Nicotine Is Not Dangerous

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

I don't read those links cause I've read enough for a long time about the issue. Yes you can kill anything if you overdoze it with nicotine. You can kill a person if you overdoze them with water too. If it's poison do tell me then why aren't people dropping dead all over the place for eating tomatoes, potatoes etc.?

Just like a guillotine is not deadly. Hell, all it does is cut your neck a little. The problem is when you do too much of it and go all the way through.

Bullets are good for you. You need them. The only problem with bullets is when they are loaded into the machines they are made to be used in and then fired out of them.

Cyanide occurs naturally and there is a scale from none to some so obviously, nothing is dangerous anywhere. Moderation people.

Originally posted by anonentity
reply to post by Algernonsmouse

 

Firstly its the only thing that delays or stops Altthiemers.

That is not true even a little. There is nothing smoking does to help with any made up disease anywhere. That is part of the nature of made up diseases. If you mean Alzheimer's, then perhaps you need to go and find the people that gave you that info and ask them to prove it to you, then explain it to you.

You are suggesting smoking to help stop a disease that does not show until late middle to later age in life and cannot actually be diagnosed until after death. You have nothing.

Its an appetite suppresant..the rise in obesity with the fall in smoking is not a coincidence.

So is a concussion. Does that make concussions a good habit? There are other appetite suppressants. I am looking for what makes smoking good.

Its a great stress reliever.

For whom? For you? How about the non smoker you just sidled up to? Sex is a better stress reliever but it is interesting to see where people prioritize. Still not making your case.

Its a social interactive.

So is alcohol, church, demon worship, golf, etc. None of this says anything good about smoking.

Is was actually prescribed to stop an Asthma attack...[/quiote]
Oral doses of fecal matter are prescribed to treat things too. Want a big plate of crap so you can tell me how awesome a habit eating plates of crap is because it has been prescribed to treat things?

Its not the smoking its the additives in the tobacco thats the danger.

I never asked you about any danger.

moderate use is not the problem.The highest cause of death in non smokers is bowel cancer..smoking encourages peristalsis...another fact that lung cancer is higher in those that have never smoked.I could go on but like in hitlers germany, the BS. will die in time.Like do you want a long misserable life?

You could go on and on? When does it start?
I asked what about smoking is a good habit. You gave a list of flimsy things other things can and do do better without any kind of argument. You might as well have just said you think it makes you look cool. That would have been as valid. Cigarettes make you lose your appetite. Reading BS about how good smoking is for you makes me lose mine.

That means that if you and I wanted to suppress our appetites, you would pay 10 bucks to inhale chemicals where I would just let you talk for 4 minutes for free.

See how you did not convinve me it is a good habit?
Yes I am a smoker.

Originally posted by Awoken4Ever
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

Huh?? This isn't true at all. If it wasn't the nicotine that was addictive, then why is that the gums, patches, inhalers, etc...which only have nicotine in them, reduce the cravings? Why do they give a smoker stuck in a hospital that is a nightmare to deal with because he can't go out and smoke a patch to get through it? The ingredients on the patch is "nicotine" not "nicotine + all the carcinogens."

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If what any of these people were pushing were the least bit true, it would surely have come up in my last hospital stay of a few weeks. I was ok with the patch. I do not recall tearing it off and screaming that I needed a cigarette or a patch with more additives in it.

I actually make my OWN tobacco as in
i buy bars of raw/fermented tobaccobars.

Put some bioflavours in (flavours that are drinkable)
Let it soke for a day or two, then cut it and then dry
it for an hr or so...

No additional pollutants like benzen and stuff..

And the price is like 3-4 times lower than what
you pay for packs in store...

reply to post by Algernonsmouse

That is not true even a little. There is nothing smoking does to help with any made up disease anywhere.

In the first place, Alzheimers is not a 'made-up' disease. It is a massively debilitating mental deterioration that I see as a long slow agonizing death of the soul.

In the second place...

Researchers have long been aware that fewer smokers get Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases than non-smokers. Up to April l992, of the 17 studies on Alzheimer's and smoking which had been published in peer-reviewed journals, 13 reported a reduced risk for smokers and only four found no difference between smokers and non-smokers. Similar findings have been published on the effect of smoking and Parkinson's disease.

In an article in The Times of London (9/7/93), Dr. James Le Fanu provided an examination of the research on smoking and its apparent protective effect for certain diseases. Dr. Le Fanu stated unequivocally: "Smokers have a 50 per cent reduced risk of developing Alzheimer's--and the more smoked the greater the protection." He also noted that emerging research points to a similar effect of smoking on Parkinson's disease.

