Ron Paul's legislative successes (or rather lack of successes)

reply to post by Indellkoffer

But... we both have the right to vote for things. I'm voting against him based in part on his policies. It's okay if you vote for him.

This is worth repeating...and it's important for Ron Paul supporters to read it once or twice.

See this member doesn't agree with Ron Paul (I know...shocking), but she also says it is ok for you to vote for him...that is your right. That is called respect.

However, I mostly see Ron Paul supporters react the opposite way. They are usually of the think of, "If you don't vote for Ron Paul, you are a moron".

So no Ron Paul supporters...not everyone agrees with Ron Paul. That does not make them a shill, a troll, a moron, an idiot, a sheep, or a traitor. There is no "right" or "wrong" in politics...it is all personal opinion.

This thread is to present facts about a presidential candidate....it isn't to "attack" or "smear" Ron Paul. The facts are what they are, and individuals will decide what those facts mean to them.

I have found that Ron Paul supporters are very dedicated...but not very respectful...maybe that is something that could be worked on.

reply to post by MidnightTide

Where are the people being represented? Last time I looked, the people didn't want the bailouts - happened anyway.

If "the people" really didn't want the bailouts to happen...then they should of not re-elected the members of congress who voted for the bailouts. If they were really against it, they could of recalled the members that voted for the bailouts.

None of that happened...so it is false for you to say that the people didn't want it. If they didn't want it...they also didn't really care too deeply about it...because for the most part members weren't voted out or recalled.

There are two worlds here again...fantasy world where "the people" are furious over the bailouts...and the real world where "the people" really don't care that much.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
and who has said Ron Paul has the solutions to everything?

We get all these Ron Paul threads, pro and con - where are the threads about the other candidates?

Go make one....no one is stopping you.

I decided to cover this topic on this candidate because I thought it was important information that not a lot of people knew about. It turns out I was right.

But you are free to do the same with other candidates...don't expect me to do it for you.

reply to post by Indellkoffer

Just wanted to comment on what you said about RP's missing votes. I checked out the link you provided, and it appears that a very large percentage of times he didn't vote was because HE IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!!!
How can he cast a vote in DC if he has to be on the campaign trail? Do you expect him to fly back to DC every day?
As the OP has said repeatedly, it doesn't matter to congress how he voes, most all vote opposite of him anyway. Can't you people see that RP is the only one bringing up real issues? Show me another candidate talking about real issues...
Sorry for yelling, but to expect him to be in 2 different places at one time.......
Ron Paul Revolution 2012!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


The attempts to "derail" this thread with calls of "useless" and such is a prime example of how the Paul supprters work

Let's face it, they can't debate on what he has done as he has done NOTHING, so their only tactic is attack attack attack the debater.. They sure can not defend their candidate with facts, there are none..

I would say look at their voting record, but Paul has none

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Hate to say it but he's correct in his analysis of Ron Paul supporters.

Young, impressionable and badly misinformed on Paul's actual record.

Go ahead and vote for him but I guarantee that you'll be disappointed. If you want to start with change, that change should start with Congress and the House.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Indellkoffer

 

But... we both have the right to vote for things. I'm voting against him based in part on his policies. It's okay if you vote for him.

This is worth repeating...and it's important for Ron Paul supporters to read it once or twice.

See this member doesn't agree with Ron Paul (I know...shocking), but she also says it is ok for you to vote for him...that is your right. That is called respect.

However, I mostly see Ron Paul supporters react the opposite way. They are usually of the think of, "If you don't vote for Ron Paul, you are a moron".

So no Ron Paul supporters...not everyone agrees with Ron Paul. That does not make them a shill, a troll, a moron, an idiot, a sheep, or a traitor. There is no "right" or "wrong" in politics...it is all personal opinion.

This thread is to present facts about a presidential candidate....it isn't to "attack" or "smear" Ron Paul. The facts are what they are, and individuals will decide what those facts mean to them.

I have found that Ron Paul supporters are very dedicated...but not very respectful...maybe that is something that could be worked on.

Hmmm .. I respect your opinion ....but mate ...my opinion that 90 % of voters should be for Ron Paul ..it's weird and is somehow strange and non human if you dont agree with him ..it's simple ,Ron Paul is among rare politicians who want to help the ordinary and common people ..he is FOR the people ... i play couple of his speeches to my friends and my relatives which are non americans (so and i) and they are stunned ...and simple loved him on first sight ..and they react "we should have this man as our leader " or" this is perfect men for our president " etc etc . It's a shame from 435 congresmens and 100 senators you have one hand of people who are really there to help the American people.Peace out.

