The Arabic school textbooks which show children how to chop off hands and feet under Sharia law

reply to post by Manouche


Can you please highlight what you believe the intent is?

Also this is not the only report which verifies the claims...would you like another source?

reply to post by forklift


Whether or not Saudi Arabia has less crime due to their harsh penalty system doesn't do much to clear my conscience. Does that make it right? I suppose Singapore's mandatory executions for anyone caught with drugs is also fine, since it lessens the trafficking?

I would prefer to never see amputations because it's a form of torture. How can you equate all forms of stealing, including petty, to torture? Yet that's the mindset of these savages. Commit any type of sin under their rule and your entire future will be ravaged. You'll be made to suffer to the utmost even if you did not suffer anyone else.

Also, the US actually does have a ruthless and merciless penal system in that we imprison more people for non-violent crimes than any other nation. We have 5 percent of the worlds' population but 25 percent of the prisoners. & People put into the prison system nearly always turn out for the worse. Constant fear of sexual assault, beatings, being brutally murdered. Unfortunately many of the justice systems around the world, Sharia or not, are greatly flawed.

reply to post by Daedal


Can you find a source that is not by Leon Watson ?

Multiple reports does not equal to different sources. It's the internet, copy, link, spread.

The intent at the bare minimum is to sensationalize for cheap, get clicks and generate traffic. At worst, the intent is to deliberately condition the masses.

Now that you get me started and just for kicks, an anthology of Watson's last articles at the Mail :

Rick Perry wore same jacket in anti-gay ad that Heath Ledger wore in Brokeback Mountain

Sodomy (and sex with animals) to be decriminalised in the military with constitutional change

Pair jailed for torturing semi-conscious man after they 'argued whether X Factor contestant Rebecca Ferguson would sleep with them'

Puss in box! Tiger gets in a tangle with her early Christmas present

It sounds like one cultured journalist.

Originally posted by Manouche
reply to post by Daedal

 

Can you find a source that is not by Leon Watson ?

Multiple reports does not equal to different sources. It's the internet, copy, link, spread.

The intent at the bare minimum is to sensationalize for cheap, get clicks and generate traffic. At worst, the intent is to deliberately condition the masses.

Sure here is one...also I don't care about traffic or conditioning the masses, but would like to discuss this with integrity.

Link

I have clicked your link, it's a pdf entitled "Ten years on, Saudi Arabia's textbooks still promote religious violence."

This I have no doubt and I don't support it, I strongly criticise and denounce it.

It's a long document. I have searched the words, chop : 0 results, feet : 0 results, foot : 0 results, hand : 5 results, all irrelevant.

What did you want to show me with this link ? I don't support Sharia laws, I don't support Saudi Arabia.

The article in your OP still looks like awful and dishonest journalism. It has to be denounced too.

reply to post by Manouche


The correlation between the two articles is based around text books circulating amongst the youth in Saudi Arabia that promotes violent material...and the pdf only highlights and verifies the use of religious based beliefs in criminalizing human behavior, as is the chopping off of body parts plays into.

Also if these religious laws, blaspemy being the major one, is imparted into the American society, which appears to be the case, then will we be subject to punishment under the laws of Sharia?

Originally posted by forklift
reply to post by Raelsatu

 

Well i just checked Saudi crime stats. Apparently Sharia law is very effective and Saudi is on the bottom of the list when it comes to crime. And also i have heard they chop limbs in front of public so any potential criminal could scrap his plans after seeing the choppin himself.

And maybe they have less "mental" illnesses too !

Maybe the punishment cures the next case !

Just think how many crimes would have been committed if the law was different !

Originally posted by Tea4One
Source is the daily mail. I wouldn't believe it until I see a more credible and less hateful source. The daily mail speak to much **** for me to take seriously.

That's "HUDUD"! the punishment part of Islamic law and "SHARIA"! Neither without the other.

