One gets what one deserves

Good day.

Having enjoyed the thread on life being worthless (which has indirectly made me want to do more with my life, so thanks for that), I wanted to start my own new thread on merit.

I would like to highlight something first: I know we are born, we live, we die. Everything is worthless in the sense of material objects but hey, we need to enjoy our existance to some degree. If you don't want to, it might be worth your while removing yourself because you're clogging up our space! Thank you kindly.

The other day, I was walking out of a shop with a nice 42inch Plasma LG television. A very satisfying purchase. I didn't necessarily spend a long time saving for it (well, I didn't at all) but it was my first somewhat 'large' purchase apart from a vehicle, computer/laptop etc. At least it was the largest thing I have ever walked out of a shop with.

And then this happened...

I saw a homeless man. Whilst I was struggling to lift the 26KG box into my rear seating area, this homeless chap was politely asking a lady for some money. She shrugged him off, quite rudely I thought, and rather than walk on to the next person, he walked away with his head down, after glancing in my direction, then, without looking at me, opened his palms to the air as if to say "why do I bother?" to himself.

It hit me like a ton of bricks.

There was me with this huge TV and this man walking away, palms to the wind, this emptiness a representation of what he had in life. I finally managed to shove the TV onto the back seats and immediately felt around in my pockets; I only had my bank card (not credit card, I only buy what I can afford, as 'should' everyone). I went into the car and found the lose change between the seats; about (in various currencies for better understanding) £5/$7/6.5Euros. I went to the man and tapped his shoulder and gave him the money with the words "I'm sorry about the lady's attitude. Somebody cares about you". He tapped my shoulder and smiled and said "I can now have a christmas - thank you sir". The lady, parked 2 spaces away, caught my eye (clearly quite well-off considering vehicle) and I said to her, because she saw what I had done, "The richest people have the biggest heart. Merry christmas".

So I get into my car and off I go, hoping she got my sentence.

It then occured to me, and this is the purpose of my thread: Did I do the right thing? Should I have felt guilty? Was the lady correct to give nothing? It's her choice, in the end. People get what they deserve, right?

Please try to follow this train of thought:

Everyone is born with certain choices. Those choices are different for a lot of people but, in general, I feel, everyone has at least the same choices for their lives in terms of education and kindness.

They may be born into money, or with incredibly intelligent parents. They might have nothing and be born in the ghetto. Perhaps even into royalty (the unlucky kids - what a ghastly existence). So, some choices will be which perfect private school shall I go to? Which colour should I choose for the interior of my Bentley? Should I have a garage for 6 cars or only 4?

Others must choose 1 loaf of bread of 2 for the week. If they should work 18 hours a day or only 12 so they can spend at least a little time with their kids. Should they take the bus every other week or drive all the time? Which costs more, the bus ticket or petrol?

But, despite these situations, both have the 'choice' of personal change. Prince William from the UK has the choices of the first examples (garage, Bentley) but he must also choose in the same way as Mr Homeless in the car park. That is what brings humans together behind all the BS that is material wealth. A man falls over and yelps in pain. Do I, as the Prince, help this person or do I walk on? Or do I, as a homeless man, sit here and watch from my box or help?

There is a free library down the road. Do I ask my servent to bring me some books on such and such a topic to study, or do I choose to go to expensive lunches with friends and look at new cars? I'm homeless, do I choose to use the little money I have obtained from kind people, after purchasing some food, to go into the library and find an interesting subject? Or do I sit here and whither away under the weather?

We all have choices and I strongly feel (I see) that 'everyone', and I mean 'everyone', gets what they deserve. I don't expect you to say "But many people have what they do NOT deserve". Yes, that's right. I agree and I know. Those people born into money or, for example, that absolute sl** of a worthless c*w, Miss Ecclestone who explained, publicly to the paper, that her life was so difficult, that she had endless hours of which shoes to wear from her wardrobe of half a million pounds worth of designer shoes. She honestly said that. Please search Google for Bernie Ecclestone's daughter. An example of an utter nobody.

