We the people VS Corporate Government

I just woke up with an idea many of you probably already thought of but i'm going to say it once and then we can talk about it


We need to find out who's donanating money to The republican party as well as the left.

find out who they are, stop doing business with those companies, even if it is wal mart you can get your damn products elsewhere...

If you stop feeding the demon he can't survive...

Since we're not just going to open fire and bust anyone with cap...

We need to hit em where it hurts the most.... (below the belt)
In their wallets

Politics is so discustingly supported by corporate conglomerates, it's hard for regular people to just tell them to stop ...

So stop feeding the source.... I think this way the message would get across pretty clear, they don't survive unless we keep feeding them..

And to me they've already over stepped the boundry and have bitten the hands that feed them way too many times...


So what do you all have to say to that?

All the links at: www.corporations.org...$$/

Open Secrets is a good one by the way.

I agree with you, but it's going to be really difficult. There's no insurance or medicine or healthcare you can buy that doesn't support Bush (and to some extent Kerry as they do like to cover bases). I suspect the same of any utility you have or gas you buy, or anything else.

But I'm not saying don't try.

Been meaning to ask you too about your take on 527's? Don't you think a bi-partisan group for choices in government could raise money for at least some newspaper ads to remind voters they have choices media doesn't cover and the big two won't debate: LP, Green, Nader, Constitution...and anyone else I left off?

Last chance before Bush get's your access to corporate media banned.

Problem is, what if the little mom & pop shop are avid Kerry supporters? Gonna boycott them? How about if they were Bush supporters? Make any difference?

RANT

Been meaning to ask you too about your take on 527's? Don't you think a bi-partisan group for choices in government could raise money for at least some newspaper ads to remind voters they have choices media doesn't cover and the big two won't debate: LP, Green, Nader, Constitution...and anyone else I left off?

I don't have a problem with 527's, per se. We need to be careful that we don't stop all forms of contribution in an effort to stop something we find disdainful. It's a form of free speech.

As for the bi-partisan (or non-partisan) group, there is no law stopping such a group from forming. The question you need to answer is WHY there are no such groups that are prominent, or successful.

One of the main reasons why the smaller politcal parties aren't getting any play is because the BUSINESS of politics has become a machine and a system for those in power, and those who support them in power.

It used to be, a long time ago, that politcal parties were formed around a philosophy, or an ideal, or perhaps a common motivation of people. The gentlemen and women involved in them were issue had philosophies they would freely write about and discuss.

This is not the case any longer in either the Republicanss or the Dems. The new generations of each party are based upon demographics more than any kind of philosophy, in truth they both do the same kinds of the things, just for different groups of people. Truth is, philosophy is not the business of either party anymore. Those who are invlved with the two parties are not thre because they have a philosophy of any kind, those people don't make it anymore. Their business IS BUSINESS, and the government is nothing more than a relationship between the corporations, the industries, and the money system. It ceased being an instituion of public debate a long time ago.

Media is now more powerful than it ever was before, and it knows it, and government has whored itself to the media because that's what keeps it in power. Nothing is going to break into that self-feeding cycle until the whole system comes crashing down. That's why the philosophers and the reformers and the thinkers can't get any cooperation from the media, or hope to gain any real numbers - It's not about truth or philosophy anymore. It's about the system, and money, and the brokerage of power.

Sad to say it kids, but the republic is DEAD.

Now we are in a whole new kind of business, and it STINKS.

Arkaleus

Arkaleus, for once I agree with you (kinda scary ). The government IS just a huge corporate whore. And you are exactly right, the media is as well, and will not let any third party get any real time in the spotlight. Any real change in government is going to have to come at the local level, and work it's way up. After this election, I will be doing everything in my power to promote third parties here in Phx. First order of business for me though is getting the warmongering neo-cons out, then I will focus on getting the Dems out, less innocent people (of all nationalities) will die that way. If we stay on the current course, America WILL fall, it will spend itself to death, it is certain.

Well said Arkaleus.

Boycotts are of limited effect unless everyone stops buying everything.

The response "by the people" to the corporate plutocracy now running our lives is to revoke the corporate charter.