Go google it.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
You do know that there are many occasions where being a thief is linked to mental illness yes? Cleptomania is part of that. People stealing but theyre not doing it on purpse it's a mental disease. Socialization has a significant impact on wether or not people grow up to be thieves too.

I have about given up on arguing or debating the mindset which would find a reason...some reason....ANY reason.. to outright excuse or at least rationalize criminal behavior. We aren't even talking about any specific thief to have circumstances to discuss. Just the general concept of thieves 'over there somewhere' is enough to begin theorizing on ways it must not be their fault. It would be humorous if I didn't know you were quite serious about it.

Some times a punk is a punk. They're born punks. They'll live their lives as punks. Then one day, they'll put the world out of their personal misery and die as punks. That isn't a fair statement for EVERYONE who makes mistakes in life..but it describes enough people on the wrong side of the moral and legal lines of society to be accurate often enough.

I'll still say in my best Yoda voice 'Hands they no have...things they take not!', Sometimes, simple works. If only they could get over that hate garbage for strictly religious or ethnic basis.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
You do know that there are many occasions where being a thief is linked to mental illness yes? Cleptomania is part of that. People stealing but theyre not doing it on purpse it's a mental disease. Socialization has a significant impact on wether or not people grow up to be thieves too.

I have about given up on arguing or debating the mindset which would find a reason...some reason....ANY reason.. to outright excuse or at least rationalize criminal behavior. We aren't even talking about any specific thief to have circumstances to discuss. Just the general concept of thieves 'over there somewhere' is enough to begin theorizing on ways it must not be their fault. It would be humorous if I didn't know you were quite serious about it.

Some times a punk is a punk. They're born punks. They'll live their lives as punks. Then one day, they'll put the world out of their personal misery and die as punks. That isn't a fair statement for EVERYONE who makes mistakes in life..but it describes enough people on the wrong side of the moral and legal lines of society to be accurate often enough.

I'll still say in my best Yoda voice 'Hands they no have...things they take not!', Sometimes, simple works.

If only they could get over that hate garbage for strictly religious or ethnic basis.

edit on 25-12-2011 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I'm not making excuses for them but it is what it is. Each case has it's own reasons. Cutting off their hands or feet is as extreme as you can get. Maiming someone permanantly isn't even necessary. We have problems with robbery and thievery in the U.S. because we are too lenient but amputating limbs will cause more problems in the end than it solves. In the U.S. these people would end up on disability and the tax payers would end up eating that bill and in the long run it would cost more money.

Now if you want to whip them and give them the 39 lashes and cut the blood from their flesh i am sure that would be a more memorable experience without permanantly crippling them. Yes they should be punished by why jump straight to the extreme and amputate? You take away any usefulness they may have. In times passed some countries had penal legions where criminals were given military service and sent straight to the front lines and if they died then so be it, if they survived the war then they earned their freedom.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I appreciate your view point even if I disagree with it. I try and keep in mind when I look at things like the justice system in Saudi Arabia, that they live and operate in a whole different reality than we do here. I know they see it the same way looking at us. Perhaps in a society and culture where blowing up women and children with suicide vests a few hundred miles to the North East or airplanes, makes the handling of smaller crimes a little more critical to them. After all, there is a fair % of every population over there that doesn't just want to change regimes...but kill current leaders in unimaginable ways. lol.. Nothing seems to be half way in that region.

My main point is what I often come back to though. What business is it of the United States or the west in general to say chopping the paws off a punk is good or bad? I doubt it has ANYTHING to do with rehabilitation in their minds. Especially when it's so often carried out in the public square. I'd say it's the ultimate deterrence and physically removing a thieves ability to steal again. Eye for an Eye to the extreme..and they DO see it that way. I tend to admire their system.......as long as they keep it THERE. Not HERE.

When in Rome.....don't tell the Romans they dress funny and wouldn't know a law if it bit 'em. The results are never pretty. lol....

reply to post by Daedal


I can find Christian fundamentalist information repeating these same or similar themes right here in America. The Westboro Baptist Ministry springs to mind. And who doesn't know how to cut off a foot? In the Christian Bible there is the sincere recommendation in Matthew 5:30

And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

...and I am certain some of the older texts even have artistic illustrations.

