Noah and the great flood, unanswered questions

Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by Hellhound604

 

and the lions/wolves didn't eat the rabbits/sheep because........
(they didnt like it when I asked that as a child......I never really understood)

edit on 31-12-2011 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)

I always also thought the animals on the ark must have been the sickest, because they had to carry all the parasites than can only exist inside them, in the 2 of them, so, they must've had such a huge parasite-load and zoogenic load, lol. can only feel sorry for them, and I guess the kangaroos really had a rough time hopping back to Australia, the Polar bears back North, and the Penguins back South

Before this thread gets closed for being well off topic I will try to answer this.

No there were many more than 40 animals.

Each clean animal had 7 of each male and females=14 per species. 14 sheep, 14 goats, 14 etc

There is a theory that before the Flood, some animals had been corrupted to eat other animals. (In fact cheetah mums still have to teach their kittens to eat live food, it doesn't come naturally.) Maybe veg had more protein then?

The Book of Jasher tells us a lot more than the Bible does about the Flood. Noah was actually a very brave man. Google it.

There was a global flood and because of the chaos that left, the climate swung wildly hot and then cold, even ice ages in very short time periods, causing the Washington scrub lands and the English Channel, etc and the memories of local floods.

The Ark was known about before the Medieval ages, it was then buried by an earthquake to keep it safe and in early 1900s an earthquake revealed it. BUT no one would believe it and many fundamentalist Christians still don't.

www.amazon.co.uk...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325379679&sr=8-1

This book was written by two archaeologists and there is an actual sign in Turkey saying;

[This way to Noah's Ark]

So the locals believe it is Noah's ark!

It was made of reeds covered in a concrete mix, with a oak structure above, that has almost rotten away. How they found this oak structure, was using ground radar, which detected iron rods at equidistants.

Any other questions? I started asking questions about the Ark when I was 8yrs and haven't stopped.

BTW the House of reeds was actually the old name for fibre optic cabling, which was found in the structure!!

I know many will be incredulous, I don't care, as this is what they found.
Proves the saying 'nothing new under the Sun' is true!!!! They probably had better technology than us.

Happy new year.

Originally posted by AriesJedi
Before this thread gets closed for being well off topic I will try to answer this.

No there were many more than 40 animals.

Each clean animal had 7 of each male and females=14 per species. 14 sheep, 14 goats, 14 etc

There is a theory that before the Flood, some animals had been corrupted to eat other animals. (In fact cheetah mums still have to teach their kittens to eat live food, it doesn't come naturally.) Maybe veg had more protein then?

The Book of Jasher tells us a lot more than the Bible does about the Flood. Noah was actually a very brave man. Google it.

There was a global flood and because of the chaos that left, the climate swung wildly hot and then cold, even ice ages in very short time periods, causing the Washington scrub lands and the English Channel, etc and the memories of local floods.

The Ark was known about before the Medieval ages, it was then buried by an earthquake to keep it safe and in early 1900s an earthquake revealed it. BUT no one would believe it and many fundamentalist Christians still don't.

www.amazon.co.uk...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325379679&sr=8-1

This book was written by two archaeologists and there is an actual sign in Turkey saying;

[This way to Noah's Ark]

So the locals believe it is Noah's ark!

It was made of reeds covered in a concrete mix, with a oak structure above, that has almost rotten away. How they found this oak structure, was using ground radar, which detected iron rods at equidistants.

Any other questions? I started asking questions about the Ark when I was 8yrs and haven't stopped.

BTW the House of reeds was actually the old name for fibre optic cabling, which was found in the structure!!

I know many will be incredulous, I don't care, as this is what they found.
Proves the saying 'nothing new under the Sun' is true!!!! They probably had better technology than us.

Happy new year.

Happy new year to you too, but I want links, and a piece of that so-called fibre optic cabling that I can test for myself, or have it sent away to be tested by an independent testing lab.

Originally posted by vogon42
Had to bring this up, since it was touched on in another thread, but was off topic.

As a child, they taught me that the great flood was a global event, but I now see others were taught it was a local event. Specific to the black sea region.

Also
I believed two of every animal were put on the ark. Now I find others who tell me there were only 40 animals on the ark.

If there were only 20 species ( 1 male, 1 female, 40 total = 20 species)
How is it we have so much diversity in wild life from only 20 species? Wouldn't this involve species evolving?
Isn't the main stream of religion agains evolution?

