Bush's Guard memo's are fake?

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

OPR's and EPR's are kept in the member�s official records,
*SNIP*
[edit on 9-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Were you in charge of airmen, and if so, do you keep the records, that you, as a supervisor, wrote in regard to them? If you do not keep the records, that you wrote on the individuals in your charge, why not? Just curious, because you say that Commanders don't normally have these records. When I wrote a disciplinary action for a solldier for writing bad checks at Wal Mart, or beating thier spouse, he/she signed two copies. One for me, one for them. I still have those records, I'm I being anal? Or am I covering my anus?

I think the typewriter museum guy is wrong... because I do remember that there were more than just two types of font balls for the Selectric. Our department had several. There was Courier and Artisan and Script and a few more.

I typed scientific documents, and I'm sure we had the superscripts. Some of the details of the papers look right to me (misalignment of some of the sentences, as though the document was taken out and then reinserted. You'd have the devil of a time mocking that up on a computer, and most people wouldn't think to try.



[edit on 10-9-2004 by Byrd]

I can tell you that when you leave a unit, all pif files are destroyed, all letters of counselling are given to you, and the only thing kept are those found in your personal records. If a commander kept every scrap of paper over a 20 year period, he would have to have a large storage area. I mean hugh, like the National Archives. There is a reason why your files are transfered to microfiche in Saint Louis when you get out.

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

OPR's and EPR's are kept in the member�s official records,
*SNIP*


Were you in charge of airmen, and if so, do you keep the records, that you, as a supervisor, wrote in regard to them? If you do not keep the records, that you wrote on the individuals in your charge, why not? Just curious, because you say that Commanders don't normally have these records. When I wrote a disciplinary action for a solldier for writing bad checks at Wal Mart, or beating thier spouse, he/she signed two copies. One for me, one for them. I still have those records, I'm I being anal? Or am I covering my anus?

I'll say nothing about your posterior, I'll leave that up to you. Yes, I supervise many, and have for years. I thought I was clear, but I see I have to simplify it for you a bit. As I said, the member is entitled to a copy if he chooses. The other copies go into the appropriate file in the orderly room or personnel office. The supervisor is not required to keep any copies of disciplinary actions taken against troops. That is what the file system is for. In fact, in some cases, the supervisor is not permitted to keep any copies for privacy act reasons.

This is all quite moot, as it seems that the documents CBS brought forth on President Bush are forgeries. I guess the DNC should have thought to use a 1960's typewriter to make them up instead of Microsoft Word, eh?

Can you say, "Implosion"?


[edit on 10-9-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Originally posted by jrsdls
I can tell you that when you leave a unit, all pif files are destroyed, all letters of counselling are given to you, and the only thing kept are those found in your personal records. If a commander kept every scrap of paper over a 20 year period, he would have to have a large storage area. I mean hugh, like the National Archives. There is a reason why your files are transfered to microfiche in Saint Louis when you get out.

You are correct sir, and that is one of the reasons supervisors are not entitled to disciplinary paperwork other than LOC's (Letter of Counseling) that are NOT placed in a member's PIF. Anything in the PIF is off limits, and may only be reviewed by the supervisor, not copied or retained.

curme, you may want to purge your documents. You could be setting yourself up for "litigation" for having unauthorized documents! What was your address??? I need to give the OSI a call...

Originally posted by unknown_artist
I have a feeling Bush is now wishing Swiftboat Veterans against Kerry and everyone would have left Kerry'ss past lay. Now with those comments Demo. are retaliating and finding things Bush wished would never be brought to light.

Bush doesn't care because he did nothing wrong. Kerry keeps bringing up the past and that is why he will NOT win the election. Bush never brought up anything about Kerry's war record UNTIL Kerry brought it up to jump start his campaign.

Has anyone seen Kerry's last few speeches? He looks like he hasn't slept in days. IF he can't handle the campaign trail, how is he going to lead a country for four years?

Originally posted by Byrd
You'd have the devil of a time mocking that up on a computer, and most people wouldn't think to try.

You can make anything with computers, if we can make counterfeit money, then why could we not forge a document?

I hope our country can make it with our debates going on and Kerry moaning and Bitching like a little kid.

CBS/60 minutes is screwed.
They claim they had this stuff authenticated.
Yeah, right. By who? Terry Kerry?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
CBS/60 minutes is screwed.
They claim they had this stuff authenticated.
Yeah, right. By who? Terry Kerry?

Here's what I am incredulous about...CBS is standing by their story!!! Dan Rather, the DNC poster child for the liberally biased media, who gives speeches for the DNC, is actually standing by this obvious forgery!!! I think it's time for Dan to either retire or be canned.....

