Obama signs defense bill despite 'reservations'

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


You seem pretty knowledgeable about the law...what can we as citizens do to get this overturned?

His "reservations" mean about as much as spit in the wind honestly. Fortunately ATS has standards about language because my true feelings about this bill involve quite colorful language and excessive volume as well. Whoever said we should have tried to stop it was right, we should have been trying to stop this government for years now but we haven't and it sure seems like their tool chest of laws to use against us has grown so much that its pretty much impossible to change course now. Honestly what options do we have left to resort to in order to effect the change necessary to dig the nation out of this downward spiral?

We knew this was coming and the other shoe has dropped. I feel deeply that America now must be defended from this takeover by ordinary citizens like us; the vast majority. We can do this. We can and will, return our homeland to the people for which it was founded. Bless us all through the times ahead.

reply to post by Kali74


Says the man who publicly assassinated an American citizen? What an idiot, and anyone who believes him is an idiot.

If you had "reservations" .. Don't sign the damn bill!

Congress gave the President authority to kill Americans without a Trial.
Congress gave the President authority to use the military and detain Americans in military prisons...forever without a trial.

Wouldn't you say we're under Martial Law? Either that or the United States of America created by a Constitution with a Bill of Rights.....no longer exists. Likely both.

Why do people worry about what barrack obama is doing, when all of congress is nothing other then a bunch of jackasses Even if he vetoed it, it would still go back to congress for a re-vote and probably pass anyway since the VAST majority supported it.

This looks to be another anti-left thread. One of VERY many lately!

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

You seem pretty knowledgeable about the law...what can we as citizens do to get this overturned?

I would first suggest you be careful about categorizing yourself as a "citizen". The problem with this most recent Act of Aggression by the United States Federal government against We the People in the NDAA of 2012 is the product of a very long, steady and systematic attack on the holders of the inherent political power.

Citizenship is not an unalienable right.

I've started a new paragraph because I want that last sentence to stand on its own in hopes the weight of its assertion sinks in deep enough for cognizance to fully understand its communication. Unalienable rights are those rights which cannot be alienated. Unalienable rights cannot be transferred, granted, or revoked. No one need ask permission for an unalienable right and no government has ever had any lawful authority to presume that they alone are the arbiters of what is and what is not an unalienable right and presume that they alone may grant such rights.

Civil rights, on the other hand, are not unalienable. Civil rights are extra privileges, such as citizenship, that governments create for their own purposes. The Civil Rights Movement was correctly named so at the time because it was largely a battle to get those Americans who were Black to use their civil right to vote. Voting, like citizenship, is not an unalienable right, it is a civil right. Today that Civil Rights Movement, along with organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union, have become a most imprudent replacement for the unalienable rights that preexist any government and belong to all people, everywhere, of all shapes, sizes, colors, creeds or religions.

I believe the first thing...the foundation of challenging the unconstitutional sections of the 2012 NDAA...that needs to be cemented is that this issue is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "civil rights" issue, this is a human rights issue. The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals was in error regarding Rumsfeld v. Padilla and given recent rulings by the Supreme Court, such as Citizens United v FEC and Bond v United States, not to mention even earlier rulings regarding an individuals right to keep and bear arms, it is reasonable to predict that were Sections 1021 and 1022 of the 2012 NDAA properly challenged, the Supreme Court would indeed hear the case and probably rule against the government and strike that portion of the Act down as unconstitutional.

What I mean by properly challenged is that the mistakes made by Padilla's team. In my opinion it is a mistake to argue that the government does not have the right to indefinitely detain American "citizens". The problem with this argument is that it is making a distinction of whom has rights, tacitly agreeing that people not American citizens do not have the same rights and that the U.S. federal government is not bound by the same Constitutional principles as they would be with "citizens". This tacit approval of indefinite detention without charge or trial implicitly undermines their arguments.

No government anywhere has the lawful authority to indefinitely detain any person without charge or trial. No constitution written by any form of government can grant lawful authority to indefinitely detain any person without charge or trial. A constitution is merely a piece of paper. Law is not merely a piece of paper. Legislation is merely a piece of paper. Legislation is not law anymore than a map is territory, a word the thing defined, or a picture of a pipe is a pipe. Law is simple, true, universal and absolute. If it is law it applies to everyone everywhere.

The unalienable rights of all people are law. One of the unalienable rights of all people is the right to Due Process of Law. Constitutionally speaking, the United States Federal government is bound by the Bill of Rights which makes no qualifications what-so-ever about citizenship. No one need be a citizen of the United States in order to assert their unalienable right to Due Process of Law if they have been detained by the Federal Government, regardless of the circumstances unless it is a military action under a Declaration of War.

