Past Climate Change

I was replying to a thread and came across this in depth "study"(for lack of a better term) on climate change......I did a search on the title and found no matches........

I feel that everybody needs to read this............There is so much propaganda about man made global warming that people seem to be brainwashed to think that we are totally responsible for the changing planet known as earth..............

Past Climate Change

The Earth's climate has changed throughout history. From glacial periods (or "ice ages") where ice covered significant portions of the Earth to interglacial periods where ice retreated to the poles or melted entirely - the climate has continuously changed.

Scientists have been able to piece together a picture of the Earth's climate dating back decades to millions of years ago by analyzing a number of surrogate, or "proxy," measures of climate such as ice cores, boreholes, tree rings, glacier lengths, pollen remains, and ocean sediments, and by studying changes in the Earth's orbit around the sun.

This page contains information about the causes of climate change throughout the Earth's history, the rates at which the climate has changed, as well as information about climate change during the last 2,000 years.

www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/pastcc.html

There is a little more to read in the link.............

I think that the media has pounded man madeglobal warming(climate change) into the roots of todays youth......and are constantly trying to put fear into the lives of everyday citizens to make them(us feel responsible...........

We are nothing but a drop in the bucket on a global weather scale........We have endured pretty nice weather conditions for a few years(hundreds or thousands) and people think this is the way it should be.........

The real question is,,,,,,,,,,who are we to say what the weather is supposed to be, or not supposed to be........

Feel free to speak your mind...........I know that some will call me names or whatever, that is ok because I can see through the blinders and can think "outside of the box", In this case the box is a government and media controlled subject.........

Enjoy the read and peace out. The kids are driving me crazy so I may not be able to reply. It is time to go have a smoke.

I have been researching this also because man-made global warming just never made sense. Why then would temperatures be higher prior to the industrial revolution etc. There were times on this earth when temperatures were higher and plant and animal life flourished. One thing that sticks out is the fact that plant life on this planet NEED CO2...anyone who took 6th grade science knows that. Take the CO2 out of the air and plant life will suffer. Also if CO2 was as bad as they say (level in the air currently) wouldn't we be living in a rainforest on most of the earth? And why would that be a bad thing anyway? Many scientists are trying to get the word out that warning is probably good for us and the earth, but TPTB need to make money off the farse. It is like to unring a bell.

Sure, the planet goes through climate changes naturally, always has.
But us earthlings aren't very considerate of our planet.
You gotta admit, we're very trashy to mother nature.
and the big corporations are doing it the most harm, all they care about is profits

don't get me wrong, i started a thread a while back about the possibility of the poles reversing (naturally), Mother does what she has to do to survive.

and timetothink, this is off topic but I've noticed you before. do you really live on a boat? how cool would that be.

Your comment about having a smoke made me think of something. The way they are slowly making smoking an illegal act....it started as a vendetta against car exhaust...when it didn't have the results they wanted they turned their sights on cigs. Again, any kid who had 6th grade science knows car exhaust can kill you in minutes, but cig smoke may or may not kill you years in the future. So why go after cigs instead...the car thing couldn't be won (yet) people won't give up cars, and technology is not up to par yet to replace all cars with clean energy, sooo say it's the smokers fouling the air. With the help of the liberal teaching establishment, they have succeeded in getting people thinking they are going to drop over dead if someone smokes a cig, outside, to close to them....crazy!!!!

reply to post by horseplay


LOL...no I don't! Wish I did! Those are the coordinates for the island on "Lost". Most time that is where I would rather be!

reply to post by timetothink

Also if CO2 was as bad as they say (level in the air currently) wouldn't we be living in a rainforest on most of the earth?

While I agree with your comment, I would maybe leave the rainforests out of the equation like that(thats just me though).,........

People might come back with the deforestation thing..........While this is a problem, I think there is more to the equation because of people's grass yards and all the farmland with vegetation.................(Just a small example).

Look at how much the desert around vegas has turned green from people watering their lawns..........It is crazy......

I do agree with you though.

Thank you for replying.

reply to post by horseplay

But us earthlings aren't very considerate of our planet.
You gotta admit, we're very trashy to mother nature.
and the big corporations are doing it the most harm, all they care about is profits

Now that is something I can agree with.........