I am not defending Christians or this edit but saying it is a part of something much older than either of us and you can't deny it. To all of a sudden act surprised is a little ingenuous I would say. It is not a law meant to be taken literally. By now in our shared history, most people agree. There is a cache of hard sell cases left over from the dark ages - the world is taking its sweet time to bring them up to date. This is where the world needs help.

Some people and even some groups of people can be pretty awful when left unattended and without scruples, moral fiber or guidance. We know that.
Some others seem to fare well on their own because they have strong and honorable principals tempered with human kindness and compassion.
Spread peace not fear. If you are mongering anything let it be goodwill.
Otherwise all hope for us is lost. We may as well leave the field. Go home. Where ever that is.

At least the executioner who also amputates is a nice man. He has several children himself and always discusses leniency with the victim or victim`s family.

"He keeps his sword razor sharp and sometimes his children help him clean it."

"I use a special sharp knife, not a sword. When I cut off a hand I cut it from the joint. If it is a leg the authorities specify where it is to be taken off, so I follow that."

His son is following in his footpath and has also become an executioner.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by Violater1
Condoning the traumatic amputation of heads, arms, hands, and feet??????
Ah yes, another hateful thread on this very very piecefull religion.
When will people learn that there is no hatefulness in the muslim religion.

edit on 25-12-2011 by Violater1 because: (no reason given)

LOL sarcasm??



your "peacefull" religion allows for a 14 year old boy, to take a still LIVING and breathing human being and be-head him with a dull knife, while he gargles and sploorges out blood as he takes his last dying breath, all long this being filmed.

how is this peacefull? HYPOCRISY runs rampant in this disgusting animalistic world....

now go ahead and bow your head and arch your ass into the air...just make sure you dont fart...its stinky enough in that dump...i mean mosque already

Originally posted by Ixtab
highly modern, westernised nation such as Iran..

Not so modern ....

Women can not ski in Iran without a male guardian
Iranian 'morality' police arrest young woman for baring her feet
Iran - Dancing kindergardeners is immoral
Iranian 'morals' police enforce dress code
Iran - necklace ban for men - 'immoral'
Gay holocaust in Iran
Iran executes 2 gay teenagers
Iran does far worse than ignore gays
Christian Pastor in Iran sentenced to Death for not converting to Islam
Iraninan woman to be hung or stoned to death for adultry

LESSON - Big buildings and motor cars doesn't make a country 'modern' or 'westernized' at it's core.

If people have a problem with this then don't go to Saudi Arabia and steal anything. What goes on in their country is their business. If we spend more time sticking our own noses in our own business instead of other countries then maybe our country wouldn't be so messed up.

I wonder if the right-wing Capitalists on this website, the Islamic apologists, are going to show themselves and apologise for once again supporting a heinous Islamic country for their own financial benefit?

Where are all the Conservatives and Republicans? Where are the rightist capitalists who support nations such as Saudi Arabia now? Hiding in the wood work I imagine, so that the leftists on here don't expose your hypocrisy by highlighting you support for Muslim lunatics

Oh..... You don't like it when the script is flipped on you, huh?

Can anyone read Arabic and please translate the text on the page in question?

I would like to know the exact context of these pictures, it should be fairly legible to anyone skilled in reading this language.

Hey maybe it's true? I don't know.
But I would like to know the context before I jump the gun here.
Thanks.

Originally posted by Ixtab
reply to post by Violater1

 

Just like there are no hateful Americans with there death penalty?

Death for a death = Eye for an eye

Stealing personal belongings for a hand or a foot = Not eye for an eye


If a man is a thief, steal his home away, if he has no home steel his freedom away.

Amputating body parts as punishment for stealing material goods is wrong, anyone should be able to know this.