This is an extremely complex problem that has shown brutal disregard for the effectiveness of simplicity. Simply speaking this Act of Aggression by the U.S. government is unlawful. Navigating through the seas of legality is the complexity that can overwhelm the unprepared mind. The more prepared one can be, by knowing the simple, true, universal and absoluteness of law, the easier it will be to keep it all simple. Simply speaking, the U.S. government has never had any lawful authority to detain anyone without charge or trial regardless of this pretend "war on terror".

reply to post by kawika
we will find out in 60 days if it holds up to being law full or not www.cnn.com... i will be back later to comment on this but for know read the CNN link, you get to be locked up and detained by moil then transferred to civilian if Obama says so.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Thank-you very much for that detailed post. Sometimes I think I have a good grasp on understanding law and politics then someone like you comes along lol. It gives me hope that this can be overturned, or at least the indefinite detention/without trial parts.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I'm actually left of center, I just don't blindly follow left though. Our President, regardless of whether it would have passed anyway without him, should not have signed this bill and he should be doing everything in his power to stop it.

The least we can do is recall John McCain the traitor who authored this bill.
THE GOVERNMENT IS THE TERRORIST!

The Recall John McCain Facebook page

reply to post by DanaKatherineScully


his replacement in the next election ( if he allows there to EVEN BE AN ELECTION ) will mean nothing with the bill still there and on the books. with the law still there, it gives the next president these happy little powers to imprison anyone whom he sees as a threat to him politically, label them a terrorist and they disapear for the rest of their lives never to be seen again. what really freaks me out is that Infowars.com broke news i think it was two weeks ago that the FEMA camps were going ACTIVE. this is backed up by documentation from KBR / Haliburton subsidiary, for independent contractors to man the camps and various services required by the camps such as Laundry services, Trash removal... Etc. this is not coincidence in my opinion. this is deliberate / pre meditated removal of political dissidents / constitutionalists / etc. they are preparing for a mass round up, just as in Germany when Hitler took power and started persecuting the Jews. to think that what happened there cant happen here is sheer Naivity or delusional thinking.

Originally posted by badkittie748
to think that what happened there cant happen here is sheer Naivity or delusional thinking.

Been there done that once already

McCarthyism

McCarthyism was the practice of making accusations of pro-Communist, anti-American disloyalty, subversion, or treason, which defenders of those accused consider to be without proper regard for evidence. The practice had its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting roughly from the late 1940s to the late 1950s and characterized by heightened fears of communist influence on American institutions and espionage by Soviet agents.

en.wikipedia.org...

How soon we forget...

reply to post by Kali74


overturning the law itself in its entirety would be impossible. the reason is because it is first and foremost a defense spending bill clearly outlining in some 600 pages specific programs to be funded. having provisions stricken from the bill would be a possibility IF our Congress wasnt so adamant that the average joe wasnt the enemy. they are for all intents and purposes AFRAID OF US. for what reason i cant explain but hasnt anyone noticed that many members of Congress are Criminals that engage in insider trading ( IE NANCY PELOSI) based on information they have about bills they debate and vote upon everyday?! i think the only thing that will stop this government from continuing this reign of terror its declared upon us there has to be a second American REVOLUTION. think V FOR VENDETTA OR MATRIX, EVEN THE PATRIOT for that matter. what was it that Benjamin Martin said in that movie " this war will not be fought on some distant battlefield but in our homes, amongst us, our children will learn of it with their own eyes." Character "V" said that "Behind this mask there is only flesh but Ideas are bulletproof" and if any of you are as ardent patriots as i we will stand against this rogue government and declare their crimes to the world!

reply to post by groingrinder

The least we can do is recall John McCain the traitor who authored this bill.
THE GOVERNMENT IS THE TERRORIST!

The Recall John McCain Facebook page

Not possible to recall Senators. They can be impeached. Not much the people can do except vote next time for someone else.

Or we could get out the torches and pitchforks and walk up there.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I'm actually left of center, I just don't blindly follow left though. Our President, regardless of whether it would have passed anyway without him, should not have signed this bill and he should be doing everything in his power to stop it.

What if he does not have the power to stop it? What if JFK and Abraham Lincoln were assinated by the bankers and this taught everyone their lesson?

Being left of center means you are right, at least in america. You have to go more left and have dictatorial powers. That will never happen as the military is right as in republican. Keep dreaming though as it lessens the pain I am sure.

reply to post by zorgon


Why do you give them the truth?

They want right wing propaganda!

It IS the american way.....THE AMERICAN DREAM....to become a millionare!

To play wall street and never work one day.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
That seems like a TOTAL cop out. He signed something into law that he KNOWS will allow for the detention of American citizens, but *HE* isn't going to do it, so I guess he thinks we can't possibly blame *HIM*.

He's always trying to cover himself, isn't he? Kind of like when he voted "present" all of those times so he wouldn't have to take a position.

I can not respect him for that one single bit.

It's a sign of the times. There's one thing you have to give to Obama the false Messiah. He gets more face time than Lindsay Lohan at a tabloid conferrence.

I watched his "welcome home" presentation to the troops returned from Iraq and he spent more time blowing rainbows and sunshine up Michelle's ass on national tv than he did welcoming our troops back and making them feel wanted.

Scary-O knows he is on the way out the door and that he won't be held responsible for what another president does. This is turning into one nice trend, first the Patriot Act, now we have the NDAA which is the Patriot Act 2.0. on steroids.

reply to post by Kali74


I visited the whitehouse.gov site and read the same thing.
Bascally, Obama is saying that while the US government "prison-rapes" you and your rights; he'll feel bad about it.

yay America! Way to go on the joker!

HAPPY NEW YEARS USA!~~!