Iran Has Until November

It appears that Bush along with leaders of European nations and UN inspector El Baradei are about to issue an ultimatum to Iran to disarm its nuclear weapons program by November or else face UN sanctions immediately after the Presidential Elections (assuming this administration wins).

www.debka.com...

In my opinion this website has been very accurate in reporting this type of news prior to it getting released (some say this website has access to the Israeli Mossad).

If UN sanctions are passed, does this lead us down the same road as Iraq? Iran does have significant oil reserves.

www.valve-world.net...

For the record, I don't believe we are in Iraq for oil but I wanted to point it out for all to discuss.

Originally posted by dcgolf
It appears that Bush along with leaders of European nations and UN inspector El Baradei are about to issue an ultimatum to Iran to disarm its nuclear weapons program by November or else face UN sanctions immediately after the Presidential Elections (assuming this administration wins).

- Actually the UK along with France and Germany has demanded Iran give undertakings about not seeking the technology to refine and enrich Uranium for fuel.

This is not the same as persuing weapons grade material, or closing down a weapons program; but, hey, details details, right?

[In my opinion this website has been very accurate in reporting this type of news prior to it getting released (some say this website has access to the Israeli Mossad).

If UN sanctions are passed, does this lead us down the same road as Iraq? Iran does have significant oil reserves.

www.valve-world.net...

For the record, I don't believe we are in Iraq for oil but I wanted to point it out for all to discuss.

- I think there are people out there deliberately confusing and misrepresenting the issue and making their agenda on the basis that all one has to say are words like 'uranium' and 'nuclear' and the public can be relied upon to know little of the detail and facts.

Iran has not been shown to have a weapons program of any kind.

.....but hey, details details, right?

[edit on 11-9-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

For the record, I don't believe we are in Iraq for oil but I wanted to point it out for all to discuss.

I dont think the USA and some of its allies attacked Iraq for oil.
But I cant figure out why the USA and some of its allies attacked Iraq starting a side show that is chewing up resouces that should be used to find Bin ladin and his cronies.
So far I have only heard some fairy tale about a free Iraq spreading democracy around the middle east like melted butter.

How could any government be as naive as to think that Iraq would become a democracy with out interference from the likes of Iran?

ahh US and Western hypocrisy. The Americans have more dangerous weapons than anyone else but are the international community allowed to check their stockpiles??

If Israel didn't have nukes Iran probably wouldn't be pursuing them.

Originally posted by drfunk
ahh US and Western hypocrisy. The Americans have more dangerous weapons than anyone else but are the international community allowed to check their stockpiles??

If Israel didn't have nukes Iran probably wouldn't be pursuing them.

If Israel didnt have nukes Iran would develop nukes anyway and be tempted to use them. Even If Iraq becomes a pro western democracy its will have to spend more on american made arms then on health care and other public services. If Im right were still going to be left with an Iraq armed to the teeth.

I agree with you about Iraq i also think it will be left armed to the teeth if western democracy is successful there.

However I think that the nukes in Israel has just set a precedent in the Middle East, like it makes it alright to have nukes because they have them. Iran is most likely arming because of US and Israeli hostilities. If they have nukes, the US won't dare touch them.

thanks,
drfunk

wats the point of Iran having nukes?

whether they use it on Israel or US, its SUICIDE!!! the land of Israel is the world's most holiest piece of land to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. If Iran is dumb enough to nuke Israel, not only would Israel retaliate with hundreds of nukes, but the US would also vaporize the whole Iranian country. If Iran nukes the US,...well... thats just being retarded. I just cant explain how dumb you have to be to do that. The US will nuke them back to the stone age!!!

Originally posted by drfunk
I
However I think that the nukes in Israel has just set a precedent in the Middle East, like it makes it alright to have nukes because they have them. Iran is most likely arming because of US and Israeli hostilities. If they have nukes, the US won't dare touch them.

thanks,
drfunk

I think Israel has the right idea developing Nuclear wepons before any of it neighbours did the same. Imagne if Iran had nukes and Israel didnt they wouldnt have many options other then hope that the american "son of star wars program" will do its job.

Originally posted by xpert11
[Imagne if Iran had nukes and Israel didnt

- Why would anyone waste time considering that?

That is absolutely not the case today.

