A possible Holocaust conspiracy?

I was just thinking of something. The Katyn massacre was blamed on the Nazis by the Soviets, but 50 years later, in 1990, the Soviets apologized for it and now it's known fact that they were responsible.

Do you think it's possible many of the Jewish (and other) deaths that are attributed to Hitler and the Nazis were actually carried out by the Soviet Union? Of course, the Nazis would want to take credit for killings the Soviets did, if they were of Jews, and of course the Allies and Soviets would want to cover their behinds of their share of atrocities.

The Soviet Union was never anti-Semitic of course, in fact, it was philo-Semitic, but it was also ruthless in who they killed, and as many eastern Europeans of that time were Jewish, there's no reason not to think a large number of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were actually killed by the Soviets is there?

If true, the ramifications aren't exactly huge, but it's just a thought I had. Personally I think there's no way the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, I think they exaggerated their claims, just like serial killers tend to claim more murders than they actually are guilty of.

reply to post by lampsalot


So long as you know that denying the Holocaust in any way is a crime in some countries, including Germany. There were several concentration camps in other countries, but Germany was behind them too is my understanding. It could be that the Russians took the opportunity to kill a few of it's own Jews. I've read that they did, but I could be wrong.

reply to post by lampsalot


hi op
i know where you are coming from ive researched this for years
ive even had the oppertunity to speak to some ww2 vets yrs ago
lets not forget the 50ooo polish soldiers mainly officers that were murderd
be carefull what you say op tnc

dave

reply to post by lampsalot


To the best of my knowledge, the Soviets never blamed the Nazis for the Katyn massacre; they simply pretended it never happened. Although some of the revolutionaries were of Jewish descent, the Soviet Union was just as antisemitic as Czarist Russia. Stalin's campaign against the kulaks was basically a good old fashioned pogrom. Stalin liquidated his doctors because he suspected them of plotting against him. You'll never guess what their heritage was.

As for the six million killed figure, that is an estimate made by refugee relief agencies after the war. They compared census records and other official documents against the number of refugees they processed. Naturally, not all of the missing would have died in camps. Some may have successfully fled under assumed identities, others may have been killed by collapsing buildings and so forth. The overwhelming number, however, were murdered in cold blood. Entire villages were forced to dig their own mass grave and were shot on the spot. Others were less fortunate.

Germans were certainly not the only ones committing atrocities. In fact, it was the Ukranian and Croatian auxiliaries who were the most enthusiastic. The Croatian Ustashi were so brutal in their abuse of Jews, Serbs, Romany and, of course, Bosnians, that Himmler himself was appalled and ordered them to stop before they gave the whole enterprise a bad name. Seriously. Google "Ustashi."

What iv never understood is that, if the Rothschild's Banking family are or were Jewish, why we're they financing both sides of the war? Britain and Germany? Thats supporting the destruction of your own people. I'v never understood this.

Could some one help me understand this more? because i kind of think its a big conspiracy, the whole of WWII

I'll never understand this need to 'water down' the holocaust.
Are we saying that the concentration camps in Germany were run by Russia?
Are we denying the tales of survivors? Of witnesses? Of refugee organisations? Of liberating troops?
If you even halve the estimated deaths, it would still be a terrible thing.
Because the present is built upon the past and lessons need to be learnt we need to remember this terrible evil. The world is in a very fragile place as we go into 2012. Do you think it can't happen to you? Think again.

Originally posted by n00bUK
What iv never understood is that, if the Rothschild's Banking family are or were Jewish, why we're they financing both sides of the war? Britain and Germany? Thats supporting the destruction of your own people. I'v never understood this.

Could some one help me understand this more? because i kind of think its a big conspiracy, the whole of WWII

I've considered this for some time and concluded a possible reason for WW2 was not jews, or a holocaust, and that Rothschild did not fund Germany. Germany's economy crashed due to the Rothchilds, see Weimar Republic. Hitler came to power, abolished the central bankers from the country, and printed his own currency. Using this currency, he built up his war machine and went on a path to destroy international finance/usury/central banking, whatever you call it. It was a war against the bankers who collapsed Germany.

Obviously he lost, and the winners write history - so the whole of the story has been flipped and twisted, but if you dig deep enough you can find the truth.. just like the American Revolution - that, too, was about central bankers.