I stated such in the thread titled Corporations: The Greatest Political Scandal Never Told. There are some good posts there on the topic.

A couple of related thoughts:

The national debt has risen strongly the first few days of
September. It now stands at $7.367 trillion. This is only $17
billion away from the legal debt ceiling, passed in May 2003.
As you know, the Constitution requires Congress to raise the
debt ceiling before the government can overspend above the
amount it last legalized. So we're very close to watching
Congress be forced to raise the debt ceiling or shut down
every part of the government that requires them to spend more
than it takes in.

Already, the Iraq incursion has cost the US around $200 billion, some say more. Furthermore, the US is paying the bill almost alone.

Cant you people see what will happens when the US gets into so much debt that it cant afford to pay them off?

They'll just not pay... they sit in debt and refuse to pay it back... and who's going to stop them? No-one! I realised this when i saw Bush spend you surplus and cause a defecit and go further and further into debt with seemingly no worries about how it will be paid.

As for the corporations and your govenrment, its sad to see that money drives your country so much, the problem is so few people can see this... or ifthey see this they dont really want to change it because that would affect their own comfort zone. The only way you guys will get out of your mess is by watching your govenrment destroy itself with greed and corruption and watch the world turn on your once great and noble country as more and more countries finally see what your really about.

I'd get out quick if i were you guys

Here is a link for campaign contributions for the 2004 race. Just click on their names and do some investigation (click on the tabs on the left hand side of the page under each candidates name, such as "Top Contributors" and "Top Industries")and you can see who is backing them:
www.opensecrets.org...

PS- Many of these are financial companies, so it would be very hard for many people to just quit using their services. The greed goes very deep in this world, and if you stopped using the "big companies" you would be investing in other companies that would eventually become big, so I really don't know a way to stop it...sadly!

Here is Bush's campaign contributors for the 2000 election. Just look at the 12th one down to see how far this goes:
www.opensecrets.org...

[edit on 9-9-2004 by Jazzerman]

Originally posted by 27jd
The government IS just a huge corporate whore. And you are exactly right, the media is as well, and will not let any third party get any real time in the spotlight. Any real change in government is going to have to come at the local level, and work it's way up.

Exactly. I have been wondering why Nader and Badnarik don't try shooting for local government. Come on guys, something is better than nothing. You can't have any hope at all of just shooting straight to the top. I mean, honestly....can you imagine if Badnarik did become president? He wouldn't be able to get anything done because the senate and congress would all be republican and democrat and I imagine they wouldn't like him coming in and crashing the party. All of the minority parties need to get their heads out of their a**es and figure out that they should stop wasting money on presidential campaigns and spend money productively on local campaigns.

[edit on 9-9-2004 by spngsambigpants]

Basically everyone is now seeing why capatilism sux... it breeds greed and corruption. I personally feel your presidential candidates should not be allowed to have corporate sponsorship and basically should have an allowance that they can spend on their campaigns. That way they wont owe anyone favours when they get in.

Originally posted by specialasianX
Basically everyone is now seeing why capatilism sux... it breeds greed and corruption.

Capitalism doesn't suck. It's much better than socialism, or any other -ism. What people do with it sucks.

The 300 bilion used for a war which has no purpose besides personal wealth gain for a select few could of been used for great things. There wealth grows off the blood that has been shed by both parties in this conflict.

If we are going to throw 300 billion at something let it be on our people first. I am sorry but the problems in Iraq will never be fixed by the US throwing money at it. It might shut some people up for awhile but they will be back once we end the occupation.

I think the people labeled "terrorists" by the government are not just doing what they do for "allah", but instead as a way to gain wealth. I believe this is what Saddam had done. using the backs and blood of the common man so he could horde wealth. But then again so has Mr. Bush and his corporations, contract corporations have made billions in Iraq off the smell of death.

Imagine 300 billion used to help fund mass transit projects, bettering the educational system, helping out our country solve it's problems first before we begin throwing money at foreign countries.

The supporters of the Iraq War tend to be called "neocons" and could care less about the well-being of his fellow countrymen but is more worried about keeping the US ego inflated while world opinion goes down. I think in Europe many countries had long ago traded in ego and power for a quality environment and a high standard of living. I find no gain off my country with it's inflated ego, I like to see progressive politics whenever possible.

