Man's First Sin

Throughout my early years growing up as a Christian I was always under the impression that Christ's crucifixion was a necessary sacrifice to forgive mankind of our "sin"....so if we are forgiven of that sin then where does that leave the cause of that sin, which is Lucifer/Satan? Is Satan also forgiven by the blood of Christ? And if God doesn't forgive Satan could he still be all loving and forgiving?

Would be glad to hear any and all feedback on this matter...I personally believe mankind is only a small part of the game (we've never been the main focus imo) and the real resolution still lies with the two opposing universal forces of Light (God) and Dark (Satan).

In my opinion it's simply a plot hole not addressed by the authors, Genesis is full of them.

reply to post by baalbuster


If I smash my dads windshield out and he forgives me , Im in the good with him, but if keep doing it then no Im sure he’s gonna do something about it, like not forgiving me.

I ask because to me this is one of the biggest holes in Christian dogma....if a Christian could explain this to me it would be great

satan is a piece of sh-t and declared war with God. he has to pay. simple as that.

reply to post by randomname


So Satan is the cause that makes God not "all forgiving"? If God can't forgive one of his first creations then what happens to us one day when He's having a heavenly mood swing? Humans have done plenty of #ed up # to condemn us for an eternity or more.

reply to post by Sippy Cup


or just making sure you don't mess with his windshield or get anywhere near it anymore....but even if you did isn't a good parent supposed to love their child no matter how many times they # up? Isn't that what being "all forgiving" is about?

reply to post by baalbuster

...if a Christian could explain this to me it would be great

I was raised within the church but have since graduated from there. If you are still listening: Adams first sin was to eat of the tree of life. Then he blamed her and then she blamed the Devil. How's that go? "The Devil made me do it." If I tell you to do something and you do it then who's to blame?

And by the way, the tree of life was in the first greenhouse on earth. All the fruit on there was invaluable to seeding the future plant life on garden earth. Eating any fruit from there was a huge crime. Set the process back immeasurably. So thats why they were thrown out of the original garden. They couldn't be trusted to keep their hands off.

It's that simple... and that important.

reply to post by baalbuster



Right like keeping you away from it (windshield) so you are banished from the Garden of Eden.

So what about the other windows and body of the vehicle, or the house or his fav dinner ware?
You are not going to enjoy what I have if you can not behave!

reply to post by Sippy Cup


Then we're due for another Flood then

reply to post by intrptr


But why is it that it was the "fruit" of Knowledge that was one of the ONLY two forbidden? Why is man better left ignorant?

To me it appears that God wants us ignorant (banished for eating "fruit" of knowledge) and Divided (Confusing of Tongues at Babel).
Whats so sinful about Knowledge and Unity?
Heres to hoping that we get to a one world society so that The Lord may kick us in the nuts again!

A better question is why would an omnipresent god that knew this would happen leave the tree out to be eaten from in the first place....sounds like a set up to me

reply to post by baalbuster


I wonder that myself and the only thing I can think up is: I have a kids so would I let my kids play with a gun and possibly my kid shooting his/her self because I didn’t shelter him/her self from such dangers, at least until he/she is able to “UNDERSTAND” why it could be deadly at a young age to fool around with such.

I would assume a creator who created a perfect being knew that we being the perfect being had the ability to be like him/her but stalls us in our ignorance to save us.



I can follow both sides of the argument.

Originally posted by baalbuster
reply to post by intrptr

 

But why is it that it was the "fruit" of Knowledge that was one of the ONLY two forbidden? Why is man better left ignorant?

More like the knowledge of the "tree of life" is what is being guarded from us here. That must have been some tree. Can you imagine? It grows all the worlds fruits on it for seed production. Just my guessin around with it. Very special, very important tree for life here. Not to be messed with. The references to "knowledge" may simply be just that. Big Secret. The crux of the matter with the schemes of the devil and messin with humans and the operations in the original garden. Heapum big trouble back when.

We are better left ignorant of its real design and purpose so we don't lose focus on our lives here. You know, the be fruitful and multiply part. The be kind and forgiving to others part. Do unto others, etc. Only recently have we developed telescopes to see beyond our planet to other Galaxies and now we take even that for granted. Universe is full of life and new planets are being "seeded" with life all the time. That must be obvious to believers nowadays, but not so much for most of recorded history. We are still ignorant of it all, relatively speaking.

Twenty million species and still counting. Where does all that life come from? How does it get here? When do the "gardeners" return to harvest it all? Then what? I wish I knew...

Originally posted by mileysubet
A better question is why would an omnipresent god that knew this would happen leave the tree out to be eaten from in the first place....sounds like a set up to me

I bet it wasn't "left out", like you surmise. Such a special tree would have been carefully guarded. And trust of children not to peek or touch is never a problem, right? I guess free will must also have entered into it somewhat. Like I like that kind of golden rules, you know. And then there is always a bad apple who messes with the paradigm, right?

Put me to guarding that original green house...

Originally posted by baalbuster
reply to post by intrptr

 

But why is it that it was the "fruit" of Knowledge that was one of the ONLY two forbidden? Why is man better left ignorant?

And here a prime example how christianity creates confusion.

You are right - if we apply the christian belief, it would indeed seem God doesn't want us to gain knowledge.

If however, you read the same story in the Qur'an: It is not the "Tree of Knowledge" - it is simply one kind of a fruit which they should not eat - it was a kind of a test for them, and a lesson from God to not listen to satan who is an open enemy to them.



As a contrast to this, by the way, do you know what were the VERY FIRST words revealed to Muhammad from God?

READ, in the name of your Lord who created!
Created man from that which clinges.
READ and your Lord is the most bountiful.
Who taught by the pen,
Taught man that which he did not know.

He COMMANDS us to read and learn. The word "ikra" - means to read, recite, learn, GAIN KNOWLEDGE.

Originally posted by baalbuster
To me it appears that God wants us ignorant (banished for eating "fruit" of knowledge) and Divided (Confusing of Tongues at Babel).
Whats so sinful about Knowledge and Unity?
Heres to hoping that we get to a one world society so that The Lord may kick us in the nuts again!

Confusing our speech may have been a way to spread us out and fill the planet equally. Good idea (it worked).
Now we bumpin up against all the limitations of our once bountiful garden. Living all grouped together early on made us (humanity) too vulnerable to extinction by a plague or famine, wars, etc. Now theres almost nowhere left to turn.

Solomon said it best. "Of writing books there is no end, and knowledge is much weariness to the soul".
We're slowly choking on our technology (knowledge).

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi


wow, awesome qu'ran quote...always been meaning to give it a read and now I definitely will. Amazing how even these two closely connected religions can differ so much on the idea of wisdom.