So, in conclusion, I think that I did the wrong thing. This man has 'chosen' to live like this. Perhaps he had a bad beginning, bad, hopeless parents (as is too often the case). Perhaps he was a troublemaker at school and was kicked out and his family disowned him. He has choices, opportunities and everything connected to those, waiting for him. They are begging for him to use his unknown talent of creating great melodies on the piano, of drawing interesting paintings with a new style of mixing water colours with pastel (for example). Some people are dying in hospital because this man has not realised his potential of being a great medical professional.

He has the chance. He chooses to stand outside the shop and beg. He chooses to close his mind and not try. Everybody can try, no matter their background.

Without revealing my identity, my family is not super rich. They're doing ok but they couldn't just lend me even £5,000 without a big dent. But they get by well and are happy and live to their means. I had a normal schooling, I was an average student but I have got what I deserve: money, skills, talents in lots of differing areas. I'm relatively young (not quite yet 30) but I don't need to work a full-time job and can pretty much stay at home. My work is online or out and about (interpreting), I had a bout in aviation (pilot). How? Why?

Because I chose to not stand outside a shop and beg. I chose to study books, watch professionals and be inspired (as I am to this day), to listen to my elders who made mistakes so I don't make them myself, to try different things (through creating opportunities, meetings) and seeing what happens from them. For example, I spent 5 years in Paris. I wanted to perform a little card magic so I simply sent some emails to Parisian magicians and met a few in some cafés. This led to some nice little encounters, some new language experiences and some spin-off situations and contacts. Just because I sent an email to some magicians. I got what I deserved. If I didn't send the emails, I wouldn't be where I am now (to a certain extent). The same goes for my aviation connections and various other things in life.

You get what you deserve. The world deserves to be in the state it is in because not enough people fight for change. You get fed Lady Gaga, Rhianna and The Kardashians because you give them TV ratings.

To the homeless man: I want my fiver back. Go and do something with your life.

I think you are a bit too young to be so judgmental, revisit your post in 20 years and see if you have had a change of heart. You never know what put that man in his current situation so how do you know he "deserves" what he got? Perhaps someday you will be in his shoes and some young man will give you a handout then judge you and want it back.

But being Human is to want to help people worse off than us, that's what make's us so cool.
If we had the attitude of yourself imagine how much worse of we would be as a specie? Sorry fella but I don't like the "Iam all right Jack" attitude, people can fall on hard times and it can be difficult to get out of and sometimes we all need a helping hand from our fellow humans.
Where do we stop helping people eh? nah I will always help someone who has fallen.

I knew with all certainty that this would be the first response.

The thing is, I will do all in my power to make sure I am not in his situation. It has nothing to do with my age so please do not put me in that 'pile' of arrogant youngsters.

I've made efforts in my life and I have made opportunities happen. I feel that people who say "If you were in his shoes, ..." or similar sentences, are those who probably don't make opportunities themselves. Am I correct? Of course you'll say no.

I could have been homeless in the sense of, my family may not have wanted me at home when I was 18. I was nothing special in school so I did not go to university (through choice, I might add). But, no matter how close I came to just being a shop-filler (I did work in a café for a few months), I did everything I could to create opportunities to live a rewarding life. I am now enjoying those benefits.

I do not understand why anybody (homeless or not), should feel forced into a job or lifestyle they do not want and I simply do not accept the answer of 'they have no choice'. That is so incorrect that it makes my blood boil.

I suppose only people who are as determined as I am will understand where I'm coming from, and those who attack my words, are those who do not make opportunities and are happy to support the homeless by giving them money so they stay on the streets and do nothing with their lives.

This does not only apply to homeless people. That was what started my thinking. But it applies to the garbage we watch on TV (because we choose to), the nonsense in papers (because we buy them, if we choose to) and various other things in life.

I'm sorry it seems arrogant or confrontational, but it's most definately worthy of discussion. If anything, I'm a kind sole who wishes he could snap his fingers and better the world, but unfortunately it won't happen. Some people just don't 'deserve' things because they make no effort to reap a reward.

