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Early Indoctrination + Life Experience + Brains = WISDOM? Or not.
page: 2share:
reply to post by chr0naut
Absolutely. Quite different indeed.
You know, I appreciate your points. I was just thinking about these things before I got on here this morning....
I wonder -- nay, I SUSPECT ---
That Religion is most appealing to people who haven't got much imagination. And who are perhaps rather lacking in initiative or motivation or stimulation, so they want this "fear" as you call it.
A person with a creative streak will listen to the preaching and eventually think, "Wait, wait. Wait just a minute."
And then come up with question or two.
NOT like one of those annoying people who, while watching a movie, can't keep straight who is who, follow the plot, or fit in the twists and ironies.
Nonono. I'm talking about the kind of person who pays REALLY CLOSE attention, WANTS to suspend their disbelief (which is what moviemakers and fantasy/sci-fi writers expect us to do....) and STILL says "This story is crap!!" and later thinks "That movie want absolutely nowhere, and was a huge disappointment." and eventually "It may be a best seller or a blockbuster, but it's aimed at people who are [insert attributes here: age 12, just into gore, only like shoot-em-ups, really into horror stories, can't stand chick flicks, etc. etc. etc.]
Creative, intelligent, curious people will shake their heads and think what a waste of their time it was to sit in the theatre and waste of money to have paid to get in! Or they will get to, say, chapter three of that newest bestseller by author Soandso, slam it shut, and then say "THIS IS PULP FICTION. Why do people read this kind of tripe?" And thereafter, those people, rather than INVESTING their money in those movies or books, will go to the LIBRARY and BORROW them first. No commitment. Loved it? Go buy a copy. But don't buy it before you've had a look, or are very sure you already love that author's work.
And then say to themselves, out of boredom, or frustration, or anger at the manipulation getting the perp rich, or even with dollar signs in their own eyes....
"Self, these stores are pretty shabbily constructed. The characters represented are inconsistent and either terrorists or fools. It just is not believable, taken as a whole. And who would worship some pathological murdering bully just because he said so? You know, self, let's make up our own story....since all there is to go on is ideas and some really, really old stories that aren't even original.....and...and, MAYBE we can make some money at it! Look at how profitable these stupid movies and lame-o books are!"
Enough of the analogy. If people don't get my point from that one, I give up trying.
Wisdom and knowledge are different:
Absolutely. Quite different indeed.
You know, I appreciate your points. I was just thinking about these things before I got on here this morning....
I wonder -- nay, I SUSPECT ---
That Religion is most appealing to people who haven't got much imagination. And who are perhaps rather lacking in initiative or motivation or stimulation, so they want this "fear" as you call it.
A person with a creative streak will listen to the preaching and eventually think, "Wait, wait. Wait just a minute."
And then come up with question or two.
NOT like one of those annoying people who, while watching a movie, can't keep straight who is who, follow the plot, or fit in the twists and ironies.
Nonono. I'm talking about the kind of person who pays REALLY CLOSE attention, WANTS to suspend their disbelief (which is what moviemakers and fantasy/sci-fi writers expect us to do....) and STILL says "This story is crap!!" and later thinks "That movie want absolutely nowhere, and was a huge disappointment." and eventually "It may be a best seller or a blockbuster, but it's aimed at people who are [insert attributes here: age 12, just into gore, only like shoot-em-ups, really into horror stories, can't stand chick flicks, etc. etc. etc.]
Creative, intelligent, curious people will shake their heads and think what a waste of their time it was to sit in the theatre and waste of money to have paid to get in! Or they will get to, say, chapter three of that newest bestseller by author Soandso, slam it shut, and then say "THIS IS PULP FICTION. Why do people read this kind of tripe?" And thereafter, those people, rather than INVESTING their money in those movies or books, will go to the LIBRARY and BORROW them first. No commitment. Loved it? Go buy a copy. But don't buy it before you've had a look, or are very sure you already love that author's work.
And then say to themselves, out of boredom, or frustration, or anger at the manipulation getting the perp rich, or even with dollar signs in their own eyes....
"Self, these stores are pretty shabbily constructed. The characters represented are inconsistent and either terrorists or fools. It just is not believable, taken as a whole. And who would worship some pathological murdering bully just because he said so? You know, self, let's make up our own story....since all there is to go on is ideas and some really, really old stories that aren't even original.....and...and, MAYBE we can make some money at it! Look at how profitable these stupid movies and lame-o books are!"