So summary of what I'm really curious about.....
The great flood - global or local?
The animals on the ark - how many were there, did they include every species.....or is evolution involved.

edit on 31-12-2011 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-12-2011 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)

Because the bible is a condensed book of the events that took place. If God had told Moses everything he did and what went on Moses would still be writing the Torah today. God told Moses what was relevant to man that he needed to know for salvation. We will find out the rest if were worthy enough to make it to heaven.

I was hoping to find this thread already filled with great, Bible-based answers. Not so much... so I'll make my own attempt. Answers are as follows:

Originally posted by vogon42
Also
I believed two of every animal were put on the ark. Now I find others who tell me there were only 40 animals on the ark.

If there were only 20 species ( 1 male, 1 female, 40 total = 20 species)
How is it we have so much diversity in wild life from only 20 species? Wouldn't this involve species evolving?
Isn't the main stream of religion agains evolution?

Elements of evolution are considered by both sides of the debate as being scientific fact. What Creationists will argue against is the idea that evolution can, by natral processes, add new information to the genome. Note that I've said NEW information. More information is not new information (e.g if I give you two copies of the book "a Tale of Two Cities", I haven't added new information, I've just given you more of the same). In order to increase the complexity of an organism, you (and excuse the crude analogy) would have to perform a process like adding new letters to an existing alphabet. Adding new letters would be adding new information. Duplicating existing letters is not.

So with that in mind... what you're looking at in evolutionary terms is a post-flood degenerative process. What this means is that a single species variated and speciated out into numerous species; that is to say that all dogs, for example, speciated from a single ancestor that had the genetic information to produce all the numerous species we have today. This occurred through a process of evolutionary genetic degeneration and speciation. Thus a single species can evolve into many, with each of the speciations containing LESS genetic information than the originator.

Hopefully that makes sense. With that said though, I wouldn't put a figure like 40 on it. Plus the ark was MASSIVE, it could have fit a LOT more animals than that. 2x of every species, but 7x of all of the "clean" species.

So summary of what I'm really curious about.....
The great flood - global or local?
The animals on the ark - how many were there, did they include every species.....or is evolution involved.

To summarise:

Global (the Bible is clear on that; water covered the highest mountains etc., water broke up from under the surface of the earth and rained down from the skies, there is more than enough water in the global system for this to occur),.

How many species? We don't know - but certainly many less than there were today. Animals devolved from ancestors with sufficient genetic information to produce offspring of numerous species. It did, however, include every species present on the planet at that time that could not survive outside the ark (e.g no need to take fish etc.).

There have been feasability studies done on the Ark. If you're really interested in the topic, these might be a good place to start... whereas evidence for the global flood is all around us. Personally I believe that much of the evidence that is interpreted as supporting billions of years is simply misinterpreted. This is an issue with the concept of uniformity as much as anything else. To assume that life has always continued on a fairly uniform basis is... well, unfounded at best.

Anyway. Hope that helps.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ETeeTime

 

Now THAT is an interesting answer. A DNA bank, eh?

Myself, I am beginning to take the Ancient Aliens theories much to heart. They actually make sense to me.

To me, the story of Noah's Ark is about genetics more than morality.

The vessel of the Ark described is larger than some Zoo's today, plus it had two levels so it could potentially have held a fairly diverse menagerie.

However, prior to Noah, there is a mention of "The Sons of God" breeding with "The Daughters of Men" and their progeny were "The Fallen Ones" who were "the mighty men", whose appetites grew until they began consuming those around them.

We know from other cultures that these demi-gods were often represented with animal and human physiology combined. So it looks like these offspring were some sort of hybrid creatures. The Hebrew traditions describe these as such too.

Noah, was specifically selected by God as "pure in all his generations" and so I would assume that this hybridization was spreading and affecting the gene pool of all living creatures, corrupting the original DNA.

You see, the destruction of the known world because of people being sinful is a little over the top but as a genetic purge it makes some sense.

The ark, then, contained the pure bloodlines of the planet.

Prior to the flood, the Earth was a warmer greenhouse world with a cloud canopy which had not collapsed (like Venus is currently). God collapsed the canopy and also, I believe, caused the tectonics of the planet to release the water that had been trapped inside the Earth at the same time, changing the Earths climate and starting up the hydrological cycles we are familiar with today.