Originally posted by DJAghetto
wats the point of Iran having nukes?

whether they use it on Israel or US, its SUICIDE!!! the land of Israel is the world's most holiest piece of land to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. If Iran is dumb enough to nuke Israel, not only would Israel retaliate with hundreds of nukes, but the US would also vaporize the whole Iranian country. If Iran nukes the US,...well... thats just being retarded. I just cant explain how dumb you have to be to do that. The US will nuke them back to the stone age!!!

- Yeah but there is an entire industry in the US now geared up to these new wars and trying to spread its 'message' to the rest of the 'west'. Egged on by an Israeli state that is using the US and any western allies going to fight her wars of regional supremacy for her.

All done on the basis that because people will suicide themselves in attacks individually that must mean their nutty religious fundamentalist leaders (especially ones like Iran has had) would suicide their entire nation, so we must attack them in their own countries before 'they' attack 'us'.

Such is the level of their 'logic' as they prey on people's natural fears, gouge us of our money to pay for ever more unnecessary conflict and take the lives of our countryfolk to feed the war machine.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by xpert11
[Imagne if Iran had nukes and Israel didnt

-

That is absolutely not the case today.

Well dont you like to state the obvious.
You missed my point. Let me put it another way. If a countrie (in this case Israel) wants to defend itself it has to stay one step ahead of its enemys whether it be planes tanks or in this case nukes. You have to get the wepon of question before your enemy dose.

Mayabe the yanks should "lease" some of there nukes to Israel the only way Iran will stop developing nukes is when they realize they have lost the middle eastern arms race the sooner the better. Now we come do a classic problem How do we stop nations from developing nukes? Well in theroy the USA has an alliance with the countrie (thus is obliged to defend that countrie in an event of war.) however alot of countries are not so "friendly " terms with the USA. The truth is that the isnt much the world can do to prevent Iran or any other countrie from developing nukes.

Of course the USA and other countries can complain at the UN . But lets face it the UN is like your mother nobody listens to her. Leaseing nukes to Israel could put the new Iraq government in a awarkd spot but give them more aid money and they would agree with anything.

Giving more nukes to Israel wont start WW4 Iran would supply the insurgents in Iraq with more arms ,money and WMDs there not crazy enough to lanch open warfare against the USA.

Originally posted by xpert11
Well dont you like to state the obvious.

- Er, pardon me?

From reading your post it appears that you have missed the obvious point or are unaware of it.

Israel already has nuclear weapons, the latest estimates are that they have about 200 deliverable weapons.

Mayabe the yanks should "lease" some of there nukes to Israel the only way Iran will stop developing nukes is when they realize they have lost the middle eastern arms race the sooner the better.

- As I said this point is moot. Israel already has nuclear wepons, what would the USA want to lease them some for?

In any case your idea is flawed. Israeli possession of such weapons hasn't stopped the matter there. Some of the other countries now believe themselves justified in attempting to deter Israeli nuclear weapons with their own.

The truth is that the isnt much the world can do to prevent Iran or any other countrie from developing nukes.

- This is a classic problem with proliferation. Some in the west thought it fine and no problem that Israel became a nuclear equipped country in the ME region but the truth is it only provoked the others to try and gain an equality in this area.

Of course the USA and other countries can complain at the UN . But lets face it the UN is like your mother nobody listens to her.

- Yeah well maybe if certain parties stopped expecting the UN to act like it was on someone's 'side' things might start to work better.

This is a good case in point. Had the UN been half as bothered about Israel's actual nuclear WMD's rather than people's imagined ones we might be better off and others might be behaving better.

Leaseing nukes to Israel could put the new Iraq government in a awarkd spot but give them more aid money and they would agree with anything.

- The last thing the ME needs is yet another insane act of blatent US - Israeli hypocracy. Talk about pouring fuel on the fire.

Giving more nukes to Israel wont start WW4 Iran would supply the insurgents in Iraq with more arms ,money and WMDs there not crazy enough to lanch open warfare against the USA.

- This is just crazy. Why would the USA give the already nuclear equipped Israel yet more nuclear weapons?

Even if there were no nuclear weapons in the ME how would now adding them help?

Nevertheless there are nuclear weapons in the Israeli arsenal and it has not calmed things at all, as anyone can see.

Only possible course of action for altering the state of Iran is a coup or to help spark a Prague Spring-type revolution.

The Iranian people are no longer interested in being controlled by the West at all and are working on an independent destiny for their nation.