Source: www.forces.org...

ScienceDaily (Oct. 13, 2010) — A team of neuroscientists has discovered important new information in the search for an effective treatment for Alzheimer's disease, the debilitating neurological disorder that afflicts more than 5.3 million Americans and is the sixth-leading cause of death in the United States. Hey-Kyoung Lee, associate professor in the University of Maryland Department of Biology, and her research team have shown that they may be able to eliminate debilitating side effects caused by a promising Alzheimer's drug by stimulating the brain's nicotine receptors.

Source: www.sciencedaily.com...

In Alzheimer's, plaques made up of amyloid beta protein form in the brain.

Researchers from the Scripps Research Institute in California, US, looked at nornicotine, which is produced as nicotine is broken down by the body.

Smoking is certainly not a good way of trying to get this drug to a particular point in the body.
Deborah Arnott, ASH
They believed it may help protect brain cells.

Source: news.bbc.co.uk...

Here is a nice video on the research by HealthCentral.

It appears nicotine may have a positive role in dementia. According to the results of a new study, a nicotine byproduct called cotinine was shown to prevent memory loss in a mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease.
Cotinine protects neurons and enhances memory

Cotinine, which is an anagram of “nicotine,” is a chemical the body produces from its metabolism of nicotine. This major nicotine byproduct is nontoxic, lasts longer in the body than does nicotine, and has been shown in previous studies to be safe when used to help relieve symptoms of tobacco withdrawal.

Source: www.emaxhealth.com...

And if you really want to dig into the research, I highly suggest you read Brain Imaging of Nicotinic Receptors in Alzheimer's Disease, published open-source on the International Journal of Alzheimer's Disease website.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Algernonsmouse


I loved your reply. It just shows how brainwashed people can get...Like trying to talk to a closed mind. or someone brought up in a closed religious community. who's belief system is set in stone.Reasoning is a waste of time. But good luck all the same.

Must be the same people who just recently said that Water does not prevent dehydration:

Article.

Next, they will tell us that Oxygen is also bad for you.

I've already given some links, there is data that makes this entire thing controversial. I don't recommend addictions and limiting additives and especially radiation is only good, but the pure, organic forms of tobacco have some protective elements from radioactive isotopes. And when they demonize something, load it up with chemicals and radiate it you should start to research it.

I no longer think its more virtuous to not smoke, per sae. Just think we need to perserve and use organic heritage seeds for everything.

Being programmed is not a good thing. And alot of the responses here are programmed ones. Research, there is research done.

Whenever something prohibits their goals, ie. to mutate or kill large numbers of people, they demonize something.
Tobacco, which is kind of mixed, good and bad things to it, and then iodine. Their studies on both things tie into the real purpose behind their Mahatten Project studies, which was to find ways to kill us and isolate those things that prevented their goals.

Again not recommending people start smoking but its not cut and dried.

Oh I forgot to go take my 1500 mcg's + of trophic iodine drops.

If you can't quit, grow your own, cover it with plastic, haul out the soil, and get some non radioactive, perhaps use some harmonics on it too to neutralize. Try to keep rain off it.

reply to post by Azmodan85


Actually nicotine is a first -class insecticide and is also poisonous to humans. There have been metastudies performed on nicotine that so indicate it.

I have witnessed the toxicity in the lab.

[xpconnect wrapped nsIURI]

How about doing some desk research. All you need is internet access.

reply to post by Tiger5


In large doses yes it a toxin. So is just about anything. We require vit A, but just a bit more than is safe is also is a real toxin. I'm not saying nicotine is a vitamin, but its the radiation and chemicals that cause lung cancer in large amounts.

The smoke actually creates a mucous that blocks radioactive isotopes from penetrating cells.

But it also raises your blood pressure and causes heart disease.

So if anyone addicted who can't quit, should get in control of it, and go organic.

reply to post by Unity_99


Nicotine is a vitamin Its B3..They didnt like to call it nicotinimide because of the heathen tobacco conection.If you eat a reasonable amount of the onion family specificaly garlic it counteracts the effects of tobacco.High BP heart disease etc .
In fact living in a city gives the breathing non smoker the equivalent of 40 untipped ciggies a day in carcinogens, diesel is the main culprit.I dont see anyone trying to ban diesel engines.Funny that.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
In the first place, Alzheimers is not a 'made-up' disease. It is a massively debilitating mental deterioration that I see as a long slow agonizing death of the soul.