Don't assume that the people of the time were technologically inept. They were obviously messing with genetics to the point where things had gotten out of hand.

Jesus also mentioned that when He returned it would be the same as in "the days of Noah".

So, perhaps the story is deeper and more literal than what you imagined of it as a child

Here is one view (preceded by an intro to get us from Adam and Eve to Noah:

So the First Pair went forth from the Garden under a curse -- a permanent one. They had lost every pleasure they had possessed before "The Fall"; and yet they were rich, for they had gained one worth all the rest: they knew the Supreme Art.

They practiced it diligently and were filled with contentment. The Deity ordered them to practice it. They obeyed, this time. But it was just as well it was not forbidden, for they would have practiced it anyhow, if a thousand Deities had forbidden it.

Results followed. By the name of Cain and Abel. And these had some sisters; and knew what to do with them. And so there were some more results: Cain and Abel begot some nephews and nieces. These, in their turn, begot some second cousins. At this point classification of relationships began to get difficult, and the attempt to keep it up was abandoned.

The pleasant labor of populating the world went on from age to age, and with prime efficiency; for in those happy days the sexes were still competent for the Supreme Art when by rights they ought to have been dead eight hundred years. The sweeter sex, the dearer sex, the lovelier sex was manifestly at its very best, then, for it was even able to attract gods. Real gods. They came down out of heaven and had wonderful times with those hot young blossoms. The Bible tells about it.

By help of those visiting foreigners the population grew and grew until it numbered several millions. But it was a disappointment to the Deity. He was dissatisfied with its morals; which in some respects were not any better than his own. Indeed they were an unflatteringly close imitation of his own. They were a very bad people, and as he knew of no way to reform them, he wisely concluded to abolish them. This is the only really enlightened and superior idea his Bible has credited him with, and it would have made his reputation for all time if he could only have kept to it and carried it out. But he was always unstable -- except in his advertisements -- and his good resolution broke down. He took a pride in man; man was his finest invention; man was his pet, after the housefly, and he could not bear to lose him wholly; so he finally decided to save a sample of him and drown the rest.

That was the prelude. Here is about Noah:

No, he [God] would not have it so; he would save half a dozen and try the race over again. He was not able to foresee that it would go rotten again, for he is only the Far-Sighted One in his advertisements.

He saved out Noah and his family, and arranged to exterminate the rest. He planned an Ark, and Noah built it. Neither of them had ever built an Ark before, nor knew anything about Arks; and so something out of the common was to be expected. It happened. Noah was a farmer, and although he knew what was required of the Ark he was quite incompetent to say whether this one would be large enough to meet the requirements or not (which it wasn't), so he ventured no advice. The Deity did not know it wasn't large enough, but took the chances and made no adequate measurements. In the end the ship fell far short of the necessities, and to this day the world still suffers for it.

Noah built the Ark. He built it the best he could, but left out most of the essentials. It had no rudder, it had no sails, it had no compass, it had no pumps, it had no charts, no lead-lines, no anchors, no log, no light, no ventilation, and as for cargo room -- which was the main thing -- the less said about that the better. It was to be at sea eleven months, and would need fresh water enough to fill two Arks of its size -- yet the additional Ark was not provided. Water from outside could not be utilized: half of it would be salt water, and men and land animals could not drink it.

For not only was a sample of man to be saved, but business samples of the other animals, too. You must understand that when Adam ate the apple in the Garden and learned how to multiply and replenish, the other animals learned the Art, too, by watching Adam. It was cunning of them, it was neat; for they got all that was worth having out of the apple without tasting it and afflicting themselves with the disastrous Moral Sense, the parent of all immoralities.

Letters from the Earth by Mark Twaiin

reply to post by chr0naut

However, prior to Noah, there is a mention of "The Sons of God" breeding with "The Daughters of Men" and their progeny were "The Fallen Ones" who were "the mighty men", whose appetites grew until they began consuming those around them.

We know from other cultures that these demi-gods were often represented with animal and human physiology combined. So it looks like these offspring were some sort of hybrid creatures. The Hebrew traditions describe these as such too.

No argument there. So, do you believe in the Ancient Aliens theory that there were visitors here who "hybridized" humans with animals...?

Originally posted by jack burton
www.youtube.com...

