Monster (NUCLEAR) Babies in Iraq

reply to post by pteridine


Hi pteridine, to answer your 'mos' question, it means: Military Occupational Specialty

On the question of DU exposure, it doesn't have to mean in contact with DU munitions...it is most likely from exposure to airborne radiation (fallout). Bit like being exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam, for those serving there.

Of course this problem isn't just unique to Iraq. Similar issues have been reported in other countries that have been bombed over recent decades, and no doubt we'll soon be seeing similar reports from Libya.

Cancer Cases in Yugoslavia Rise Sharply Due to NATO Bombings

Cancer cases in certain regions of Serbia and Kosovo have increased sharply following NATO's air strikes against Yugoslavia, Serb ecologists said Wednesday.

Speaking at a press conference in the northern Greek city of Thessaloniki, Serb ecologists Biljana Tomasevic and Budomir Babic said that cancer cases across Serbia after the Kosovo war have increased by 30 percent, the semi-official Athens News Agency (ANA) reported.

They added that in the areas that were bombed, this increase is estimated at 200 percent.

The consequences of the war in Bosnia are even more serious, they said, adding that 500 out of 5,000 Serbs transferred to the Serb quarters of Sarajevo and Bosnia five years ago have since died of leukemia and other cancers.

The two Serb ecologists said that the 31,000 depleted uranium bombs used by NATO in Yugoslavia have left behind a total of 15 tons of nuclear waste and, if Yugoslavia wants them to be cleaned, the country's soil must be removed at a depth of two meters.

----

The following also makes harrowing reading: DU Trojan Horse

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


We have a history of using Depleted Uranium ammunition in Iraq.. it's quite possible that if the area was a hotbed for military action and strong resistance, that US Armor moved into the region, or some aircraft can also be equipped to fire the DU rounds. So it's quite possible that DU rounds were used in the city, and if they were they are radioactive, if you're in close contact to a spent round and may not know it, or when the rounds strikes a target it "powders" from impact, that powder is left as a residue that can be ingested or inhaled.

Edit to add sorry didn't read the whole thread, I see others brought up DU.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I think that people just hear DU ammunition (rounds) and assume that these are mostly rifle, machine gun or tank fired projectiles, but what we are really talking about is the thousands of lb's dropped via bombs...carpet bombing, that caused massive volumes of radiative dust to spread across vast areas.

Totally CRIMINAL and against all agreed conventions!

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


I know what an MOS is but this line "Oh and my mos is a fighter pilot raptors" is pure BS by a semi-literate poseur. The keyboard commando doesn't realize that the USAF does not use MOS codes, they use AFSC codes as any pilot would have told you. The officers have officer versions such as 11FX for fighter pilot and will have an additional number to indicate further qualifications.
No Raptors have been deployed to the middle east. People who are most at risk are those who handle ammunition and those on the ground, not those flying the planes.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


True, it does violate the various conventions we signed. But DU as far as I know is not used in "carpet bombing". The objective of DU is that it is very dense.. it's used as armor penetrating, and often in Iraq used on a smaller scale to blast through walls. It's also used as armor plating. You're right that it has multiple purposes (though I do not believe they are used in conventional bombs) most likely the residue ingested was used from ground fighting in an urban setting. If ingested by a pregnant woman it is very possible for even the minute levels of radiation to cause birth defects. Of course there is also an abundance of other issues that could also give rise to an increased level of birth defects. Such as malnutrition, polluted drinking water, the use of drugs (which has increased since the war) or exposure to other chemical agents.

reply to post by pteridine


Okay, you asked a question and I replied to it accurately...you obviously were setting a 'trap' for the orginal poster

Regarding your further comment, pilots have to land eventually so who's to say that the air they had to breathe, wasn't contaminated from their own bombing actions, so they were just as likely to be affected as anyone else...karma?

reply to post by Rockpuck


Unfortunately it appears you haven't read thru some of the posts here or done enough research, as it's been pointed out that DU has been used in bomb creation & carpet bombing operations, starting as far back 1991 resulting in tens of thousands of post-war deaths (local civilian and returning military).

I deployed to Iraq twice and trust me, half those kids were walking around with noticeable defects anyways. Besides there would be no study of Falluja if we used nuclear weapons........because there would be no Falluja, or any neighboring cities either :/

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


DU hasn't been used much in bombs. Mainly it is used as an anti-armor penetrator in the 30mm cannon of the A10 and in certain tank rounds.

I don't know if they used nuclear weapons... I highly doubt they did... there would be much more evidence than just monster babies....

