this.

nice one

Recently saw TRon Legacy and was blown away with the idea of him the creator just creating basically the right conditions for life to form on it's own.

Maybe that is what god is....He was given the power to create the conditions for life to manifest and create itself.

Life needed something to create the conditions to allow it to continue to create itself endlessly. like a creation sound loop kind of.

I think ^ .....

This is one possibility but although I will not argue the possible existance of a GOD...the more you get to know about how things work...the more it becomes apparent that LIFE is a natural byproduct of the Universe or really Multiverse.

Experiments have been done and recently one came very close to accomplishing GENESIS. I believe within a year or two...they will find the proper combinations of conditions for life to be created in a sterile enviroment.

People tend to look at things and say...LOOK AT THE COMPLEXITY! There must be a creator! Then again...a few of us say...this complexity exists because that is how Evolution works...and evolution does not just pertain to biology but to how the Multiverse works. Split Infinity

I wonder if God, THE master programmer of everything, assossiates himself with the word god. As the master creator wouldnt He look at himself in reguards to us humans much like a father looks to his son? Since God is our creator/arcitect of all this, are angels just like computer programmers here on earth that just make minor corrections in code and update software? Maybe angels arnt anything like God but work closely with Him. The only lifeforms in existence that have the mind to understand everything he asks or sais. If God sent his angels to make adjustments here would we ever catch a glimpse of one, or maybe label them aliens if we did? I wouldnt doubt that whatever came befor us and so on was created by God. I wouldnt doubt that our DNA has been modified at different times in ancient history either. Maybe our next step in evolution is to wake up and transcend to relieve the position of angel and be the next programmers, or maybe its to be a lab rat. Either way I like reading about the possibilities. Good thread.

Originally posted by westcoast
There is HUGE difference between macro and micro evolution. Of course we adapt. Over the past several thousand years our bones have changed slightly, the way our muscles attach, the amount of hair, our teeth and perhaps even our brains. This is how we have adapted to our environment and diets. That is something completely different from saying that the extremely complex human body changed from a tadpole, to a lizard, to a monkey to a man. It simply doesn't make sense and hasn't even come close to being even remotely proven.

Nope. No poop there...not even a bunny turd.

Let's burn this enormous strawman down, shall we.

First, you need to go read a science book and understand what microevolution and macroevolution really is. Second, no scientist cliams we came from a monkey, rather a common ancestor.

Microevolution is just the change of allele frequency within organisms; think small progression. Macroevolution is the change of allele frequency among species. Macroevolution happens during speciation; i.e. when two species can no longer successfully breed.

A simple analogy is this:



If you accept microevolution, you also must accept macroevolution. They both happen simultaneously whether you like it or not.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


SplitInfinity- No matter the reason you credit to something being in existence, anyone can counter "Well, what made it possible for that to exist?" Its only reasonable to assume that everything comes back to an origin, and what created that origin is the only question left. An accident or God? An accident can not happen without something there in the first place to have a mishap, so, I say it was God or whatever else you call the sum of everything.

What we call reality, Is an application, stored on a logic proccessor...
(im done)
Point made, in full...

I will "not" debate the posibillty of this; because its imposible to discredit this theory...

(O.P.)
Nice thoughts... Thx for posting...

reply to post by SplitInfinity

You, are a wise person, thanks for that


OP, nice to see your open mind, and nice to read your story. Thanks!

reply to post by westcoast



I am an atheist, and have not been sick for over 5 years, and before that, rarely had a sickness in my entire life. Probably been sick less than 10 times all in all, over 30+ years.

Seems i am fine without that type of firewall, maybe i have another?

reply to post by westcoast


I believe I am God, I believe that Everyone is God.
I Believe everything including Satan was set up by me. so the question i must ask, is why am i trying to "hack" myself? makes no sense, this was all set up for a reason obviously, and the reason is spiritual progression.

Here is another way of looking at it

I have a theory: If god exists..And he was the creator of the world etc, etc..Does that mean when he was creating the 'Dog' he purposely put his name there backwards?
Cause According to the bible; God is in us all, and he is also the father of Jesus. So that means God is a man. 'Dog' is the exact opposite of God, and the only person that I can see that is so extremely opposite to God is the Devil..
So if all this Is correct, then God is a man, and The Devil is a dog..
And everywhere you go, people will always tell you that a Dog is a man's best friend..

That can only mean one thing..God and Satan are best friends, sitting in the immortal realm deciding how to play out their game of Monopoly: Universe Edition.

The idea that there must have been a Master Programmer for this complexity to arise seems bassackward to me.

Suppose for a minute that you are this Omni-guy who knows everything and can do anything. If you were at some point (after creating the Universes and other fun things) going to create Man why would you make him so complex? Wouldn't a slightly more complex and sentient mannequin or, say an Elmo doll work just as well? You might say that those wouldn't be able to move, think or reproduce. Sure they would, you are Omni-guy and you can do anything!

"Let there be Elmo guy!"

*poof!*

"Let Elmo guy think, move and stuff!"

*poof!*

And Omni-guy saw it was good and began to think about Barbie girl.

Kind of a reverse Occum's Razor.