Monster (NUCLEAR) Babies in Iraq

I will admit my ignorance entirely here, but aside from sounding bad-ass, what military purpose does the use depleted uranium shells actually serve? Is there something which makes them better at punching through armour and armour-plating?

Originally posted by dubiousone
What was the environment in Iraq like before the invasion? Did it suddenly get worse? Why and how? What kinds of birth defect causing chemicals, elements, and other contaminants and sewage did the invaders bring and spread around? Why didn't those kinds of birth defects occur before the invaders arrived?

We will never know what the birth defect stats were prior to the invasion...the country was run by a Dictator and his two whacked out offspring. Saddam did use chemical weapons on his own population from time to time and stored them all over the country inappropriately so we could start there. But let's keep it simple and just blame America with all sorts of other unfounded myths.

reply to post by TedHodgson


Yeah I'll take. I lived on the Tuwaitha Nuclear Complex in Iraq in 2008. It housed the Osiris (Osiraq) Nuclear Reactor that the Iraqi government bought from the French in 1976 and the Israelis bombed in '81.

Wiki

Anyway, there were stories during the occupation of the time period between the facility being abandoned due to the collapse of Saddam's government and the Marines finding the complex. Citizens of the surrounding towns looted barrels of natural uranium for personal water storage. So that means people were wandering this complex, emptying 50 gallon drums of uranium onto the ground, then taking those barrels home to hold their families' water.

I have enough on this quietly nuclear story for a thread, if anyone takes an interest. And yes, I've seen some birth defects... Iraq was a grim place at times.

Originally posted by duality90
I will admit my ignorance entirely here, but aside from sounding bad-ass, what military purpose does the use depleted uranium shells actually serve? Is there something which makes them better at punching through armour and armour-plating?

D.U. penetrator performance is substantially superior to traditional High Explosive Anti Tank Rounds, particularly when tasked with the types of multi layer composite armor used on modern Main Battle Tanks.

In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets.

DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.

DU can be used to engage the enemy at greater distances than tungsten penetrators or high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds because of improved ballistic properties. When they strike a target, tungsten penetrators blunt while DU has a self-sharpening property. DU ammunition routinely provides a 25 percent increase in effective range over traditional kinetic energy rounds.

On impact with a hard target (such as a tank) the penetrator may generate a cloud of DU dust within the struck vehicle that ignites spontaneously creating a fire that increases the damage to the target.

Due to the pyrophoric nature of DU, many of the DU particles and fragments that are formed during and following impact and perforation will spontaneously ignite, resulting in a shift of the particle size probability distribution function to a smaller mean diameter.

As a result of physical differences between DU and its oxides, the oxide particles tend to crumble under relatively weak mechanical forces, further shifting the particle size to an even smaller mean diameter.
Depleted Uranium [DU]

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


I read the propaganda that you posted. There is a glaring flaw in the paper, one that would be easily overlooked by someone ready to buy in to the propaganda. The study is based on hereditary birth defects due to past radiation exposure of the parents. It makes no mention of the radiation causing the fetus to be malformed. Do you get it? It's like saying (and I pull from the piece presented) that those that lived through the atomic bombs of ww2 had children way after the bombs had dropped and the bulk of the radiation cleared. The children were not affected by hereditary diseases due to past radiation exposure of the parent.

Well, these babies are being bombarded from conception, during term, and up till birth. It has squat to do with hereditary issues and everything to do with being exposed to DU, which the propaganda piece failed to mention. It was a clever misdirection that I hope few fall for. Was that clear enough for you?


My example was not appeal to emotion, it was a comparative example. I stated before that if you can't see the parallels, you obviously don't have enough grey matter to even have this debate.

I wonder when people like you are going to realize that TPTB don't give a damn about you and would use your torture or death for their gain without even thinking twice. Why do the sheep continuously defend the wolves that prey upon them? It's a question I've mulled over and over with no answer. Could you tell me please so I can stop being mind boggled?

The evidence is there that TPTB will do ANYTHING to further their agenda. Wake up.

Documented examples, not conspiracy theory, just so you can't refute:

Operation Northwoods. Probably would have started WW3, but TPTB didn't care. Tens of millions would have died. You nor I would probably be alive today if this was allowed to happen, as the joint chiefs of staff wanted.