Why should I be responsible for a company dumping waste in the ocean, or an oil spill that was caused by negligence?

I am not responsible for other people's actions, only my own.....

Thank you for replying.

reply to post by timetothink


I guess there always needs to be someone to blame

Let it be the filthy smokers sarcasm

reply to post by liejunkie01

The real question is,,,,,,,,,,who are we to say what the weather is supposed to be, or not supposed to be........

you know, I was all for that Al Gore movie a few years ago until I did my own research. Actually, as far as people go Al is one of the worst offenders with his monstrous electricity usage from what I hear. Anyhow, this is totally right, global changes are natural. they have happened for millennium and if humans don't totally screw it up, they will continue for millennium.
but yea, oil spills and corps aren't helping.
we're gonna run out of oil sooner or later.....

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by timetothink

 

I guess there always needs to be someone to blame

Let it be the filthy smokers

sarcasm

yea, sure. you can pin it on me. my name is horseplay and I'm a smoker...
(lol)

Welcome to the Fragile Earth Forum. It's good to see another member that understands what is going on. Many of us have been posting very similar studies for years now on this forum. The AGW proponents truly are practicing what we would call "junk science", based upon preconceived conclusions, political expediency, and a complete lack of understanding of data collection, sampling, and multivariate analysis.
As you correctly point out, drawing a conclusion based upon perhaps 100 years of data, focusing upon ONE variable, in a puzzle of literally hundreds of major variables, and with a total time frame of over 4 billion years, is pure lunacy.
One of the other things you will find, in this forum, is that many will respond to posts such as yours, with comments regarding our pollution of the earth. Of course, we are polluting the earth, and we need to reduce that as much as is humanly possible, but we need to do it, not because of this AGW nonsense, but simply because it is our home, and we need to continue to LIVE here. We don't need an erroneous conclusion that it is the sole cause of global change, and in fact, is actually a minor player.
Anyway, welcome, and hope you post here again.

reply to post by horseplay


Al Gore

The propaganda man himself...........

As far as running out of oil......................I think the oil companies are banking on it..............they could charge even crazier prices than now, right before the next big thing gets pushed through.......

Are we really going to run out of oil? I do'nt know if I am convinced or not.

Call me crazy but it just seems like a marketing ploy to me.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Well said and quit frankly you hit the nail on the head..................

It amazes me how people are persuaded so easily on this subject.....

It seems like everyone wants someone else to do their thinking for them.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
We don't need an erroneous conclusion that it is the sole cause of global change, and in fact, is actually a minor player.

Gee, I becomes clear where you stand. But calling it a fact just puts you at the same level of the alarmists, I actually agree that the human race is we, human race has a major responsibility regarding climate change just because we are the only ones that can take any action against the situation and are probably the major cause (not the minor player you attempt to pass as a fact). But this will all be moot soon, a few more years and this will be completely unfixable, so there is really no point on discussing the problem no one will act, I only hope people remember who took positions only on the first Rio conference about the Oceans and at Kyoto.

My advice to people is to get out of Holland, coastal India and check out a good high spot in the Russian Siberia and once there to start planting cereals, that at least will keep you well at least for another 50 years, then it will be time for soy-lent green...

reply to post by Panic2k11

But this will all be moot soon, a few more years and this will be completely unfixable, so there is really no point on discussing the problem no one will act, I only hope people remember who took positions only on the first Rio conference about the Oceans and at Kyoto.

Why does it need to be fixed?

I feel we need to reduce the amount of pollutants released in the biosphere, but I think we need to adapt to the changes, not "fix them". I believe that we should reduce pollutants and let mother earth heal herself.

Can you clarify a little for me?

reply to post by liejunkie01


The problem is not only pollutants, its a problem of mindset and policy. I can not see how anyone could seriously and with any real world view reduce the issues merely to pollutants.

I'm not so old and remember normal and clearly distinct weather seasons, that and the possibility having a slower, simpler and predictable life.