The United States is not in a position economically or militarily to be able to do conventional military action against Iran for some time to come.

Oh no, we're going to threaten an Arab nation with sanctions. We all see where that got us...

Seriously, the UN is about as bad about learning from its mistakes as the US is

Originally posted by DJAghetto
wats the point of Iran having nukes?

whether they use it on Israel or US, its SUICIDE!!! the land of Israel is the world's most holiest piece of land to Jews, Christians, and Muslims. If Iran is dumb enough to nuke Israel, not only would Israel retaliate with hundreds of nukes, but the US would also vaporize the whole Iranian country. If Iran nukes the US,...well... thats just being retarded. I just cant explain how dumb you have to be to do that. The US will nuke them back to the stone age!!!

The ownership of nuclear weapons has nothing to do with "USING THEM".
Its all about having them.

The entire Cold War was "faught" by 2 sides "having" nukes not by using them.

Er, pardon me?
From reading your post it appears that you have missed the obvious point or are unaware of it.
Well dont you think if Israel didnt have nukes we wouldnt be having this debate?

- As I said this point is moot. Israel already has nuclear wepons, what would the USA want to lease them some for? A better word would be pernment loan. If the USA gives Israel more nukes on pernment loan Israel win the ME arms race Why? Two reasons the way to win a arms race is thou econmics who ever has money left to run the countrie. The other reason is that Iran will either go bankrupt building nukes to complete with Israel or they will stop there nuke program.

Once Iran has lost the arms race the other ME countries will be smart enough to realize that developing nukes is pointless and they will find other ways to undermine Israel and the USA.

If UN sanctions are passed, does this lead us down the same road as Iraq? Iran does have significant oil reserves.

I think so though the US is already dealing with 2 countries so dealing with a 3rd one at the same time seems to be imposssible

The United States is not in a position economically or militarily to be able to do conventional military action against Iran for some time to come.

Not entirely true.

We cannot fight a war of occupation true enough, as we are doing so in Iraq, but we can easily afford to go in and cripple such programs and reduce their military capability, with little risk, through aerial bombardment.

Just as an add in... I'd bet good money that Iran already has nukes, bought off of the Soviets after the breakup of the USSR. They're simply looking to add to the arsenal, with some more modern versions.

What if we bomb Iran? Hmmm, well considering support is flagging heavily for the total mess Iraq has turned into, and that bombing nuclear research sites wouldn't do anything but blow radioactive materials into the atmosphere at best, and simply miss things and piss off Iran / Middle East / World at best, I don't see where it'd be exactly advantageous to do that.

Sure we could bomb Iran, but to what advantage?

Would we have to destroy the Iranian subs trailing our CBGs in the Persian Gulf before we bombed them?

Would bombing the nuclear sites take a massive air war to subdue Irans air defenses so they have no ability to retaliate?

What about the effect of overt Iranian support of the Iraqi insurgency?

Where would Russia stand in this?

Probably what we're seeing now with the US concerned about Iranian nukes, is another 10 - 15 year buildup to some type of overthrow of Iran. Only problem this time is we don't have a nice big means of destroying the Iranian military en masse, Gulf War One style, and they've already been living with Western sanctions for 25 years.

The issue of Iraq has to be settled first. At the rate we're going if we don't see the Green Zone evacuated Saigon '75 style we'll be lucky.

sminkey,

In 1967, the US warned Israel that the USSR has put Israeli cities on its nuclear target list. So Israel threatened the USSR that they will sneak briefcases(normal-size), armed with nukes, into Moscow and other major Soviet cities. The USSR backed off...

now, think about it...
if Israel had developed those briefcases in the '60s, then imagine what they have now...

back to wat u were saying...

All done on the basis that because people will suicide themselves in attacks individually that must mean their nutty religious fundamentalist leaders (especially ones like Iran has had) would suicide their entire nation, so we must attack them in their own countries before 'they' attack 'us'.

when i said suicide, i meant that they will never come out of this war victorious. All Israel is gonna do is take out the nuclear facilities and Iran knows this. For Iran to retaliate is like asking Israel,"Please nuke us!" It doesnt make sense for them to retaliate.

Here's a scary thought...
Suppose Israel has a few 'Nuke briefcases' hidden in major Iranian cities, Israel takes out the nuclear facilities, and Iran strikes back...
Imagine the devastation... The world will be in shock!!!

but like always, Israel will get away with it!!!