One of my good friends was on the invasion force ( he did it because it was his job, not because he agreed/disagreed with it). He was given a medical discharge, because he was sent to clear all the tanks and such that had been hit with the depleted uranium (D.U.) rounds.... He has a permanent lung problem now, that the doctors said would never go away.

Knowing that, I believe that the D.U. rounds could have more of an impact that the government is really willing to say.... I don't know if they were used in any other conflicts, but you could probably research it and find out.

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
reply to post by pteridine

 

Hi pteridine, to answer your 'mos' question, it means: Military Occupational Specialty

On the question of DU exposure, it doesn't have to mean in contact with DU munitions...it is most likely from exposure to airborne radiation (fallout). Bit like being exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam, for those serving there.

I trashed my password yesterday and deleted the recovery e-mail to take a break here: but I can't let this go:
YES: "MOS" does indeed mean military occupational speciality"
HOWEVER;
it is a term used by the ARMY and Marines,: usaf uses "AFSC" Air force specialty codes(both officers and enlisted),. here's the important part:

Only the USAF Flies THE F22 RAPTOR.
No Raptor pilot has an "mos"...

I'm calling B.s. on your "bona-fides"

"Raptor pilot"my fuzzy retired USAF msgt butt...

"depleted uranium" is used in projectiles because it is heavy and denser than steel so it penetrates armor.particle are dangerous but it is not used as a "nuclear weapon" for its slightly radioactive effects as hype artists will try tell you.

The United States Air Force is the only operator of the F-22. It has ordered 187 aircraft with the last to be received in 2012

wiki
I checked to see if we(lockheed martin) might have sold some to overseas forces but seems not.

reply to post by SpaceJockey1


The only "bomb" that DU is used in is penetrating explosives, such as a "Bunker Buster" bomb.. putting DU in a typical 2000lb bomb makes absolutely no sense what so ever. In the 90's as you specify their application was in anti-personnel explosives such as cluster bombs, grenades and mines. Those are not used anymore, and have not for some time. There's never been an application where DU was used in a 2000lb bomb. We also don't "carpet bomb" cities.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I'm sorry Rockpuck, but if it's been reported that what I'm claiming has happened in Iraq, has also recently taken place in Libya...read about the DU 2000lb bombs:

JNN 13 April 2011 : The Stop the War Coalition says the bombs and missiles that the US-led military alliance has dropped on several Libyan cities contain depleted uranium (DU).

The report recently published on the Coalition’s website said that in the first 24 hours of the war on Libya, dozens of bombs and cruise missiles were launched by US, British, and French forces all with depleted uranium warheads.

US B-2 aircraft dropped forty-five 2,000-pound bombs on key Libyan cities, it added.

DU munitions are controversial because they raise long-term health concerns like kidney damage, cancer, skin disorders and genetic defects.

“[Depleted uranium tipped missiles] fit the description of a dirty bomb in every way… I would say that it is the perfect weapon for killing lots of people,” said Marion Falk, chemical physicist (retd.), Lawrence Livermore Lab in California.

In the first 24 hours of the Libyan attack, US B-2s dropped forty-five 2,000-pound bombs. These massive bombs, along with the Cruise missiles launched from British and French planes and ships, all contained depleted uranium (DU) warheads.

“[Depleted uranium tipped missiles] fit the description of a dirty bomb in every way… I would say that it is the perfect weapon for killing lots of people.” ~ Marion Falk, chemical physicist (retd), Lawrence Livermore Lab, California, USA

DU is the waste product from the process of enriching uranium ore. It is used in nuclear weapons and reactors. Because it is a very heavy substance, 1.7 times denser than lead, it is highly valued by the military for its ability to punch through armored vehicles and buildings. When a weapon made with a DU tip strikes a solid object like the side of a tank, it goes straight through it, then erupts in a burning cloud of vapor. The vapor settles as dust, which is not only poisonous, but also radioactive.

An impacting DU missile burns at 10,000 degrees C. When it strikes a target, 30% fragments into shrapnel. The remaining 70% vaporises into three highly-toxic oxides, including uranium oxide. This black dust remains suspended in the air and, according to wind and weather, can travel over great distances. If you think Iraq and Libya are far away, remember that radiation from Chernobyl reached Wales.

Particles less than 5 microns in diameter are easily inhaled and may remain in the lungs or other organs for years. Internalized DU can cause kidney damage, cancers of the lung and bone, skin disorders, neurocognitive disorders, chromosome damage, immune deficiency syndromes and rare kidney and bowel diseases. Pregnant women exposed to DU may give birth to infants with genetic defects. Once the dust has vaporised, don’t expect the problem to go away soon. As an alpha particle emitter, DU has a half life of 4.5 billion years.

