Previously unpublished Groom Lake aviation fixes now public

I noticed flightaware.com can now decode some of the Janet flight routes. Here is a random route:
flightaware.com...
I suppose that link will eventually not work, so here is the data on the page:

KTNX EXITT JAYSN FIDOE KEPEC KEPEC2 KLAS
Name Type Latitude Longitude
KTNX Origin Airport 37.7946597 -116.7786747
EXITT MIL-REP-PT 36.9201639 -116.1426278
JAYSN Waypoint (RNAV) 36.5737444 -116.0407278
FIDOE Waypoint (RNAV) 36.2698444 -115.4991250
KEPEC Waypoint 36.0005556 -115.5622222
IPUMY Reporting Point 36.0310556 -115.3753333
NIPZO Waypoint 36.0185556 -115.2028333
SUNST Waypoint 36.0102778 -115.0808333
BLD VOR-TAC (NAVAID) 35.9957778 -114.8635833
KIMME Waypoint 35.9952778 -114.8305556
CHIPZ Waypoint 35.9805556 -114.6083333
POKRR Waypoint 36.0681667 -114.5996389
PRINO Reporting Point 36.0732222 -114.7274722
KLAS Destination Airport 36.0800556 -115.1522500

The columns probably don't line up, but you get the idea. Now many of these fixes can be found in aviation databases such as at airnav.com
www.airnav.com...

But FIDOE has been unpublished for years. You can find it mentioned on the old alt.conspiracy.area51 usenet. Somewhere around mid December 2011, these military reporting points (fixes) started to show up on the internet. I tracked down the file deep in the bowels of the FAA interwebs, and compiled a list of the fixes relevant to Groom Lake and the Tonopah Test Range. I expect the online databases will eventually catch up with the FAA data, so I will skip how to get the data.

I put the fixes in this PDF:
www.lazygranch.com...

If you go to airnav.com and then go to the TTR, you can find instrument routes and such, but the fixes in the routes were always unpublished. The list I created now has this previously unpublished fixes. Here is how to get to the Tonopah Test Range on airnav.com:
www.airnav.com...
Clicking on "ILS OR LOC/DME RWY 14" will pull up a pdf with the fixes JADPU, JEPAR, etc. These fixes can be found on my list.

There are plenty of fixes that you can hear over the scanner that are not listed yet. SHOWW is one that shows up on internet tracking, but is not released yet. Over the scanner, you can hear ABBIE (abby), SMOKY (smokey), etc.

My suspicion behind all this is since the TTR procedures went on line, they had to eventually release the unpublished fixes. Since routing to the Groom Lake is not published over the internet, they probably won't release the those fixes.

For a quick review, routes related to Groom Lake are at altitudes of 14k or 15k. Routes to the TTR are higher. The Tonopah Test Range (TNX) is nearly always listed as the airport, even if they go to Groom Lake. Every once in a while they will list Groom Lake as TKM.

I'm using fix and reporting point interchangeably, even though they are a bit different.

reply to post by gariac


As I reported in another post, based on scanner audio, Nellis used code words for published fixes. I reported that SHOWW, listed in the post above as unknown,, is actually a code word for JAYSN. I'm just putting the information here for completeness.

If you go to flightaware.com and look at the Janet tracking, all the fixes or reporting points are now documented. For example, WWW482, which by the way made flights on both Saturday and Sunday, flew to Groom Lake via
MCCRN3 LAS FIDOE JAYSN EXITT

KLAS Origin Airport 36.0800556 -115.1522500
MCCRN3 LAS Airport (NAVAID) 36.0800556 -115.1522500
FIDOE Waypoint (RNAV) 36.2698444 -115.4991250
JAYSN Waypoint (RNAV) 36.5737444 -116.0407278
EXITT MIL-REP-PT 36.9201639 -116.1426278
KTNX Destination Airport 37.7946597 -116.7786747

The only lie in the routing is claiming the plane went to TNX (Tonopah Test Range) rather than Groom Lake.

Originally posted by gariac
There are plenty of fixes that you can hear over the scanner that are not listed yet. SHOWW is one that shows up on internet tracking, but is not released yet. Over the scanner, you can hear ABBIE (abby), SMOKY (smokey), etc.

I am a little unclear about what I would hear over the scanner.
Just something that triggers the squelch at the fix frequency, or what can I expect to hear?

A fix or reporting point is a GPS waypoint. You hear them said over the scanner. Rather than give out lat lon, they have a five letter name for the fix.