Who would people trust to authenticate the documents? Drudge? Fox? News Max? If the World Net Daily says they are fake, and the International Herald Tribune, or the BBC say they are real, who are you going to believe? It doesn't matter if these are fake or not. The seeds have been planted, some people have already made up thier minds, and won't change them, regardless of the facts.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Selectric typewriter was first released in 1961 and is generally considered to be a design classic. After the Selectric II was introduced a few years later, the original design was designated the Selectric I. The Correcting Selectric II differed from the Selectric I in many respects:

The Selectric II had a Dual Pitch option to allow it to be switched (with a lever at the top left of the "carriage") between 10 and 12 characters per inch, whereas the Selectric I had one fixed "pitch".
The Selectric II had a lever (at the top left of the "carriage") that allowed characters to be shifted up to a half space to the left (for inserting a word one character longer or shorter in place of a deleted mistake), whereas the Selectric I did not.

The Selectric II had a lever (above the right platen knob) that would allow the platen to be turned freely but return to the same vertical line whereas the Selectric I did not. This feature permitted the insertion of subscripts and superscripts.

both used the same typeballs, which were available in many fonts, including symbols for science and mathematics, OCR faces for scanning by computers, script, Old English, and more than a dozen ordinary alphabets.

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It seems to me that they could be authentic.

What I find funny is that the guy who supposedly wrote these has passed away years ago. His son claims that these are fake and not the work of his father. This is just another Democratic operation to take the focus off of Kerry and put it on Bush.

Originally posted by curme
Who would people trust to authenticate the documents? Drudge? Fox? News Max? If the World Net Daily says they are fake, and the International Herald Tribune, or the BBC say they are real, who are you going to believe? It doesn't matter if these are fake or not. The seeds have been planted, some people have already made up thier minds, and won't change them, regardless of the facts.

It matters greatly. It is an obvious attempt by Kerry supporters, or perhaps the Kerry camp itself, to attempt to discredit the Presidents record, only days after Kerry himself attacked Bush's military record. The obvious forgery, along with testimony about the man supposed to have written it from his own family, and the fact that a Commander would NOT ORDER a flyer to take his flight physical goes to the credibility of the party that wants to lead this country. It's backfired again, and the slide for the Kerry campaign continues......

I've been an Air Force flyer for over 20 years, I get a flight physical every year, and they are NEVER ordered by the CC. The scheduler informs the member when he is due and scheduled as per the A-Forms product that is updated weekly for all flyers.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

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It seems to me that they could be authentic.

One problem...the superscript is not the same font size as the rest of the text. MS Word does that, not a 60's era typewriter........

I agree, I spent 20 years in the Air Force and I have never had a commander tell me to go to an appointment. I have received letters from the orderly room telling me that I had a dental appointment, but never one from my commander. Where are the forms from the hospital for the Presidents no-show. Seems to me that thier would be more than just these selected letters left.

Not only was the ability to create subscripts on a typewriter available at the time, but other documents released ealier by the white house ALSO included the same "th" subscript...

Friday afternoon, CBS News addressed one of the authenticity issues raised, whether typewriters in the 1960s had the "th" superscript key. "CBS News states with absolute certainty that the ability to produce the "th" superscript mentioned in reports about the documents did exist on typewriters as early as 1968, and in fact is in President Bush's official military records released by the White House, CBS said in a statement. The issue will be addressed in Friday's Evening News broadcast, 6:30 p.m. ET.


www.cbsnews.com...

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

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It seems to me that they could be authentic.

One problem...the superscript is not the same font size as the rest of the text. MS Word does that, not a 60's era typewriter........

Possibly. It is difficult though to tell whether the regular type was in 10 or 12 pitch, however, we already know the selectric had a lever that allowed a switch between the two, as well as a lever for superscript. The former could have been toggled from 12 to 10, the latter then toggled for superscript.

Originally posted by Byrd
I think the typewriter museum guy is wrong... because I do remember that there were more than just two types of font balls for the Selectric. Our department had several. There was Courier and Artisan and Script and a few more.

I typed scientific documents, and I'm sure we had the superscripts. Some of the details of the papers look right to me (misalignment of some of the sentences, as though the document was taken out and then reinserted. You'd have the devil of a time mocking that up on a computer, and most people wouldn't think to try.

Dude, not only is it easy to make an exact copy of the memos, it can be done with microsoft word with the default settings

See here: Linky

Originally posted by sensfan
���.Friday afternoon, CBS News addressed one of the authenticity issues raised, whether typewriters in the 1960s had the "th" superscript key. "CBS News states with absolute certainty that the ability to produce the "th" ����.

isn�t it CBS�s journalistic integrity that we are discussing now�that potentially would be like going to Jayson Blair and saying is that last article you wrote true?