I know. My grandmother died from it. Apparently you could not be bothered to actually read my post before responding to it.

Shall I return that level of respect or just admit I stopped reading and leave it at that before, like you, I start off with something so obviously ignorant that it begs me to wonder why I should even think about responding to someone who is about to tear apart a post of mine they did not even read.


Wanna try this again on a civil and honest level or just feel good about yourself to yourself?

Let me know.

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
That is not true even a little. There is nothing smoking does to help with any made up disease anywhere. That is part of the nature of made up diseases. If you mean Alzheimer's, then perhaps you need to go and find the people that gave you that info and ask them to prove it to you, then explain it to you.

Yeah, I hid that all the way in the 4th sentence of the opening paragraph so you obviously did not read anything but the first 3 sentences before responding?
Tsk. Tsk.

reply to post by Algernonsmouse

Oh, come on... you knew as well as I did that the post you responded to was referring to Alzheimer's. And I'll be happy to continue to debate this topic with you if you wish. Just be aware that I do not acknowledge an inability to see through an obvious typo.

Now, if you wish to proceed, would you care to review the links I gave to specific evidence that nicotine has benefits for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's patients? Or are you going to find a typo and dismiss them on that basis alone?

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Algernonsmouse

Oh, come on... you knew as well as I did that the post you responded to was referring to Alzheimer's. And I'll be happy to continue to debate this topic with you if you wish. Just be aware that I do not acknowledge an inability to see through an obvious typo.

Darn. You are still not even trying. Obviously it was just an obvious typo. That is also something you will pick up when you finally actually read the post you seem to be so bent on arguing with.

Now, if you wish to proceed, would you care to review the links I gave to specific evidence that nicotine has benefits for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's patients? Or are you going to find a typo and dismiss them on that basis alone?

Send me a private message to let me know when you finally actually read my post and have a response to it that is relevant to what I wrote. You do not need me to post links to things you want to. I dismissed nothing, again something you will notice when you finally read my post.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I feel like I need to help you before you reply again and waste a lot of time writing things I will again dismiss as they do not resemble anything like a response to my post. This is the easy part.
The question was
What about smoking is a good habit.
Your response so far has been an indignant and rude
Because nicotine might be good for.......

Right.
I asked about smoking. Start there.
Then read my post. See what I actually wrote in response to nicotine and its wondrous benefits for mentally incapacitated septuagenarians.

I am really actually trying to have a conversation where as you seem more like you came in here with a pocket full of prepared arguments and saw me and just started slinging them. Really read what I wrote. I bet you are smart enough to actually respond to it.

Originally posted by TheRedneck

Bottom line: life isn't fair.

True but not to use as an excuse hide behind for delusion or support for one's argument.

We could debate the whole "my rights vs. your rights" all day long, and neither of us would give an inch.

Not true. I given in a mile if I could see how it benefits the community as a whole and not just the individual. We have to make sacrifices as an individual to benefit the group. If not, then we should just be able to do whatever we want, when we want. Why can't a child rapist do what he pleases then? Of course your argument would be, "now you are making me a child rapist?" Of course not. There is no difference in ideology though. It's just a matter of judgement, not a difference. We just have to make sacrifices at times for others. The problem really is that nobody wants to give up anything anymore because "it's all about me." That has never worked, it will never work, and it will continue to not work. We have 6 billion people on this planet now and only growing. Quarters are getting tight, and we are just going to have to learn to play nice at times....that includes sacrifices for one another. It's called living in a community. This isn't about you, it's about us.

You believe it is my duty to bend my lifestyle to suit your convenience, while I believe you have the right to go elsewhere if you do not like where you are.

Why don't we go back to "For Whites Only" No difference.

You do realize there is medical evidence that disproves any link between second-hand smoke and health risks, right? You do realize that it is easy for tests to be conducted in a biased manner so the desired outcome is certain?

Reference please. I don't need to research it, it's your argument. Besides, I would rather it be here open for debate then just tell someone "go research it." If you can't site your information when you used it as a counter, then don't tell people to "go research it" and leave the information void for someone else to read.

I guess that yellow paste on your walls, furniture, and inside your car is just natural. That's not getting in peoples lungs at all huh? Ever seen the walls of a airport smoke area? Where is all that stuff going if not in their lungs??

Does that make me a criminal in your mind?

Hate, greed, selfishness, and ignorance makes anyone a criminal in my mind. (you asked my mind)

Yeah, I deserve prison time over that poor performance.