Gulf of Tonkin false flag: Close to 60k Americans dead and over 200k casualties. Close to 1 million Vietnamese dead over a f'n LIE. Those people died on a LIE.

It is now readily accepted with historians that Roosevelt knew that the Pearl Harbor attack was going to happen and that he wanted it to happen to draw us into WW2. We had already broken the Japanese code and knew that there was a fleet on its way. OVER 1 MILLION dead and wounded Americans on an outright deception.

I could go on and on. But these are enough to prove my point. These are facts that can't be refuted. How can you defend the group that has killed so many people for a false agenda? Some of those dead were probably in your family tree somewhere.

Why do you so vehemently defend these scum when they have been proven to outright murder innocent people?

Now do you understand why I don't believe your propaganda piece? There is so much blood on our government's and other's hands that I cannot and will not take anything that they say at face value. I know their history and it isn't a good one.

reply to post by M1FST91


Perhaps something to do with the RAM on those f22s?

reply to post by duality90


Yeah, birth defects, gulf war syndrome, soldiers coming back with deadly cancers, dumping hundreds of tons of nuclear waste that will not disappear for millions of years, turning a country into a nuclear waste dump in the name of war profiteering, etc etc

yeah, sounds pretty "badass" to me.

Do some research.

It's interesting to see how people come into threads like this with an agenda. They immediately go for the conclusion that meets that agenda and ignore or attack anything else or anyone else saying something differently.

In the spirit of a community forum I will assume that you overlooked the multiple peer reviewed papers written by real accredited scientists with verifiable credentials that I posted just above...?

I believe if you were to take a moment and actually source the information being presented in this thread you will find that the only academically recognised work posted in this thread are the sources I provided.

post by Drunkenparrot

I believe in fact and evidence, not hyperbole and appeals to emotion.

Read the Robert Holloway paper, you will recognize quite a few names from the anti-DU movement who have been indisputedly involved in gross misrepresentation and falsification of data to push their own agenda's.

UPDATE - June, 2009 - Depleted uranium has become an unfashionable cause for the depleted uranium activists. It is old news. The Traprock Peace Center is now under new management with a new director and it appears that depleted uranium will no longer be a focus of the organization.

The few other organizations that were pressing this issue also are in decline. The website of Dr. Asaf Durakovic is dormant and it seems that he has retired from the fray. Leuren Moret and Doug Rokke seem to spend less time on the road drumming up interest in the subject.

The Military Toxics project has declining revenue. However, I will leave this site on the Internet for a few months longer, to address whatever interest there may still be in the subject.

What the hell does this prove? That their public funding is waning during a severe recession? Dr. Rokke is on the road less? It's because he is DYING due to exposure to DU. The man will probably be dead before the end of the year, show some respect.

So, will you take be up on my offer. I will modify and sweeten it for you. I will bet $10k that you would not eat a tablespoon of DU, and I have the money in the bank. It should be no problem for you, as your so called defense department says that you can literally eat it for breakfast with no ill effects. What say you?

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by SpaceJockey1

 

DU hasn't been used much in bombs. Mainly it is used as an anti-armor penetrator in the 30mm cannon of the A10 and in certain tank rounds.

this is true, the reason depleted uranium is even used (according to public knowledge) is the fact that it penetrates heavy metals. adding du to a dropped bomb would not make sense unless you dropped it directly onto a tank to pierce its armor. And from that altitude you would not need to have DU rounds because gravity would destroy an armored vehicle if a bomb was dropped squarely on it. Im pretty sure the conventional explosive dropped bomb would not need it.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


Reports early on in the war about WMD?!! I'm leaning towards they are still buried in the sand and nobody can find it or wants to find it.

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
It's interesting to see how people come into threads like this with an agenda. They immediately go for the conclusion that meets that agenda and ignore or attack anything else or anyone else saying something differently.

I research and expose the truth. If you call that an "agenda" so be it. As stated earlier, I have researched this subject to the hilt for about 5 years. No one is paying me to spout my opinions (like probably some others), I do this out of sheer respect for my fellow man and my utter disgust, hatred, and contempt for those that see others as nothing more than cannon fodder meant to die to further their ambitions. I would not be able to live with myself just letting this issue pass by.

I realize that your comment may not have been addressed to me, but I felt the need to respond.