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

The attempts to "derail" this thread with calls of "useless" and such is a prime example of how the Paul supprters work

Let's face it, they can't debate on what he has done as he has done NOTHING, so their only tactic is attack attack attack the debater.. They sure can not defend their candidate with facts, there are none..

I would say look at their voting record, but Paul has none

You continue to try and compartmentalize the argument. You are a master of doublespeak and the hand is faster than they eye. Kudos to you.

The argument is no longer what legislation Ron Paul has passed - we all know (just for you OKS) it was ONE piece of legislation. The problem here is, you guys don't want to move beyond that.. You are sticking to this topic like it's some smoking gun, while we all admit that the OP is factual (at least the facts presented, not the opinions), and are arguing that it is not relevant and amount of legislation passed is a fool's way of measuring the value of a candidate. It's insignificant, irrelevent, and unimportant.

That being said -

Isn't your post the very definition of "derailment?" Derailment and covert personal attacks.

I have asked you important questions related to this issue, have you both chosen to ignore them. In fact, you have both chosen to ignore many of the valid points brought up in this thread.

You are subversive, dodgy, and misrepresent the facts. You, sir, are the one attempting to derail the thread - and the quoted statement above is evidence.

No offense, semperfortis, but neither of your posts add ANYTHING at all to the discussion, which is just as effective at derailing a thread as attempting to change the subject.

I know you're a big scary moderator and I should bite my tongue, but I, like Ron Paul, have always stood up firmly for what I believe in. Maybe that's another reason I like him so much.

Anyway, where there is some commentary worth a response I may do so, until then I'm checking out.

reply to post by hooberson3


You may be surprised on my political leanings. Suffice it to say, I make Reagan look like a tree hugger since I am more of a Constitutionalist and not a Republician.

reply to post by derst1988

You author a thread on the premise that Ron Paul has shown poor leadership skills, because his peers disagree with him. By your logic, I suppose Gregor Mendal, Ignaz Semmelweis, George Zweig, Albert Einstein, & Ludwig Boltzmann all failures because they were considered to be crazy scientists in their time.

Scientists are not the same as politicians.

Scientist can let their discoveries speak for themselves...politicians have to lead to convince people their positions are right and just. Ron Paul has failed to do this. No one is going to look back in history and talk about how successfull Ron Paul was as a congressman because he failed to get his bills passed

Your logic on the SCOTUS is troubling to me. You state, that if the SCOTUS does not deem something unconstitutional, than it is not. While I agree the official record states it is not unconstitutional, it does not mean it is not in-fact, unconstitutional.

Until the SCOTUS says it's unconstitutional...it is the law of the land and hence constitutional.

The Healthcare Reform bill is a perfect example. Some people think it is unconstitutional, some think it is constitutional...some courts have said it's unconstitutional, some courts have said it is constitutional. It is still the current law of the land and hence "constitutional" at this point because the SCOTUS has not ruled otherwise. Until the SCOTUS says it is unconstitutional...it is by default constitutional.

Something that is deemed constitutional at one point can be deemed unconstitutional at another point in time. It is a static definition and so all we have to go by is the ruling of the SCOTUS. Which is exactly how the Constitution declares it should be.

So the only question is, do you follow the constitution and thus abide by SOCUTS rulings...or are you going to ignore the constitution because you think you (or Ron Paul) are above the constitution and can operate outside of it's rules???

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Well if that is all you have to add, personal attacks, then checking out is best for you

I am posting as a Member so the "Big Bad Mod" comment is again, typical.. Like Paul, no substance at all

What has Paul DONE.. Not SAID... DONE...

Anyone?

Semper

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

How ridiculous. The reason we support Ron Paul is because he is the only one trying to do anything for the people. If his bills were being passed left and right we would have a lot more hope.

It's supposed to be a negative thing that the congress that is screwing us over has screwed us and RP over even more by not passing bills beneficial to the people? If anything it makes what we are up against more easily recognizable. You had to know this wasn't a legit argument. You are smarter than that.

How are facts not a legit argument???

I didn't make these up...they aren't false...it isn't a conspiracy against Ron Paul...there are no "ghost writers" involved here.

They are cold hard facts....Ron Paul is a failure when it comes to him getting his ideas through congress. Not just a little bit of a failure...he is a HUGE failure.