A fix is located at an intersection of two routes. I believe a reporting point can be anywhere.

Originally posted by gariac
A fix or reporting point is a GPS waypoint. You hear them said over the scanner. Rather than give out lat lon, they have a five letter name for the fix. A fix is located at an intersection of two routes. I believe a reporting point can be anywhere.

Doh.... I missed that completely.
They (air-ground, ground-air, etc) reference the waypoints in the voice chatter on the scanner.

EDITED TO ADD:
Here is a KMZ file for Google Earth of these "fixes", if anyone wants to check it out:
www.topsecretbases.com...

Anything that uses an ADS-B transponder shows up on FlightAware and other websites. There have been several interesting flights pop up since they've started using the new transponders.

reply to post by Zaphod58


If you file IFR, then you show up on flightaware.com. It has nothing to do with mode-s or ADSB, though I would imagine most planes capable of instrument navigation at least have mode-s. Many planes with mode-s and or ADSB fly VFR, or the file IFR and transition to VFR to fall off of flightware.com tracking. You can also file IFR, then leave VFR. The flight shows up as cancelled, but that is only the IFR that is cancelled.

The Janets only use mode-s, not ADSB.

reply to post by FosterVS


At KLAS, you will hear the routing go out over the clearance/delivery channel. At Groom, the routing just goes over the tower. Groom isn't all that busy that they need to tie up a frequency for clearance/delivery.

The flightaware.com tracking will take a perceptible bend, i.e. deviate from the dashed blue line that is supposed to represent the route, as it heads towards Groom Lake.

I think flightaware gets it's tracking from the FAA and not ADSB. In the US, ADSB isn[t as common as in the EU where it is mandated. Passur uses detection hardware to track the aircraft, which is probably why it was removed from KLAS.

You can listen to Vegas ATC at:
live atc

reply to post by gariac


It also has to do with ADS-B, because a number of military flights, which don't show up on Flightaware regardless of their flight plan, have shown up on Flightaware recently. And they are aircraft that have begun using ADS-B.

reply to post by Zaphod58


It would help to be specific and provide a link to a flight you suspect is being aided by ADSB on flightaware.

I can tell you that the C-37 with ADSB do NOT show up on flightaware. Same goes for the E-6. On the other hand, some flight without ADSB show up on flightaware due to a bug in the filter. Voodoo1 flight ID for example.

reply to post by gariac


There were several flights during the Libya campaign, one an E-3, I forget what they others were, that were tracked using an ADS-B transponder, and an RC-135 that was tracked the same way recently. I don't have the flight specifics handy at the moment, but if I have time I'll try to find them.

You can download the whole entire TNX Airport PDF in whole from flightaware also when you click on the IFR Plates tab above.
flightaware.com...

reply to post by Zaphod58


Generally the "heavies" have mode-s and if they are used overseas, then ADSB. But that doesn't mean they show up on flightaware. If you go to my website, check out the noise trackers. If the plane has mode-s, you can get the often get the squawk code without having to listen to ATC. The time and the code tells you when to look at the noise tracker to find the plane. Some of the trackers even include the callsign of the plane. This all presumes you have a mode-s receiver or managed to get the mode-s code from planefinder.net. [Planefinder.net uses data from mode-s receivers. In some cases, they have bought the receiver and gave it to someone who was willing to "sponsor" it.] But all this is irrelevant to flgihtaware. Flightaware is just a feed from the FAA as far as I can tell.

Noise trackers here:
noise tracker

The SFO noise tracker is the most powerful of all. It will show you mode-s and squawk. Occasionally the squawk doesn't show up on your receiver. If you have a receiver and feed the network, you can see the data from other boxes. That was what I did during the Libya support mission.

www.live-mode-s.info...

Nellis knows I have this gear since they sent the hot blonde on a bicycle to talk me up when I was parked by the LV Speedway.

reply to post by darpa999


Also airnav.com
www.abovetopsecret.com...

In 2010, the TTR loosened up a bit on what it would show to the public. They allowed the FAA to release the official airport routing documents and created their own website.

That said, I'm not holding my breathe waiting for a media pass to the TTR. They have done "family" day twice, based on documents I could find online. I presume all the secret stuff is hidden on family day. If there was a way to get advance knowledge when "family day" was being held, possibly one could get on base. Tom Mahood managed to do that for the Helendale RCS facility.

www.lazygranch.com/ttr.htm#family_day