But lets take your rational a bit further in both directions first why pollutants exists ? What causes the human race to be polluters and pillagers of natural resources without any consideration for the consequences beyond providing some lip service to good intentions and that a better future will arise, these are all lies and so self evident, so the only reason for this to continue is that most people live in delusion and the others simply do not care about the future...

Now lets take it to the other end of the issue how do you fix pollution, do you know what is the best and mostly followed approach ? Dilution... Most other options are equally damaging or too costly to, within normal economic constraints, as to even validate the reasons why the pollution vectors were first created...

I do not see a way that we would be realistically be able to avoid a very dark future without a global and generalized approach, and since the requirements to exercise such an attempt would need an extreme radical change to most human systems and a downgrade in living standards to those that could promote the change in the first place, that the chance of it happening is very slim, this is then compounded by the situation being so dire and quickly becoming irreversible...

Think for a while in the human history to the times we, humans, intentionally and consciously acted to avoid calamities and you will find very few examples and the ones you would find were on issues that not only evolved slowly but whose consequences where clear and immediate.

You could even look to the economic issues we are witnessing today as a last example on how badly we solve global problems, it has only started to be felt in 2008, it was preventable and even announced, look in how governments have approached the issue and what consequences for instance in the USA and UK will be for future generations...

The reality is that things are all falling apart, from overfishing to the creation of oceanic dead zones and general pollution of all water resources, by 2020 weather unpredictability will cause major havoc on food production and planing, damages to structures and major loss of lives will be common day events, meat production will also decrease since today's numbers are only possible due to the animals being feed with cereals, by 2050 most oceans will be virtually dead and wars will start about drinking water. By 2060 oil prices will be prohibitive high, making agriculture and transport start to really collapse, famine will reign. In 2100 most ecosystems will be dead, not only because of changes in weather patters that will not only become unpredictable but extreme, but by direct human actions or inaction to take preventive measures.

I would extremely surprised if by 2150 more than 10% of the world population could still be considered living in anything similar to today's Western quality of life (that has now becoming to decrease) and having at least an equal life expectancy (also decreasing today).

I do not see a realistic way out of this path, I agree that most people will like, and will actively chose to believe that it will all be solved, that a quick solution exists or that the situation is not so bad, but I chose not to believe in fantasies. The problem is clear, we are the problem.

reply to post by liejunkie01


Just bear in mind that the fact that people ahve been dying of natural cuases for hundreds of thousands of years doesn't mean that shooting someone with a gun (that didn;t exist when all those other people died) won't make you responsible for their death

In other words just because A can cause B, it does not mean that C cannot also cause B.

Which is, of course, the situation we have with climate change.

But calling it a fact just puts you at the same level of the alarmists, I actually agree that the human race is we, human race has a major responsibility regarding climate change just because we are the only ones that can take any action against the situation and are probably the major cause (not the minor player you attempt to pass as a fact)

reply to post by Panic2k11

Actually, it is a minor player in the scheme of the history of earth. The changes that we have had over the last century are extremely MINOR compared to changes in the past, such as Ice Ages, and hot periods where the earth was extremely hot, not the 1 to 3 degree difference some talk about today. Since these major changes occurred without mankind, one can conclude that mankind is a minor contributor to climate changes. Don't make the mistake of many, that conclude that short term changes mean anything in the grand scheme of things. They do not.
You hint that you are not an alarmist, but your rhetoric says just the opposite:

But this will all be moot soon, a few more years and this will be completely unfixable, so there is really no point on discussing the problem no one will act,

That certainly sounds like an alarmist to me. Well, we'll see, in a "few years" if you are right. I suspect nothing major will happen, other than normal fluctuations from year to year. If you are right, the sky will fall Chicken Little, we will are be gone, and it won't matter, but I rather doubt much will happen at all.

reply to post by horseplay


Smokers of the world unite.....we must fight this smoker warming....I mean global warming thing! I see another "-gate" on the horizon.

reply to post by Panic2k11


We aren't the only ones who can influence the changes. That's the whole point, the earth has been doing this looooooong before there were humans and will continue long after us. I am not saying we should pollute our hearts out, but making us buy different lightbulbs and all that crap is just another money making scheme. They are using guilt as usual to change policy and redistribute wealth up the ladder.