In the ‘shock and awe’ attack on Iraq, more than 1,500 bombs and missiles were dropped on Baghdad alone. Seymour Hersh has claimed that the US Third Marine Aircraft Wing alone dropped more than “five hundred thousand tons of ordnance”. All of it DU-tipped.

Al Jazeera reported that invading US forces fired two hundred tons of radioactive material into buildings, homes, streets and gardens of Baghdad. A reporter from the Christian Science Monitor took a Geiger counter to parts of the city that had been subjected to heavy shelling by US troops. He found radiation levels 1,000 to 1,900 times higher than normal in residential areas. With its population of 26 million, the US dropped a one-ton bomb for every 52 Iraqi citizens or 40 pounds of explosives per person.

William Hague has said that we are in Libya ” to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas”.You don’t have to look far for who and what are being ‘protected’.

In that first 24 hours the ‘Allies’ ‘expended’ £100 million on DU-tipped ordnance. The European Union’s arms control report said member states issued licences in 2009 for the sale of £293.2 million worth of weapons and weapons systems to Libya. Britain issued arms firms licences for the sale of £21.7 million worth of weaponry to Libya and were also paid by Colonel Gadaffi to send the SAS to train his 32nd Brigade.

For the next 4.5 billion years, I’ll bet that William Hague will not be holidaying in North Africa.

I like the thread. I see how you raising this issue and asking some questions is positive for all of us to ponder. Obviously something is going on. If the issue of urainium dipped ammunition has been explained both ways maybe a different modern day weapon was the cause? Was the military using high tech imagry equipment to look through walls. Would this be like being exposed to a super x-ray? How large of area may be affected? Would that be cancer causing? anyone know of any weapon like this?

Maybe war itself is the cause?

An interesting thread, however, I don't believe it is fair to say that DU was responsible for the defects as fact.

a) There is an increase in birrth abnormalities.
b) Depleted Uranium ammunition was used.

Neither facts is in dispute. However you cannot state a) because of b) as fact, until you have ruled out all possible alternative explanations. All you can say is b) is the most likely reason for a).

Here's another one for you.

a) All men have testicles.
b) Some men act stupid.

Does it mean b) because of a)? Well, maybe it does...

In my personal opinion, it is the most likely case that the use of DU ammunition has given rise to the number of birth defects. However it is in no order, "a fact".

Depleted uranium is less radioactive than natural uranium by a factor of 40%. As a kid, I had uranium in my chemistry set. No ill effects. You probably have radium on your watch hands, if you have watch hands. You breathe radon gas. You are exposed to solar radiation. You get an xray once in awhile. www.gulflink.osd.mil...

More than likely, the birth defects are a result of incest in the region, or poor living conditions during warfare. As you know, we try to keep our women as healthy as possible whenever they are pregnant.

I live in Rammstein Air Base and see a lot of cargo transported over to the Middle East, heck this was headquarters for the transport of weaponry to Iraq! I knew a cop that worked for cargo security with a high clereance, so just out of fun I asked him one day
"So did you guys bring over your nukes for lunch?"....I was joking at first but he did not react the way I thought he would.

"Seriously, I'm not allowed to talk about it, but I can tell you this much: would it really be that suprising?"

The military uses many toxic metals in its equipment for various properties:

"Berylium" is another one I remember; its dust is toxic when handled/machined (heated). Depleted Uranium is another metal it is molded and machined into projectiles to penetrate armor; not "dipped" or "tipped" as mentioned above.

O.p.You still haven't addressed my dispute of your: raptor pilot/"MOS" comment...
All your sources are typical hysterical liberal anti-war/environmentalist "types". You are spreading wild speculation.

Originally posted by Anim8tr
I live in Rammstein Air Base and see a lot of cargo transported over to the Middle East, heck this was headquarters for the transport of weaponry to Iraq! I knew a cop that worked for cargo security with a high clereance, so just out of fun I asked him one day
"So did you guys bring over your nukes for lunch?"....I was joking at first but he did not react the way I thought he would.

"Seriously, I'm not allowed to talk about it, but I can tell you this much: would it really be that suprising?"

Nuclear munitions would not be transported as just "cargo".

"2 man policy" (24hour no lone zone policies) apply. You can't just lock a fence; post a guard and and call it "good.They are controlled and stored in alarmed weapon storage areas cleared for "nuclear surety"( safety and security by the: "DNA" defense nuclear agency"). All kinds of security specifications have to be met.(I used to work in that world; AFSC 463xx)