(And to add, I indeed do help those fallen, either with money, support, a room for the week, etc. I have a big heart. I'm talking about the bigger picture, not one friend in need).

reply to post by DB340


While I read and understood the theme of your thread please consider some examples and then explain them to me. If you can.

I saw a photograph of a young African boy who had ALL his fingers chopped off - why? Because he refused to mine for diamonds. Did he deserve this? Please research the conditions that both adults and Children work under for the mining companies before you answer.

Remember the tiny little girl who was on the ground curled up and close to death - with the vulture in the background? What did that little girl do to deserve to die like that? By the way the photographer won a prestigious award and later on succumbed to an illness after having a horrible life. The photographer had left her there to die.

Recall the young man who bravely stood before the army tanks in Tienamen Square? He was imprisoned and later killed. What did he do to deserve that?

Consider that it is not about the choices we make for ourselves it is about the choices we make concerning others. I too chose to study and try and make a decent life for myself - through many many obstacles. That does not mean I am better or worse than anyone else - I believe it means I can utilise my life and do whatever I can or I can use my life and waste it by virtue of the things I do not do.

I lived in a major Australian city for many years and in a particular an inner city suburb there was a homeless man named Champagne Charlie. He always had his alcohol in a brown paper bag and he NEVER begged, every now and then he would get some help and be bathed and look like the Outreach people had cared for him.

One day I realised I had not seen him for some time. He had been callously bashed to death by a gang of thugs. Charlie had come to Australia as a refugee - his entire family had been killed in the Vietnam war. He married and established a restaurant and started a family. The restaurant burnt to the ground and that is when his world fell apart and he was bankrupted and his wife left. What on Earth did he do to deserve all that heartache and in particular such a senseless murder? I feel honoured to tell his story so that someone remembers him as a peaceful man - who it seems fell and could not get back up.

I have many such stories - all true - unfortunately. Just remember kindness does not need to be questioned - it is the other stuff that needs to be questioned - understood and healed.

Much Peace...

I won't judge you either because I don't know your situation. But from your OP I assume you are single and still live with your parents? If so, you are responsible for your life only. You said you are very determined and that is a great quality, but believe me things change as one gets older and takes on the responsibilities of a family. I can almost bet your outlook will change when you are 45 with a wife and kids. Imagine being homeless then...

And no, I'm not one who feels sorry for the homeless and wants to give them money so they don't have to work. I just know how the economy is in these turbulent times and believe me there are many who are homeless who were hard workers and determined just like you.

reply to post by DB340


Thing is you assume the homeless man has a choice, maybe he didn't maybe he has mental health problems which causes him to be homeless.
I know many people who have mental health problems and some of them have lived on the streets, and they got off the streets by accepting help of people.
You say that you will help anyone in your last post but in your OP you say we shouldnt because they "deserve" what they get?
Lets put some different shoes on you, say of a guy who hears voices in his head which he thinks are demons. then say you have the same choice's as everyone else.
Your painting the world in a black and white way, it isn't like that.
Good for you your life turned out well but to say people "deserve" what they get is just wrong.
You may get mentally unwell tmr and I hope people around you don't have the same attitude as yourself because you will get no help.
It isnt hard to help someone, I find it easyer to help than not to.

Also you say it's worthy of discussion? what to discuss if we should be mean, selfish and a bit of a rotter? nah it isnt. It's only worthy of discussion to read your OP and not do what you have done.

You certainly do,

And in one of the most famous Near Death Experiences ever recorded that man may have made some very important choices before he came to earth, and certainly not about 5 quid lol

Her book, Embraced by the Light, became a New York Times bestseller. Her NDE is considered to be one of the most detailed and most profound NDEs ever documented. The argument can be made that her NDE and book was responsible for causing other experiencers to come forward with their own NDEs, thereby proliferating the knowledge of the NDE to millions of readers.