Prison doesn't = criminal. All I said is that I wish they would make them illegal, I don't know how this turned into you being a criminal. It's not illegal, and you therefor are not a criminal. This isn't all about you.

Someone's resume tells me absolutely nothing at all about a person. Most of the biggest psychopaths, delusional, and monsters on this planet are extremely educated. Some of the most gentlest, kindest, loving people are not. I don't value anything on what one's resume looks like at all. Just actions. Actions doesn't = education. That's just pride talking IMO.

Not really. DUI convictions carry a stiff sentence, yes, but it is over within a couple years.

Absolutely not true. They carry with you for you life now. It isn't over within a couple of years in the slightest. Depending on your career path, they can always come back to haunt you. There is no longer statute of limitations on DUI's and how long they stay on your record. Smoking won't prevent you from getting a job, but a DUI can.

The treatment I get...

Is only because of trying to place your will on the will of others. Them not smoking has no impact on you what so ever outside of you being uncomfortable because you can't go long enough without fighting an addiction. That isn't "their" will, that is "your" will. You forcing someone to be around you and deal with your addiction and have it impede in on their life by having to breath it in, choke on it, and sit with something that smells disgusting to them, not to mention cause harmful health risks (until I see your proof) is something completely different.

You're an addict, and you're talking like an addict. It's also known as denial. You can find all the holes you want in it, but I know for certain you are talking like an addict, you just can't hear it.

Something tells me you really do know where I am coming from, but somehow have convinced yourself that your actions as a smoker are so heinous as to deserve to be despised.

Completely wrong here too. I do know "where you are coming from," but all I hear is "addict and denial" nothing more. I "understand" how you think, but I don't think like you at all anymore thankfully.

Continued...

Originally posted by TheRedneck

There's no reason to beat yourself up (and especially to beat others up) over something you obviously enjoy but won't admit to enjoying.

Wrong yet again. I don't enjoy it at all. In fact, I can't stand it. I can't stand what it has taken from my life. I can't stand that I can go more than 2 hours without going nuts mentally. I can't stand that I can't walk up a flight of stairs anymore without losing my breath. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE WORLD I LIKE ABOUT IT. Period.

After all, if there was no enjoyment in those cigarettes, addiction or no, you could find a way to quit.

LOL...spoken like a true addict. So the heroin junky on the corner that is homeless is still finding enjoyment in it huh? He can find a way to quit as soon as he isn't getting enjoyment out of it anymore huh? LMFAO! #2 addiction in the world = nicotine. There are plenty of folks like me that hate it, but can't quit. Don't kid yourself. Just because "you" enjoy it doesn't mean the rest of us prisoners do. There is nothing I enjoy out of it. I have a lot of experience with addiction...you won't win this (this specific paragraph not debate overall) "debate" with me. You are talking 100% like an addict, nothing more, nothing less. Any professional in addiction recovery would see right through your defense mechanisms, and hence why you won't "give an inch." It's called denial. That's all I hear 100%.

I simply admit to enjoying mine, as I believe I deserve a little happiness in my life.

Brother as far as I am concerned, you can smoke 24/7 till your lungs fall out. The only problem is, when your lungs start to fall out, you do it on your own, no hospital, no meds, nothing to relieve the pain. Can't have your cake and eat it too. You are absolutely right, you should have the right to do it as much as you want, but then you should lie in the bed you made because you weren't willing to sacrifice for the benefit of the community and stop passing along the health care costs to everyone else. Just because you have insurance, don't think for a second that covers the damage collectively it is doing to society. That's why I would be willing to sacrifice it being illegal all together, make it unavailable, and help rid this problem that everyone is paying for because of folks like me and you that can't quit.

I have never tried to quit;

That's exactly why you don't know how awful it is to be a non-smoker and be around a smoker. You really have no clue how disgusting it is to be around people that smell like us, and how awful it is to breath in that stuff through healthy lungs. I have quit for periods of time, and I know how absolutely gross it smells once I was away from them. You, just based off this statement, don't have a clue how awful it is at all. Just because you drive past homeless people on the corner and "see" them, doesn't mean you have a clue what it is like to be homeless. This one statement you just made is exactly why you are ignorant (it's not a bad word) to this fact.

And now I am going to step outside my home and have a smoke

Enjoy! I'm having one right now... in the comfort of my own home. And I don't feel guilty for it.

Neither should you.

