Question for the atheists?

Originally posted by fatpastyhead
Absolutely great, thanks. I hope yours are to.

as fot the beers, I hope you are buying

My family is doing wonderful.

Of course I am buying. It is my party afterall.



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint

Darwinism and ruthless pragmatism can lead to immoral behaviors.

religion and ruthless pragmatism can lead to immoral behavior

ruthless pragmatism is some scary - well, you know what

people suck sometimes - no matter what flavor you pick

but most of the time (she said - on one of her more optimistic days) you'll find that people are pretty OK

all people

:-)

Originally posted by IAMIAM.
You say they are traveling alone to figure things out for themselves.

I didn't say that at all?

Just because human beings don't get their morals from God, doesn't mean they are alone.
Humans have each other and the wonder and mysteries of the the world to keep us occupied, we don't need fairy stories and imaginary beings to make us feel loved, to behave or to feel at peace with the world.

YOU may do.... many do not.

I say they are intimately connected to all that they sense,

I totally agree.... but why spoil it with the following load of bollocks?

the divine wholeness of the universe, and being taught carefully through those senses that everything is in a divine order.

Really?

I mean really....?



Dude, I'm done.

I can't remember the amount of debates about religion I've had on here and I swore to myself I would not get drawn into the world of the religious zombies..... I cannot be bothered any more.

You have a good time mate

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
I am interested in how an atheist would answer this question. When I refer to atheists, I am talking about people that believe there is no higher power or moral force that governs the universe. If you believe in some sort of higher power, but have some major disagreements with the organized religions of the world (i) join the huge club and (ii) I would not consider you an atheist.

Imagine you meet a person in the wilderness. The person has a valuable jewel in his body. You are not financially stable, in fact, you are in dire financial straits. If you got the jewel, your financial worries would be over and you and your family would be financially secure for generations to come.

The only way to get the jewel is to kill the person slowly and painfully and rip the jewel from his innards. This person has no friends, no family, and will not be able to do anything for you socially or financially. The person is not an evil person, but he is not particularly likeable either. In fact, he is a bit annoying. If you do kill the person and take the jewel, you will also be able to get away with it without anybody knowing about it and without any worries of any legal liabilities, social stigmas, etc. You will also be able to get therapy that will deal with any trauma or psychological harm you suffer and the therapy will be 100% effective.

My question to you is- do you kill the man and take the jewel?

I don't believe in any moral higher power or any diety and I would not kill the guy for his jewel. I find the question more about being a psycopath than being religious. To me religion is nothing more than a failure to understand. I have witnessed mysterious events which could be considered a miracle. I find it amazing when looking at the historical perspective of what religion has said versus the reality according to science and I just can't take religion seriously. In fact I would only have to look far to discover that what the church once said was fact is in fact NOT true.

keep an open mind and treat others as you wish to be treated!

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by IAMIAM.
You say they are traveling alone to figure things out for themselves.

I didn't say that at all?


Humans have each other and the wonder and mysteries of the the universe to keep us occupied, we don't need fairy stories and imaginary beings to make us feel loved, to behave or to feel at peace with the world.

YOU may do.... many do not.

There, now we are in agreement.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by IAMIAM.
You say they are traveling alone to figure things out for themselves.

I didn't say that at all?


Humans have each other and the wonder and mysteries of the the universe to keep us occupied, we don't need fairy stories and imaginary beings to make us feel loved, to behave or to feel at peace with the world.

YOU may do.... many do not.

There, now we are in agreement.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
I am a secular humanist. Murder of a fellow human being is wrong, regardless of some perceived profit.

This whole thought experiment is absurd. The postulated question acts as though atheists are somehow less than human, or have no regard for human life. You do not need to believe in gods to believe in morals.

I think the OP has a right to condition his question. Because he asks the question does not make it absurd. It is his question.

Originally posted by phantomjack

Originally posted by NuminousCosmos
I am a secular humanist. Murder of a fellow human being is wrong, regardless of some perceived profit.

This whole thought experiment is absurd. The postulated question acts as though atheists are somehow less than human, or have no regard for human life. You do not need to believe in gods to believe in morals.

I think the OP has a right to condition his question. Because he asks the question does not make it absurd. It is his question.

No - it is absurd.

How many threads are there on ATS about Atheists not having morals because of lack of belief in a god?

Now there is one more - - same thing - - different wrapper,

no, i don't need a supreme deity threatening me with hell to be a humane person. In fact if you're doing good just to please a higher being then everything you do is one big sin.

Christmas eve while wrapping presents my agnostic husband mumbled in a still small voice, there is no such thing as an atheist, now I have heard others say this, but coming from the great redneck Buddha caught me by surprise,

I kept quiet and basked in the moment,

weird,

I've always admired the supernatural degree of faith that is required for an intelligent, skilled observer to avow to be a true athesist.

Originally posted by tkwasny
I've always admired the supernatural degree of faith that is required for an intelligent, skilled observer to avow to be a true athesist.

Nice double talk.

It is my 50 year search to find truth that resulted in Atheist.