Couldn't put it any better.

Thanks for that. That is some funny stuff!

Brilliant!!
Here's another (saw this one live)....


EDIT: Actually, the performance I saw live was funnier than this one, but .... well, you get the drift (pun intended).

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by chr0naut

 

However, prior to Noah, there is a mention of "The Sons of God" breeding with "The Daughters of Men" and their progeny were "The Fallen Ones" who were "the mighty men", whose appetites grew until they began consuming those around them.

We know from other cultures that these demi-gods were often represented with animal and human physiology combined. So it looks like these offspring were some sort of hybrid creatures. The Hebrew traditions describe these as such too.

No argument there. So, do you believe in the Ancient Aliens theory that there were visitors here who "hybridized" humans with animals...?

More like intelligent beings occupying a different slice of dimensions to the ones obvious to us now. These were (and are) the angels.

They were the original rulers over the matter universe but were more automata than souls like humans. Kind of like really advanced AI's. Their society was highly organized and their roles in it tightly defined. There has been an estimate that there are over 20 billion angels of various types.

God had other ideas and created humans to arise and dominate and hinted that in the distant future humans would achieve things far beyond the capability of the most powerful angels.

Most of the angels were given roles to "shepherd" the new arising human species towards their goal of ascension.

The top or arch-angel, Lucifer or light bringer, whose role was supposed to be "the annointed angel that covers" (whatever that means) disagreed with this destiny and said he will lift himself above the throne of God and in the process led 1/3 of all the angels to follow his cause.

He has been trying to disrupt the ascent of humanity and to assert himself since then.

These fallen angels (only about 100 of them) gave knowledge directly to humans (rather than letting them find out for themselves) in the hope that they would miss-apply it and support the fallen angels cause rather than their own.

The actions of deception that Lucifer (now called Satan) used, removed the right of human dominance over the matter world in a strict legal sense.

reply to post by vogon42


Dear vogon42,

This is in response to your OP. Flood stories are found in societies all over the earth. We do not know why these stories are global. As for the book of Genesis, it provides very little detail regarding quite a lot of things. The bigger issue is why was the world destroyed. The bible claims that man interbred with non-humans and Revelations says that in the end times it will be as it was in the day of Noah. We are now seeing scientists combine the dna of animals with humans. Many of us find this fact horrifying. We find it horrifying because it perverts our own natural evolution. The purpose of the story was to warn us about interbreeding with other species, in my opinion. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


Happy ATS-membership-anniversary!

So, do you, AQ, believe in the Ancient Aliens idea of visitors mixing DNA of species?

Originally posted by Hellhound604
hey, there were 2 of every animal on the ark. Including penguins, Polar bears, snakes, crocodiles, elephants, lions, tigers, mosquitoes, every type of insect, every type of worm, nematode, parasite, etc, etc, etc, AND enough food for them all. Sheez, didn't you read your bible?

The Bible never says Noah took "2 of every animal" on the ark.

Which Bible did you allegedly read?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So, what DOES it say, in your book? (pun intended)
Obviously there are people here who want to hear the version you find factual.

Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by Hellhound604

 

and the lions/wolves didn't eat the rabbits/sheep because........
(they didnt like it when I asked that as a child......I never really understood)

Do you not think Noah was smart enough to not build cages/stalls in the ark? Do you think he was too stupid not to realize baby animals would require less food to survive and would be a better breeding animal when the ark came to rest than an adult version?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sooooo....he had cages and stalls, and only baby animals?

Originally posted by three1zero
reply to post by vogon42

 

there is no real story either you are stupid or a troll
for your sake i hope you are a troll
please grow up two of every animal on a wodden ship are you demented or do you take that crap seriously

Where did you get the 'stupid' notion that the Biblical account stated that "two of every animal" was on the ark? You're making a straw man argument. How can you basically imply someone is ignorant, yet your brain is operating on a fallacy of logic in this matter????

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Where did you get the 'stupid' notion that the Biblical account stated that "two of every animal" was on the ark?

I realize I "replied" to one of your posts and "quoted" the other...it doesn't matter.
But I did a google search for "Biblical story of Noah's ark" and found this .... Genesis 6:

Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high.[d] 16 Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit[e] high all around.[f] Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

Now, pay CLOSE attention Not:

19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

www.biblegateway.com...
Hmmm? What Bible are YOU reading?