It doesn't matter if it is depleted or enriched uranium, because both are terrible. We have had talks about this topic at least once before that I can remember here on the site, and I concluded that the evidence to support the conclusion that soldiers were using ER rounds is substantial. But don't take my word for it, just dig a bit and you will find credible scientists who are doing research on this very topic, even in this particular area.

Originally posted by angellicview

Wow, how utterly sad. The poor people of Iraq are still suffering from Saddam's mistakes and poor leadership decisions almost a decade after he was put to death.

Originally posted by Foxy1

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by SpaceJockey1

 

DU hasn't been used much in bombs. Mainly it is used as an anti-armor penetrator in the 30mm cannon of the A10 and in certain tank rounds.

this is true, the reason depleted uranium is even used (according to public knowledge) is the fact that it penetrates heavy metals. adding du to a dropped bomb would not make sense unless you dropped it directly onto a tank to pierce its armor. And from that altitude you would not need to have DU rounds because gravity would destroy an armored vehicle if a bomb was dropped squarely on it. Im pretty sure the conventional explosive dropped bomb would not need it.

Actually, it's used:

1) to get rid of DU stockpiles around the world
2) Up to 70% of it (after impact & explosion) VAPORIZES and goes airborne, making it an incredible long-term KILLER. Hence adding to 2000lb BOMBS is just ideal...not

Originally posted by strangernstrangeland

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
It's interesting to see how people come into threads like this with an agenda. They immediately go for the conclusion that meets that agenda and ignore or attack anything else or anyone else saying something differently.

I research and expose the truth. If you call that an "agenda" so be it. As stated earlier, I have researched this subject to the hilt for about 5 years. No one is paying me to spout my opinions (like probably some others), I do this out of sheer respect for my fellow man and my utter disgust, hatred, and contempt for those that see others as nothing more than cannon fodder meant to die to further their ambitions. I would not be able to live with myself just letting this issue pass by.

I realize that your comment may not have been addressed to me, but I felt the need to respond.

I wasn't speaking about anyone in particular but you fit my post quite well. You have done all of this research and, based on what you post, have only researched one possibility...the horrible Americans. Nothing about any of the other very plausible possibilities. You have an agenda and claim to have done research that is all about backing up that agenda. Perhaps you should do some research on how to do ethical research.

Originally posted by steveo007
reply to post by SpaceJockey1

 

Reports early on in the war about WMD?!! I'm leaning towards they are still buried in the sand and nobody can find it or wants to find it.

And in Syria. Saddam's general in charge of the Air Force testified and wrote a book detailing how the Russians came into Iraq and helped the regime scrub all traces of it's banned WMD program during the months the US was trying to garner support to resume the original 1991 conflict with Iraq. He testified that they removed the seats from commercial airliners to transfer all banned materials to Syria in the months leading up to the war.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Thanks for joining the thread JiggyP' and for your valued input.

It's good to know that others here are dedicated to researching the truth, especially when there's generally no funding to do so, while having to battle the great well funded BS war-machine, whose paid minions are on forums everywhere trying to debunk all discussion against their agenda(s).

Originally posted by duality90
I will admit my ignorance entirely here, but aside from sounding bad-ass, what military purpose does the use depleted uranium shells actually serve? Is there something which makes them better at punching through armour and armour-plating?

Yes, greatly increases the armor penetrating capabilities over standard munitions.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by steveo007
reply to post by SpaceJockey1

 

Reports early on in the war about WMD?!! I'm leaning towards they are still buried in the sand and nobody can find it or wants to find it.

And in Syria. Saddam's general in charge of the Air Force testified and wrote a book detailing how the Russians came into Iraq and helped the regime scrub all traces of it's banned WMD program during the months the US was trying to garner support to resume the original 1991 conflict with Iraq. He testified that they removed the seats from commercial airliners to transfer all banned materials to Syria in the months leading up to the war.

Man, that's so convenient...sure it wasn't the CIA wrote it and used his name, promised not to execute him , plus handed him a few million to retire on? I mean come on...a top general in Saddam's AF and he and his family end up living in the US, plus get a rosey book deal (what's wrong with this picture), while most of Saddam's mob are locked up and executed???

Well I guess Syria's close to getting 'some' real soon, though given that the book was written in 2006 you have to wonder why NO ACTION had been taken against Syria?