Of course, this is just a theory, but I think it may be close to the truth.

reply to post by againuntodust


that is an interesting theory, about central banking being the motivation behind wwII and revolutionary war. I can see where that makes sense. I will have to see if I can find some proof of my own.

And i think there are more than a few people alive today who would like to start another war against some central bankers...

Originally posted by Zona
reply to post by againuntodust

 

And i think there are more than a few people alive today who would like to start another war against some central bankers...

And if they did fight against the bankers, and lost, history would show them to just be freedom hating terrorists... these bankers plan for every outcome...

Germany did not go to war with bankers. Germany went to war with the people who bankrupted them: the Allied powers who imposed harsh reparations on them, worsening their economy during their post war reconstruction. In fact, they loved bankers, especially SWISS bankers.

And no, Germany did not get money from the Rothschilds. Hitler pumped fiat currency into infrastructure development and stopped paying the reparations. Because they manufactured chemicals and excellent high tech goods, other countries continued to trade with them and the trade balance reversed. Eventually, the Nazis simply stole gold from the lands they invaded. Not all of it has been returned.

Originally posted by n00bUK
What iv never understood is that, if the Rothschild's Banking family are or were Jewish, why we're they financing both sides of the war? Britain and Germany? Thats supporting the destruction of your own people. I'v never understood this.

Could some one help me understand this more? because i kind of think its a big conspiracy, the whole of WWII

The Roths and many Americans had stock in many German companies before, during, and after WW2.

The Roths also were bond holders of companies on both sides.

It's possible they bought government bonds too.

A short story may make it easier to understand.

Three women go to a party with many guests.

Sarah sees Mary and tells her she needs $100 to pay a bill.

Mary says OK but wants 5% interest.

Sarah says "I have some info you need to know", and I will tell you for $100.

Mary says OK, but only after you tell me.

Sarah tells Mary that Mary's husband is having an affair with Jane.

Mary says "thank you" and pays Sarah $100 as a fee.

Later, Sarah sees Jane and tells her she needs $100 to pay a bill.

Jane says OK but wants 5% interest.

Sarah says "I have some info you need to know", and I will tell you for $100.

Jane says OK, but only after you tell me.

Sarah tells Jane that Jane's husband is having an affair with Mary.

Jane says "thank you" and pays Sarah $100 as a fee.

[color=limegreen]Sarah now leaves the party and goes to the bank with $200.

Mary and Jane see each other and start a conversation.

The rest is history

Originally posted by DJW001
Germany did not go to war with bankers. Germany went to war with the people who bankrupted them: the Allied powers who imposed harsh reparations on them, worsening their economy during their post war reconstruction. In fact, they loved bankers, especially SWISS bankers.

And no, Germany did not get money from the Rothschilds. Hitler pumped fiat currency into infrastructure development and stopped paying the reparations. Because they manufactured chemicals and excellent high tech goods, other countries continued to trade with them and the trade balance reversed. Eventually, the Nazis simply stole gold from the lands they invaded. Not all of it has been returned.

You are correct, but they went to war with the bankers when they withdrew from the international finance scheme of central banking. They did still have a fiat currency, but it was not borrowed with interest from a banking entity, it was printed by government itself. That is what brought them from the poorest nation in Europe after WW1, within 5 years, to the richest nation. You can read about Hitler defying the international bankers here

The parallel I draw here to the American Revolution, can be summed up with this piece:

The inability of the colonists to get the power to issue their own money permanently out of the hands of George III and the international bankers was the PRIME reason for the Revolutionary War.
Ben Franklin answering a question about the booming economy of the young colonies: "That is simple. In the colonies we issue our own money. It is called Colonial Scrip. We issue it in proper proportions to the demands of trade and industry."

The holocaust and all genocides are caused by militarism, which exists in all countries and most prominently in the united states which spends twice as much on militarism as the rest of the world combined. It's safe to say that libertarianism never caused a genocide in human history.

I do not know anything for a fact, but I am thinking that most of the concentration camps were in German controlled territory at the time the mass-killings took place. This seems like good criteria for determining if what you are asking is true. As is usual though, the truth is probably somewhere between the two extremes.