You are very good at assuming what other people think a lot. I don't feel guilty for it at all. I live alone, no reason to. I go outside because I don't want my walls, furniture, clothes, and everything else in the house to look like and smell like what yours do. It's disgusting, and if you spent some time away from it long enough, you would understand. When you move a picture off the wall and that ring that is there that you are OK with, to me is absolutely disgusting. I go outside because I don't want to live in that filth. It's bad enough that is what I am doing to my insides, but I don't want to lay in it too. One would think that my thinking should be reversed on it from rather lay in it then put it in my body, but welcome to the world of a trapped addict. I just don't have the denial about it that you do

Good debate brother...if anything maybe we could persuade a few of the youth from picking "it" up by seeing our insanity

Happy New Years to you.

reply to post by Awoken4Ever

I given in a mile if I could see how it benefits the community as a whole and not just the individual. We have to make sacrifices as an individual to benefit the group.

That's a noble statement, but not one I see adhered to frequently. It is commonly used when one has societal support but is confronted by facts contradictory to that societal attitude. In the end, even societal attitudes are based on individual desires. Of course, yours could be the rare exception.

It's called living in a community.

I do live in a community. There are people here who take insulin for diabetes. That places an inconvenience on others because they have to stop what they are doing in order to inject themselves, and they have to be very careful about what and when they eat, another inconvenience to those around them. And of course there are the high costs of health care, which, according to the exact same argument pressed forward by the anti-smoking crowd, drive up costs for everyone.

I know people who are allergic to certain foods... nuts, cheese, etc... and this creates a lot of problems when there are community gatherings. Certain foods have to be avoided, such as pizza. From a 'community-first' perspective, is it fair to take into consideration the needs of a few at the loss of convenience to many?

If I were of the same mindset that the community matters more than the individual, I could logically see that such people should not even be allowed to exist in the community. I am not, of course, of such a mindset. I have no problem adjusting my lifestyle to fit the needs of individuals. I can give up cheese to make someone comfortable. I can wait while someone injects insulin. Those may be individual needs, but I have no problem allowing them, for without the individuals there is no community.

Why don't we go back to "For Whites Only" No difference.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "no difference"... there is a difference. Smoking is a choice, while skin color is not.

Oh, I'm sorry... you were trying to compare non-smokers to blacks during the civil rights movement. Sorry, I was thinking you were comparing smokers to blacks, since it is the smokers who are told to go elsewhere as blacks were. My mistake, sorry.

Actually, that was an illustration on my part. You really should take care to make sure your analogies are apt.

Reference please.

Multicenter Case-Control Study of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke and Lung Cancer in Europe (in pdf format)
And here is a nice synopsis of the statistical information presented.

I guess that yellow paste on your walls, furniture, and inside your car is just natural.

No, that's called 'tar' and it is an undesirable aspect of smoking. No argument about that. That's why they make cleaners (incidentally, it comes off quite easily).

Hate, greed, selfishness, and ignorance makes anyone a criminal in my mind.

• Hate? I know of no one I hate.
  
• Greed? How is enjoying a cigarette to calm one's nerves greedy? Maybe for the tobacco manufacturers this might apply, but I no longer patronize them.
  
• Selfishness? How is the sacrifice of social contact in return for a bit of freedom selfish?
  
• Ignorance? Please... I have read the studies. Have you? I understand the implications of the statistical results. Do you? I have studied the biochemical processes and results associated with nicotine use. Have you?
  
  Ignorance is hardly counteracted by listening to the Surgeon General.

Prison doesn't = criminal. All I said is that I wish they would make them illegal, I don't know how this turned into you being a criminal.

Pardon me, but prison does equal criminal. Criminals face prison time; prisons are built for criminals. And considering I have stated, multiple times, both on line and in real life, that I would not quit smoking, the result of making cigarettes illegal would be to make me and every other smoker who did not bow to societal tyranny a criminal.

I find it amazing that, on a site where people regularly complain about loss of liberty and freedom, often when it is not happening, people still want to control what others do by force of law.

Someone's resume tells me absolutely nothing at all about a person.

My response does tell you one thing: I raised two healthy, intelligent, successful children despite smoking around them. That's all I was saying, since you seemed to indicate that no smoker could possibly rear a child well.

Whoops, out of characters... continued.

reply to post by Awoken4Ever

continued from above...

Smoking won't prevent you from getting a job, but a DUI can.

So can smoking at many locations now, according to the New York Times

Is only because of trying to place your will on the will of others.