You can try to go with the "Ron Paul's failures are a sign of his success" route if you really really want to....but I would hope you are smarter than that as well.

It's not bad to admit a negative about the candidate you support...Ron Paul sucks at passing legislation...that is just a fact that can't be denied.

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Well if that is all you have to add, personal attacks, then checking out is best for you

I am posting as a Member so the "Big Bad Mod" comment is again, typical.. Like Paul, no substance at all

What has Paul DONE.. Not SAID... DONE...

Anyone?

Semper

Again, the argument has evolved beyond this petty platform - you should read the entire thread before posting.

I've added plenty, and also asked some good, relevant questions for you and Outkast, none of which have been addressed. If you guys are going to refuse to allow the conversation to evolve beyond "HAHAHA LOLZ RON PAUL HASN'T PASSED MANY LAWS LOLZ HAHA" then we might as well just delete the thread.

This is why I avoid arguing with you guys - you get stuck on one petty topic and just fixate for, what, it's been about a week now?

reply to post by TinkerHaus


WOW

I thought you left.. hmmmmmm

What has Paul DONE.. Not SAID... DONE...

Anyone?

No?

Didn't think so

Semper

reply to post by knows_but_doesnt

Chiming in to say I love this thread, and it shows a lot about what is wrong with America (reading the OPs reasoning and pretty much just foolish antics to try and defame maybe THE last man in America that we the people can count on to do the right thing)

Again..there are no antics...they are facts.

Ron Paul is responsible for his dismal performance in congress...it isn't my fault he can't get any of his ideas passed. Don't be mad at me because the candidate you support has no leadership skills to push his ideas through congress.

Ron has my vote, especially after reading this thread. Thank you OP.

Glad I could help.

Great job ATS'ers! Looks like Ron is gonna take this one hands down

How do you figure???

His small surge in Iowa already appears to be slowing if not fading...last poll out of Iowa has Romney up by 5 points.

New Hampshire, South Carolina and Florida...he isn't near the top spot by a long shot.

So how do you figure he has this locked up already???

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

WOW

I thought you left.. hmmmmmm

What has Paul DONE.. Not SAID... DONE...

Anyone?

No?

Didn't think so

Semper

Fair enough, I'll put my fingers in my ears too.

Peace!

Doctor Paul Is effective, AND successful.


Fact. Success can be measured many ways. Your interpretation of success is not global and
conclusive. Neither is mine. Success is measured best against a consensus of opinion.

Fact. I disagree with your opinion.

Fact. The majority of posters disagree with your opinion.

Fact. Compared to a global consensus of opinion, you are wrong in your assessment of success.

Fact. My straw man is BIGGER than your straw man.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

I knew that he was and is successful yes
Consistency is a win
Doing the right thing isn't always about winning, it's more about..... doing the right thing

If he was doing the "right thing" for 14 years...don't you think more people would have been supporting him over those years...or even now???

He does have consistency...consistency in failing to pass his bills.

Most consistent politician ever?
Why would someone be unhappy is what I would say

Consistency doesn't mean "good"...a lot of racist are very consistent in their views...doesn't make them good.

Unfortunately getting things done as president is as easy as writing an executive bill
Ron Paul said the only thing he would do with executive bill is make a blanket one that abolishes all previous ones

A president can steer a country, we are seeing this right before our eyes
See his immaculate voting record makes people think it will be towards the right direction

You can't find a candidate, not even your favorite one, that can hold a candle to him

Yes, people that have leadership skills and who are able to successfully persuade people that their ideas are good for the country. Ron Paul has a consistent record proving that he is unable to do this.

I still don't believe Ron Paul will even come in second in the overall republican nomination...let alone winning the general election. But I guess that just means that everyone who doesn't vote for Ron Paul is just wrong and uninformed...right?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
So far I have seen a lot of dodging and attempts to derail this thread.

There shouldn't need to be a reminder about what the topic of the thread is on the very first page...but it appears there is a need.

This thread is about Ron Paul and the legislation he has sponsored and passed (or failed to pass) in the past 14 years in Congress.

...

I understand that you Ron Paul supporters don't want to talk about his complete failure as a congressman...but those are the facts...he has failed as a congressman.

I think someone already answered you... he didn't sell out.
And how about you show us the bills his opponents have proposed, voted for and passed?

Ron Paul should be elected for the simple reason that he isn't accepting huge hand outs from corporations, the US should have a government that is run "by the people" not "the people they work for".