And no socialism does not "suck" as a system. But perhaps it sucks to those who do not wish to give up ego/power for a progressive future. Many countries have adopted some form of socialism if not a major mix between socialism/capitalism. Unfortuntely you still see the brainwashed right-wing immediately refering to Socialism as a system which promotes "equalized wages". These people have never studied the true realities of socialism beyond the reference to communism it always gets.

[edit on 10-9-2004 by RedOctober90]

True Lies,

The title for your thread brought up something interesting I'd like to share. Does anyone here besides me believe that our constitution has gone from "We the People" to "We the Government?" Think about it. We the Government in order to form a more perfect government has granted themselves more power with a National Intelligence Director and Patriot Act. This is giving the government more power without the involvment of the American people. Don't the American citizens have a say so in any of this?

Here is a discusting link that talks about what our ''elected'' reps are doing behind closed doors...

www.bmstahoe.com...

Which of the following items are included in the U.S. Senate's "emergency spending legislation," designed to pay for the U.S.' illegal invasion of Yugoslavia?

1. Up to $1 billion (that's with a "B") in loan guarantees for steel companies, and another $500 million in loans for oil and gas corporations.
2. Foreign aid for hurricane victims in Latin America. Where is money for Americans in Oklahoma? The Congress throws Our Money away in Latin America and loans money (sticks-it-to) Americans! Our Money should never even go to Washington in the first place.
3. A measure to remove a certain fish from the Endangered Species list.
4. A plan to let states spend $246 billion in tobacco funds on programs totally unrelated to smoking. Funds obtained from Tobacco lawsuits were never earmarked to cover health expenses. WE know how it works. Tell tobacco opponents a lie, then spend the results of sanctioned theft on anything they want. Tobacco companies just laid down and capitulated. The decision to use tobacco products is entirely personal.
5. All of the above.

"If you guessed 'all of the above,' you're correct," said Steve Dasbach, national director of the Libertarian Party. "Under the guise (LIE) of helping the military, opportunistic politicians are helping themselves by funneling our money to their favorite special interest groups. As this bill proves, WAR isn't just another government program to Senate Republicans and Democrats -- it's just another pork-barrel government program."

that's just one thing...... click the link to read more....
We need to elect different reps, this is disturbing to say the least...



www.bmstahoe.com...

Originally posted by TrueLies
Here is a discusting link that talks about what our ''elected'' reps are doing behind closed doors...

www.bmstahoe.com...

Thanks for the link True Lies. I know! It's unbelievable what our country has evolved into. Basically our constitution is being burned as we speak. No longer do we have a say in what the government does from a day to day basis. Let's take the Patriot Act for example. They didn't ask me what I thought of the Patriot Act.

An elected representative democracy doesn't give you the option...

Which is why we need to get these reps out of the senate and put new ones in..
Of course you should know by now who I think we should put in there!

libertarians of course!

The consitution party would be good too...

Seems these are the only parties that give a damn about that brilliant document and our freedoms/rights....

Originally posted by TrueLies
An elected representative democracy doesn't give you the option...

Which is why we need to get these reps out of the senate and put new ones in..
Of course you should know by now who I think we should put in there!

libertarians of course!

The consitution party would be good too...

Seems these are the only parties that give a damn about that brilliant document and our freedoms/rights....

I agree with you there True Lies. It's interesting you should say libertarian because (rep) Ron Paul of Texas says he's a republican but he's actually a libertarian. His views on the government sure seem to point to that conclusion. What do you think?

www.house.gov...
www.paul2004.com...

This one I really like because he shares his thoughts on some of the issues:
www.lewrockwell.com...

www.lewrockwell.com...


Would this coincide with what your talking about???

Lerockwell website is a great source for information...

I think we should all start electing LP's to the senate...

I'm going to take alook at that site.

Originally posted by mrmulder
www.paul2004.com...

This one I really like because he shares his thoughts on some of the issues:
www.lewrockwell.com...

America is yearning for a statesman in the White House. Let's deliver.


I'll drink to that!

WE the people definitely need a statesman in office, not some blowhard political flip flop lying corporate puppet ahole.