Wait... you do realize that a business owner who wishes his/her workplace to be smoking permitted is legally banned from doing so in many US cities and states, right? Who is imposing their will on who? I can handle a business owner stating they do not want smoking on their property; I can voice my displeasure by patronizing other businesses. But when the force of law is brought to bear in order to control my behavior, against the wishes of the owners of the property I am on, how can it be said I am trying to impose my will on others?

Let me guess... the Cherokees who died along the Trail of Tears were just inconsiderate toward the soldiers, right?

You're an addict, and you're talking like an addict.

I AM an addict! Gee, stop the presses! Congratulations; you figured out something I had known for over 30 years! You could have just asked and I would have freely admitted it.

I am addicted to nicotine.

Wow...

Wrong yet again. I don't enjoy it at all. In fact, I can't stand it. I can't stand what it has taken from my life. I can't stand that I can go more than 2 hours without going nuts mentally. I can't stand that I can't walk up a flight of stairs anymore without losing my breath. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE WORLD I LIKE ABOUT IT. Period.

Then I strongly suggest you find a way to quit. There are patches, filters, even some medications available (please do not use Chantix; it has caused far too many suicides and psychotic episodes), and even an e-cig might be better for you.

See, there's the rub. You want to quit, but you also want me to quit. I don't want to quit; you do. You can quit without me quitting.

Brother as far as I am concerned, you can smoke 24/7 till your lungs fall out. The only problem is, when your lungs start to fall out, you do it on your own, no hospital, no meds, nothing to relieve the pain. Can't have your cake and eat it too. You are absolutely right, you should have the right to do it as much as you want, but then you should lie in the bed you made because you weren't willing to sacrifice for the benefit of the community and stop passing along the health care costs to everyone else. Just because you have insurance, don't think for a second that covers the damage collectively it is doing to society. That's why I would be willing to sacrifice it being illegal all together, make it unavailable, and help rid this problem that everyone is paying for because of folks like me and you that can't quit.

Oh, yes, the old argument "just go die off by yourself". Ironically, I would prefer that. I despise hospitals and avoid them like the plague. And, since no hospitals will allow smoking anymore in any rooms, I guess I won't have to worry about going into one and burdening your health care system. Works for me; if I die tomorrow, I will be able to say I have lived a full life.

But there's a second blade on that sword: if I don't use your health care system, neither do I pay into it. You don't get to use my contribution to help with your costs either. You don't get your cake and eat it too.

Of course, this is a moot point, because soon everyone will be required by law to have health insurance. And if I pay into it, you better bet I will use it as much as I need. You can thank Barack Obama for that, along with a lot of people who also want to say what lifestyles are legal and illegal.

Control of others equates to others' control of yourself. Be careful what you ask for; you might just get it.

You really have no clue how disgusting it is to be around people that smell like us, and how awful it is to breath in that stuff through healthy lungs. I have quit for periods of time, and I know how absolutely gross it smells once I was away from them. You, just based off this statement, don't have a clue how awful it is at all.

There's that self-hatred surfacing again. You really should get over that. You are not as evil as you apparently think you are.

Out characters again?!?

reply to post by Awoken4Ever

continued from above...

But you are right that I do not know how it is to be a non-smoker. Along the same vein, those who have never smoked do not know what it is like to be a smoker and addicted to the nicotine. That's the problem I have. I don't have a problem with segregated smoking sections, even with higher insurance costs. I do have a problem when

• laws are passed that violate private property rights just to make smokers lives more isolated.
  
• Jobs are denied because of personal use of a legal substance.
  
• I cannot walk down the street without someone trying to 'save me' from the devil tobacco, (I swear, Jehovah's Witnesses could take harassment lessons from anti-smokers!)
  
• I am taxed at an absolutely insane rate, to the absolute delight of so many.
  
• My parenting skills are questioned, not based on any outcome or philosophy, but based on whether I smoke.
  
• Actual information and research on a natural chemical which may have uses in the treatment of some of the worst diseases known is ignored and downplayed because someone might light up a cigarette.

And then, the perhaps unkindest cut of them all: it still ain't enough!

Good debate brother...if anything maybe we could persuade a few of the youth from picking "it" up by seeing our insanity

Happy New Years to you.

Yes, it has been! And that, incidentally, is how I explained smoking to my kids: "I was stupid and got hooked. Now I am a social outcast for something that was acceptable at the time. You do not want that kind of trouble."

As I stated earlier, neither smoke. Both accept my smoking. I'm proud of those two.

May your tragedies in 2012 be minor, and your triumphs be legendary.

TheRedneck