Wanting to explore the universe, she is escorted by two light beings into the vastness of space. She travels to other worlds similar to earth having intelligent beings on them. She returns to the garden and is taken to a place where many spirits are preparing for life on Earth.

Her guides show her a drunken man lying on the sidewalk. They ask her what she sees. She sees only a drunk wallowing in his own filth. Her guides show her who the man really is. They reveal to her the man is filled with light and love and who is greatly admired in the spirit world for being a reminder to people of the need to help others.

Near Death Experiences The Famous and Documented 3.5meg PDF

I cant find the link now, another man who had this similar experience, an business man who had sometimes given and "drunk" or "tramp" who was outside often the place he worked, and sometimes thought of him, and gave thanks for his health, home and family children etc, showed more love and appreciation when he got to his family at night....

He was shown this "drunk" again was an Master in disguise, and had made an commitment on an soul level to help this man, so had chosen this entire life of drunk and homeless bum so more love could shine in this mans life, and he progress.

That in fact of all the people in this business mans life this "drunk" had been the most important in his spiritual and souls evolution.

One of my favorite old school as such songs seems fitting:



Love

Elf

The ice is now thinner than is safe to walk upon. I wish to tread incredibly carefully. Why is it so easy to be offended and offend?

Please not the way I pose my questions without going off the deep end. I don't want this to descend into nonsense and be deleted.

Would you not agree that, as I have seen in some signatures of members of this website, if your land is invaded, you fight back as best you can or you die? To surrender to any form of invasion is suicide. To die whilst defending in heroic, no? I might bring this alongside the mining industry. A tragic act, everybody would agree. I can't speak individually for this innocent young boy but surely I can speak for the 'area' as a whole? The workers, whilst not wanting to work or even not having 'chosen' to work, because they are forced, they have indeed 'chosen' to not continue fighting back? Workers always outnumber managers and bosses, in exactly the same way as citizens outnumber politicians, but look at the mess we ALLOW to happen? Again, I can't speak for the boy and I can't dent it is abhorent; I can state factually, however, that majorities always let minorities rule. And this, I'm afraid, results in the majority getting what it deserves. It chooses not to fightback. Imagine the mining situation if they had fought? And fought hard? The boy would not have lost fingers because he would not be working in such conditions. I'll say a third time; it is unspeakable. But, as hard as it is to say, the fact still remains. I will take the time to learn about this subject, however.

Your murdered homeless man is a sad tale and I am touched. He lost everything and landed on the streets. He did not deserve to lose his business but I do feel you are missing the point a little bit with this example. It's like saying "My friend was really nice and was a great artist, but he got cancer and died. Did he deserve to die?" These are things OUTSIDE human control. That is a way of life. I could be hit by a car tomorrow and die - I know a lot of people will be negatively affected by this, but I wouldn't have 'deserved' it. Unfortunately, life will have dealt me that hand and so be it That is life and I am sorry. I should not have to speak for life like a representative.

I do hope I didn't break the ice. I am sensitive to the cruelty and subject but I do want to try and force through the point of 'getting' what you 'deserve' through 'choice' (rather than unfortunate life circumstances beyond our control). I really can't say anything on the matter since I'm not an almighty force over the citizens of this world.

reply to post by taccj9903


Interesting. I'm not single and I live about 1,200 miles away from my parents in Eastern Europe, not doing too badly. I also lived 5 years without them in Paris doing alright. Been here about 1 year now. I'm 27. Been out of home about 7 years in total and don't rely on anybody for money. I just create opportunities and reap rewards if they choose to come to me. Usually they do.

I appreciate my views will change and 'to be homeless' can happen to anybody - but I can't believe that it's the only thing possible in given circumstances. There are too many things to do in this world. Too many places to go. Too many people to meet... than to sit outside a shop.

And if I ever find myself in that situation, I will be on the road and using my talents to be noticed again. Doing nothing is not a solution in this massively rich world. (rich not in the sense of money).