I am always surprised about the lack of insight into atheists. I consider myself an atheist. As a child and a teenager, I went to church regularly as I was expected to do in my community. I began to take notice that churches were used by people in my community to form a bond with others but I also noticed that churchmembers tended to form an almost gang-like and persecutory attitude to those that did not believe as they did. I have an extremely ingrained sense of right or wrong and I could never condone harming or persecuting of someone else because of their beliefs. Although I tried, I could never force myself to believe the stories of the bible which always seemed interesting but more like moral lessons rather than facts. In answer to your question, I could never harm someone else unless it was for protection of my family. I would like to counter your suggestion that atheists lack morals. In my experience, many atheists have an exaggerated sense of morality and even an exaggerated sense of spritual connection with their community. Just because someone is an atheist does not make them non-spiritual or immoral.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


That's pretty godlike of you, knowing who is useful and who is not.

Sorry I don't buy that line of reasoning at all, it seems very immoral to me. What you are saying is that those people aren't useful to you. That isn't the same as not being useful.

Animals don't throw out their wounded or sick very often, but rather nurse them as best they can. Why? Maybe because they know love for each other.

Pragmatism and ruthlessness aren't synonymous Pragmatism means being practical, ruthlessness means being selfish and uncaring.

pragmatic-dealing or concerned with facts or actual occurrences; practical.

ruthless-having no compassion or pity; merciless: ruthless cruelty; ruthless opportunism

Using the two terms together is misleading; I believe they are mutually exclusive. Having no mercy, compassion, or pity isn't pragmatic, it is evil, a hole in the spirit.

Normal humans know this in their bones, it is the sociopath who fails to comprehend; just as the blind from birth cannot appreciate the visual world, the sociopath cannot understand or appreciate the emotional one, the one where empathy dictates morality.

I think we are moral because we can feel each other's pain, it as simple as that. It is those who lack the ability to feel empathy who are immoral, because the pain of others is merely amusement for them, a break from the sterile monotony of the harsh desert that passes for their emotional life.

Gut him like a fish and spend,spend, spend, if he's a priest, rabbi, or Mulla. If he's a fellow atheist, let him be.


Get real man!!!! Your post is deluted and misconstrued. We don't kill folks because we can. (we arent the Government).. Moral or not give us atheist's a fair chancem it's just wrong to kill period.

In asking your question you should include all not just us atheist's. We atheist's could start right this minute killing folks and we will never ever get to the numbers that religion has in killing innocent people.

Go to the Freedom from Religion Foundation site and read the " white collar crime blotter" all those are "belevier's) some of the nastiest bastards on the planet.

iʻll tell you what, iʻve seen it more than a hand full of times. Given the right opportunity under the right circumstance, humans (you and i) are capable of anything.

"ohhhh i never ever in my life do that!!!" ......yah, uh huh. Like I said, seen it before. You donʻt know what your capable of doing

Peace

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
I am interested in how an atheist would answer this question. When I refer to atheists, I am talking about people that believe there is no higher power or moral force that governs the universe. If you believe in some sort of higher power, but have some major disagreements with the organized religions of the world (i) join the huge club and (ii) I would not consider you an atheist.

Imagine you meet a person in the wilderness. The person has a valuable jewel in his body. You are not financially stable, in fact, you are in dire financial straits. If you got the jewel, your financial worries would be over and you and your family would be financially secure for generations to come.

The only way to get the jewel is to kill the person slowly and painfully and rip the jewel from his innards. This person has no friends, no family, and will not be able to do anything for you socially or financially. The person is not an evil person, but he is not particularly likeable either. In fact, he is a bit annoying. If you do kill the person and take the jewel, you will also be able to get away with it without anybody knowing about it and without any worries of any legal liabilities, social stigmas, etc. You will also be able to get therapy that will deal with any trauma or psychological harm you suffer and the therapy will be 100% effective.

My question to you is- do you kill the man and take the jewel?

This is a question on Morals not religion as we all know religion has no morals in reality.

My answer is YES without a doubt. Then again I don't care about my fellow man anymore as we have seen by the people who have financial security that they always trod on someone else to get it.

Its the poor and jobless who would say NO as they have already resigned themselves to a life of crapness based on their unwillingness to go the extra step. Pathetic really!!

that was just fyi



and yah the thread was a FAIL....

It is amazing that religion teaches people that just because we do not believe in your god we are literally different from you. I know very few people that would kill a man for money, granted there are some sociopaths out there that I know about, but that is the last thing these people think about is their spiritual beliefs.

To think that an atheist has less moral beliefs or values because they do not believe a man is watching them from the sky is absurd.

In fact this thread has only gone against religion, because my fellow atheists and I do not need to believe that we have to be good because a man is watching us or because we have the possibility of going to hell, we choose to be good. We do not think there is any benefit to ourselves, only a benefit to mankind.

To me this is summation of what people think atheists believe and shows the true ignorance that runs through religious peoples brains. We want people to be good to one another, not for a personal benefit, and all religious people do is think we immoral and were going to hell...

Kind of funny when you think about it.

Pred...

Only if it was a matter of life and death on the jewel part as for any other reason it is still un-necessary,for the record i am an athiest but this has nothing to do what so ever with religion,this is obviously aimed at athiests because perhaps you have a stereotypical view of an athiest as a cynical type out for their own good....but let me ask you a question putting religion to one side for a moment,if it was a matter of life and death and not just for the want of the jewel,would you do it...if your family's lives depended on it??