Enough of the analogy. If people don't get my point from that one, I give up trying.
Originally posted by wildtimes
Guys, these forums are really sort of addicting (while I'm on one of my searching crusades, anyway).
I see SO MUCH hateful wrath from people who are convinced they know.
I'm curious to find out, of the members on ATS, what age groups are you in?
If you are younger than 25, why are you so adamant that your "elders" must be wrong?
If you are 25-40, What happened in your life that you cling to your "faith" with such ferocious zeal?
If you are OVER 40, do you still believe what you did as a little kid? An adolescent? A young adult?
If you are OVER 50...
does it bother you (like it bothers me) that the youngsters (anyone under 25) are so hostlie and rabid? .... Or that the older ones seem to have a really desperate "need" to cling to something?
Life experience changes a person's outlook. That is a FACT.
What, if anything, has changed your outlook, your faith, your belief in the religion you had as a kid?
Is anyone willing to share/disclose personal stories that explain your enthusiasm, or lack of it, for your faith? Do you ever wonder: "Why do I feel so strongly about this, and so upset when challenged?"
Hope I get some traffic on this one.
First this an excellent post, I think you are asking some important questions. I am in the 25-40 group and I don't cling to my faith with zeal....I don't cling to it at all. It kinda is like my shadow, it is with me wherever I go, whatever I do, it is with me, a part of who I am. I do not think about it as a separate thing or some concept in my mind, it goes deeper than a concept. It is in every cell of my body.
I think the major thing that changed my childhood outlook was my daughter. As a child growing up I was searching for the answers....the big ones. I envied people who had "found" god. I had not "found god" and I was desperately looking for him everywhere. I looked into many different religions, they all seemed pretty good in theory, but I could never FEEL anything REAL.
It was not until I had a child of my own that I "found god" and the god I found was within me, and I think that is what the Bible means when it says "the kingdom of god is within you" god was within me, in every atom of my being, my very existence and god was in every atom of every cell in my child as well. For the first time ever, something felt incredibly REAL. life is my god...existence....being....it is hard to explain...but that is it for me.
reply to post by Mijamija
Hi, mija,
thanks for this post! I agree, when I became a parent, my entire world changed, and my understanding of faith, and the Divine. It was as though I was a newborn again, too...watching them grow and respond to the world, getting to know their personalities, their interests, talents, what frustrated them, what pleased them, how vulnerable and precious they were.
Looking into their eyes, I KNEW that I was seeing the Divine, and that it also dwelt in me....
I started studying Taoist Buddhism, and Zen, and finally found something that, as you say, is part of me. I don't have to cling to it, it is just there, inside me, all the time. Mine are now in their 20s, and my faith hasn't staggered one bit...about a year and a half ago, my father died. It was the first loss of that magnitude for me. The grief was shattering...but my faith was not shaken.
LOVE. LOVE is what it's all about.
You don't say how old your daughter is now...but welcome to that world that only a mother can understand. You have to live it before you understand it. No amount of talking to someone can get it across to them. It's indescribable, and to me, that is the Divine.
cheers and a hug!
It was not until I had a child of my own that I "found god" and the god I found was within me, and I think that is what the Bible means when it says "the kingdom of god is within you" god was within me, in every atom of my being, my very existence and god was in every atom of every cell in my child as well. For the first time ever, something felt incredibly REAL. life is my god...existence....being....it is hard to explain...but that is it for me.
Hi, mija,
thanks for this post! I agree, when I became a parent, my entire world changed, and my understanding of faith, and the Divine. It was as though I was a newborn again, too...watching them grow and respond to the world, getting to know their personalities, their interests, talents, what frustrated them, what pleased them, how vulnerable and precious they were.
Looking into their eyes, I KNEW that I was seeing the Divine, and that it also dwelt in me....
I started studying Taoist Buddhism, and Zen, and finally found something that, as you say, is part of me. I don't have to cling to it, it is just there, inside me, all the time. Mine are now in their 20s, and my faith hasn't staggered one bit...about a year and a half ago, my father died. It was the first loss of that magnitude for me. The grief was shattering...but my faith was not shaken.
LOVE. LOVE is what it's all about.
You don't say how old your daughter is now...but welcome to that world that only a mother can understand. You have to live it before you understand it. No amount of talking to someone can get it across to them. It's indescribable, and to me, that is the Divine.
cheers and a hug!
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