Yea your right on the "we all have choices" train of thought.
That pretty much comes with life, choices.
I completely understand where your coming from...
but then again from my point of view seems like you havent really experienced a great amount of oppression from the choice of your words...

A person can be so optimistic, have lets say 2,000 choices of what to do in life (hypothetically speaking), then an oppressor cuts those choices down to 2, he tries both, they dnt seem to work now what????

His spirit is now crushed, hell he doesnt even want to try anything else now...everything the person tried is not working.. so thats war lead him to being on the street corner, maybe thats the ONLY thing thats working for him at the time...

You gotta look at things from all different types of angles,,, maybe he tried so hard to do things but now his spirit is crushed and doesnt necesarily need your money, but a sign of new hope, which all humans can give him through talking, understanding, and suggesting new things to try all throught the power of GENUINE WORDS, that right there is the true power of humans that we have yet to master,,,

Just think if you didnt give him ANY money, but you gave him a business plan, or a plan to help himself full of ideas and hope.. dont you think that woulda helped him much more than a fiver he's gonna spend and forget about within the next five minutes??

reply to post by DB340


I agree that everyone is accountable for their choices; however, we can't judge everyone we see and believe they had a choice to be where they are at now. I don't see anything wrong with helping people out who have made bad choices that may have contributed to them being homeless or unemployed, people make mistakes.

Originally posted by DB340
reply to post by taccj9903

 

Interesting. I'm not single and I live about 1,200 miles away from my parents in Eastern Europe, not doing too badly. I also lived 5 years without them in Paris doing alright. Been here about 1 year now. I'm 27. Been out of home about 7 years in total and don't rely on anybody for money. I just create opportunities and reap rewards if they choose to come to me. Usually they do.

I appreciate my views will change and 'to be homeless' can happen to anybody - but I can't believe that it's the only thing possible in given circumstances. There are too many things to do in this world. Too many places to go. Too many people to meet... than to sit outside a shop.

And if I ever find myself in that situation, I will be on the road and using my talents to be noticed again. Doing nothing is not a solution in this massively rich world. (rich not in the sense of money).

I apologize, my mistake.

reply to post by boymonkey74


As I responded before, there is a difference between deserving from your efforts and deerving from what life serves you. People, you included, seem to bring them into the same boat. They are not.

I don't want to repeat myself, but nobody deserves to get cancer and die... no matter who they are. That is not a choice you made. You didn't choose to be a criminal so you got cancer and it kills you. That 'would' be a good sentence for bad criminals that society doesn't want, but that's life and we can't control it.

However, this criminal has chosen to steal. He may reap 'rewards' from his 'efforts' but it will not work for long so when he is caught and (hopefully) locked up, he has got what he derserves. If he dies of cancer, yes, he 'got what he deserves' but the cancer didn't kill him consciously. If was just coincidence that he was a drop out of soceity who chose a bad life. Beyond our control.

And I am not saying do not help. I do sometimes give some spare change, but at the same time, I know that it will either be spent on beer or drugs. Why support it?

He has a choice to get up, go somewhere and do something. Hell, he might even be a great painter and start selling some paintings and get noticed! Most great people came from nothing. And they didn't come from nothing by sitting outside a store.

reply to post by DB340


We are meant to experience all sorts of things. Being rich. Being poor. All types of duality. If you cant help your fellow man then what are you doing here? I understand a lot of people beg to avoid jobs. But in this economy the odds are against that. Even if he blows the money u have the priviledge to feel good about helping someone. Dont over analyze it. The lady was wrong because she didnt treat him like a human being.

