The waking YOU

I have been pondering this for a while now and just wanted everyone else's opinion. How can you know for certain that when you wake up after sleeping that its the same YOU resuming your life? what if all of the thoughts in your mind are made up instantly upon waking from sleep and that you have no real past experiences.

reply to post by Basilisk

Is this Nexus 6?


Edit: So are you asking if we think we are or are you saying you have your doubts about you?

I'm not familiar with that... care to explain?

Originally posted by Basilisk
I have been pondering this for a while now and just wanted everyone else's opinion. How can you know for certain that when you wake up after sleeping that its the same YOU resuming your life? what if all of the thoughts in your mind are made up instantly upon waking from sleep and that you have no real past experiences.

I wish this was true, because after new years i wouldn't have woken up with that massive hangover!

Scientifically we know parts of our brain store memory (short and long term), and your brain is very active when you sleep it doesn't go into a dormant dead phase. I don't know much about the subject so i wont pretend to have all the facts but surely while you sleep your brain would store events, memories and other misc information you've learnt. If you've ever been awake for 2/3 days without sleep you'll have trouble remembering the first day and have massive losses of times in between.

Well i have only thought about me personally because i can't possible know what everyone else is experiencing. But I was asking about US in general. How can we be certain that our past experiences are actually real and not created right before we wake up.

So, are you trying to say that we start out each day as a blank slate of consciousness, and basically "create our lives" upon waking?

reply to post by RatoAstuto


This is exactly what i'm talking about... How can we know for certain that this is not the case?

It might take a split second of several lifetimes to see that you can't be somebody else,
the sense of you remains the same always no matter what happens,
and furthermore that sense of "me" it's the same sense to all sentient beings,
everything feels as "me" the same "me" as you do right now, even a frog or a leopard and
isn't a different separated "me" - is the exact same as yours.

Takes a little reflecting to see it tho, start with the fact that is the same you
over the years, same "you" as 5 yo or as 10 yo or as 20 yo although everything in your body or
your experience has completely changed the "me" sense remains untouched and exactly the same.

reply to post by Basilisk


Well they say sleeping is little slice of death.

What if when we sleep, the consciousness inhabiting the body for the day, moves on after the experience only for a new consciousness' turn at reality, taking on the memories previously gained. Interesting post.

reply to post by Basilisk


Well, where's the logic in it? Why create a past and live out it's consequences when in objective reality your day to day actions mean more or less nothing in the scenario you put forth? Why create a personality when no one but maybe you will remember it? The hypothetical existence you put forth is a self-exclusive masturbatory one at best, yet we our actions as a species suggest otherwise.

We worry what other think of us because we know they will remember those thoughts when we need help, we plan for the future because we know it is uncertain. If these things were not true, we would live only in the moment.

reply to post by Basilisk


There is no possible way to prove or disprove this, that I am aware of.

At any given moment in time we can think to ourselves and wonder, 'how do I know the memories of my past are real or if I have just now come into existence with every single feeling and experience downloaded into my mind?'

This is true of any moment. How can you be certain you have just read my words here or if the very recent memory of reading my words has been downloaded into your mind?

A downloaded memory could be said to completely convince someone that their lives, previous to this very moment, are nothing more than downloaded data.

This statement can be said of every single moment we ever spend conscious.

Right now you know that you are real, you are here and you are experiencing this reality, but how can you be sure that this moment actually occurred when you think back on the memory of this moment - in a year a month a week, an hour, a minute, or even in just a few seconds. Can you be certain that you really just read this yourself or could it be that your memory of this has been downloaded, so that you believe you experienced this moment.

This question can be asked over and over again, at any given moment and you can never ever be certain that you actually experienced your memories or if they have been implanted.

It could be possible that every memory, experience, each of our senses, and absolutely everything else in our reality could be nothing more than programming that is being ran on a computer that is our brain.

Everything takes place inside our brain, everything. We interpret different signals to produce our reality. It is possible that every signal we interpret into reality is computer programming and we, as individuals, are the computers that are being manipulated to execute the programming and decipher the signals downloaded into us by a programmer...


If we were inclined to do so, do you think we could build a computer and write programs that would execute on the computer in such a way that the computer could be made to interpret things in a way that we do?
Could we combine different programs and parameters for the computers to function within and then let it run automatically within the field parameters? Could this program be made in such a way that it allows the computer to combine different programming features in such a way as to create the illusion of emotions and consciousness. Could the good and the bad experiences and feelings be the product of several different programming scenarios, making the feelings and emotions real to the computer, when in reality they are nothing more than the result of the computer executing various parts of the program?

Kinda like a 3d platform for a video game that can be fully manipulated by the main character, but instead of someone playing as the main character, we allow the main character to work through the platform and evolve automatically, making it's own reality based on the rules and parameters within the gaming platform?

sorry for the babylon =-) couldn't resist after reading the recent 'babylon', 'babble on' thread





ETA: I have recently been seeing people use the word 'learnt' when talking about learning something. I am really not trying to call anyone out or make myself look illiterate to some extent, but I want to ask you guys and gals, for my own knowledge : is 'learnt' a proper and correct word, used to identify something someone has learned? Is it accepted as correct in some areas and not correct in others? sorry about the off topic question, just wanted to ask before I forget...

reply to post by RatoAstuto


I'm not asking why or even how this could be true... I'm asking if there is a way to prove that this cannot be the case. Just because you think that there is no reason for this to be true doesn't mean it can't be true.

I can somewhat accept the idea that a consciousness may be able to drift about as the brain starts to shut down. As is the case with sleeping. I've had a few strange experiences and somewhat "knowing what is happening" while being asleep.

There was one time i had an early night for no specific reason, and a friend that i had not seen (or thought about) in a pretty long time had tried phoning me. I woke up the next day and remembered a plain dream in which i would be talking to that person and them asking me how i have been. The next day, completely oblivous to the fact they had phoned me, the phone rang, and it was my friend who i had talked to in the dream. The first thing they said was "how have you been?".Which was a moment of chills running down my spine, as it was pretty freaky indeed.

I'd say there is some kind of awareness being "turned on" when we sleep, or possibly in the case of near death experiences in regards to the brain being "less active". To me, it seems like the consiousness breaks free in a few ways to experience something impossible, while still being connected to the "physical" world. I assume some methods of meditation or remote-viewing may be linked to this idea.

It's almost like our physical movements and generic thoughts are clouding the true power of the brains capabilities.

The reason i put this here is because in relation to "how can i be sure i am myself when waking". Sometimes i have been asleep and been able to see through someone elses eyes, i find it rare that i can see myself in a dream (such as a mirror, or my own hands) which gives me the impression i never seem to be myself in a dream... upon hearing or reading about something the next day i recall a previous dream that i somehow remember and realise i may have witnessed whatever was going on during the time i was asleep, although through a different perspective, it can turn out to be an identical event.

I find it very interesting you say that "we create our existance" within waking... as mind boggling as it is, maybe our brains conjour up what is going to happen the next day? Sometimes we may be able to see it before it happens, because we created it? I'll stop writing before i give people major headaches.

reply to post by Basilisk


what if...while your awake your brain(a computer)is monitored by who ever created it but has no intervention...then when you sleep you have control with out their knowledge and can tell them f off

reply to post by Basilisk


I think you know fully well there is no way to disprove this. I could say scars, but you could say we create the scars to provide realism, just like every other bit of physical proof anyone could suggest.

Simple logic, though, it always works. If this were true we would live our lives by it and not waste time dreaming about a useless past.