I do not agree at all. I do not agree with the man's approach. You should not confront people in weird places requesting money because it feels like it could turn into a robbery some times.... but i do not agree that he can simply go do something with his life. there may be MANY reasons why he cannot and types like that are still valid in reality and might just be here to test the charity of others... and not even know it. they may have lost their way to materialism by by not selling out and may have even been hit with injury from his previous life experience.... maybe he was a HARD worker who got screwed by a company like walmart when he had an accident and fell and hit his head and he can't be looked at properly and be judged disabled but maybe it set him so off kilter that he cannot easily find his way back.

like i said, i do not agree with his approach but perhaps he was very hungry. hunger will make you do things like that... then again, so will jonesing.

i think your actions in that case are your business but i do NOT agree that all are getting what they deserve this very minute... although i do believe in overall karma. maybe he is on this path to analyze the aspect of charity and dettachment from materialism for some reason his soul understands, but his mind does not and is learning.... but that lesson does not cover YOUR actions and opinions. it's not okay to say, well in his soul he is learning a valuable lesson about materialism and must have karmically chosen this... because you do not oversee such things for other people. YOUR karma is YOUR karma. Just like you can't justify the bloodshed of others simply because it is not happening to you and therefore you must conclude that it is simply because you don't want it to, while others are screaming their heads off and NOT sounding like they are getting what they deserve AT ALL.... because the reason that this is happening to them might just be to PROVE that people like you do not have compassion and cannot step outside your own perception. they may receive blessings in the next life, while it is decided that you are unworthy because you did not try to establish balance between those who have and those who have not. maybe the universe is searching for those who want balance in their own spirits and in their environment and wants to weed out those who do not. maybe it is preening upon it's own different expressions of energy and prefers balancing ones over large chaotic expressions of energy that take longer to balance out... like a well working machine rather than one that spits and sputters and shifts from egotistical exaltation and humble despair. you have to understand that in some way, you ARE that man... and you cannot judge him without knowing his story. he may be the missing piece to someone elses privileged existence. he is the balance for those who simply have way too much. you denied him a connection to the world he lives by assuming that this was a conscious choice he made, rather than is life being a balancing outcry from a spiritual plane. You see it as a self induced punishment when in fact, it could have been your wake up call... and you just hung up the phone.

reply to post by DB340


No you can't put people in the same boat like I said the world isn't just black and white, there are many reasons why people are homeless and you are putting them in the same boat by saying they will spend the money on drugs and beer, yes many do but many just want a belly full of food each day.
It's ok saying we get what we deserve when our life's are ok and we can buy a 42 inch plasma TV but when life throws you a sucker punch beyond our control we will say "I don't deserve this" and many times it isnt our fault, it's the fault of the world.
You can't just say that everyone in need deserves what hand life has given them. We are Human beings and it's in our genes to help people otherwise we wouldn't be here.

reply to post by DB340


How about this scenario:
You are loading your new big screen into the car. Homeless guy asks for some spare change, you tell him, "No, cause you're just going to use it for Booze or Drugs, which is exactly why you have no money now, so F-off Loser!!" Now angry at you for judging him and his situation in such a way he takes up a rock, slams you in the head and takes your car and new T.V.

Did you deserve to get thumped and robbed for being a prick to the guy??

Did he not see his opportunity and then act on it, and therefor get his reward as he deserved??? After all he didn't just sit and wait for the kindness of others, he did as you said and took advantage of an opportunity when it appeared.

reply to post by DB340


You don't have a clue who lives out on the street. Many of them have mental illnesses and biological disorders - their parents have died leaving them without a carer or financial stability that enables them to have one; put them in to the public system thats already broken down and they're automatically guinea pigs for big pharma; others may be drug addicts who can't afford decent private clinics that have far bigger success rates than 30 days in the public system where you on;y get one chance; then you have those that do choose the life out on the streets but you'll be shocked how many highly educated ex professionals and veterans are among them who too got lost through the system....and don't even get me going on the street kids where half of them got mixed up in the wrong crowds and those who have suffered extreme abuse at the hands of their parents and their parent's friends. You WILL find a majority don't want to be there but through lack of assistance from a system that has already broken down financially and through lack of man power......you figure it out.

Yes we do have choices in life but many don't have the mental capacity and need ongoing assistance for a time, some for the rest of their lives.

some will even try to claim that to NOT help others is actually helping them by making them struggle and learn and appreciate... when there is no notion more valuable to life than compassion.