Quake Watch 2012

reply to post by muzzy

And just when you think you have found a source you can rely on .......................

You can rely on no one but yourself these days and I even find myself unreliable sometimes!

LDEO is of course not really measuring the same thing.

reply to post by PuterMan


actually at this point ,,if 5.5 and up were the only things shown,, might,,, make quake watching more fun again,,

yes swarms,, are everywhere,,ya ok,,

even a true 6
and up,,,
make a LOT less work for everyone,,

All in Favour say AYE
All opposed-------->NAE

reply to post by Olivine


Well it is not in the same direction as the one two days ago.

Here is B925 2 days ago: B935.PB..EHZ.2012.165 and you can see that the quake was much closer to B935, which indeed it was.

Here is B935 today at the same scale: B935.PB..EHZ.2012.167 and as you can see your green one hardly shows.

I have the sound file for the green one now, It sounds strange - in fact it looks strange.



I am not quite sure how to explain this. Normally, at least on a close by quake, that body of amplitude would start at the sharp increase. What we have here is a small sound and three 'bumps' (you can just see them on the spectrum) before the main sound arrives. The whole effect is a sort of 1-2-3-4-boom.

1-2-3-4-boom.zip

This is a little way from the borehole maybe ~60km I would guess. Unfortunately Vase crashed on me as I was trying to get another time fix.

Here is B933.PB..EHZ.2012.167 and I can't show 934 at the same scale as the sensitivity is set completely differently and the whole this is a mess. Here it is toned down so you can see it. B934.PB..EHZ.2012.167

Not even sure you can see that quake on there.

My very rough guess until I can get back in to Vase is that it lies somewhere here:

reply to post by PuterMan


PM, you rock!

That audio file is so strange. It sounds like echo's of the 1st boom.

I agree with you that it was located south and west of the June 13th quakes. I first noticed it on TA.N02D..BHZ (Trinity Center, CA), and then followed it west to the coast.

Puterman, where is the appropriate place to ask random earthquake related questions? This thread, Quake Nerd Corner (I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment, btw), or start a new thread for various tectonic questions?

reply to post by Olivine


I would think thet the Geophysical thread started by Zenius would be a good place as it already has some plate tectonics stuff there.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As far as the next QNC item goes I regret i seem to have fallen behind a little.

reply to post by BobAthome


I'd like to say AYE Bob, but ya know I've had some 4.8's near me that were a bit unsettling, especially if you haven't had one for a while.
Setting 5.5 as the base line is a bit high I think, for example down south of me they have been getting quite a few 5.0-5.1's along the Pacific Antarctic Ridge/Balleny Is., don't seem significant when you are living in Newfoundland or Yellowknife, but hey if your part of part the planet was bucking like a wild bronco in your direction you'd want to know about it wouldn't you.
It bugs me how the main networks ignore this region, when thats where all the action starts (spreading ridge) that ends up in NZ, Japan, Aluetians and South America (subduction). As I posted last page even LDEO are removing events from there now, perhaps under instruction from their bosses.
So I have to say NAE, we need to know about these "moderate" quakes IMO, especially if the most commonly quoted source on this site is ignoring them.

I would add though that I'm all for making 5.5 - 6.5 the new "strong" category rather than 6.0-6.9, that would remove the seemingly constant need to offer up all the "estimates" either side of 6.0.
Along the lines of the Japan Shindo scale system where they have 6 lower and 6 upper etc

I don't think anything lower than 4 is worth bothering with, unless they are part of a swarm or aftershock series. or you felt it yourself.

reply to post by PuterMan

Maybe the others should start measuring the S wave, after all thats the one that makes things shake.

This can't be missed

report by the NAP/NRC/NAS and news on it by AP

Report itself

Induced Seismicity Potential in Energy Technologies
www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13355

---

Jun 15, 1:15 PM EDT

Report: Don't worry much about quakes and fracking

By SETH BORENSTEIN
AP Science Writer

hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SCI_MANMADE_QUAKES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The controversial practice of hydraulic fracturing to extract natural gas does not pose a high risk for triggering earthquakes large enough to feel, but other types of energy-related drilling can make the ground noticeably shake, a major government science report concludes.

Even those man-made tremors large enough to be an issue are very rare, says a special report by the National Research Council. In more than 90 years of monitoring, human activity has been shown to trigger only 154 quakes, most of them moderate or small, and only 60 of them in the United States. That's compared to a global average of about 14,450 earthquakes of magnitude 4.0 or greater every year, said the report, released Friday.

Most of those are caused by gas and oil drilling the conventional way, damming rivers, deep injections of wastewater and purposeful flooding. Only two worldwide instances of shaking - a magnitude 2.8 tremor in Oklahoma and a 2.3 magnitude shaking in England- can be attributed to hydraulic fracturing, a specific method of extracting gas by injection of fluids sometimes called "fracking," the report said. Both were last year.

"There's a whole bunch of wells that have been drilled, let's say for wastewater and the number of events have been pretty small," said report chairman Murray Hitzman, a professor of economic geology at the Colorado School of Mines. "Is it a huge problem? The report says basically no. Is it something we should look at and think about? Yes."

(...)

reply to post by PuterMan


Thanks for the thread link. That will keep me busy reading for a while, and give me a proper home for questions.

It looks like USGS decided the quake we were discussing earlier was a Mag 2.7 located 72km offshore. We were close.

reply to post by muzzy


From their web page, LDEO lists quick CMTs for M > 5.5, and aim to be complete after a few months for M > 5.0. So if events disappear, they might have fallen below their threshold for posting.

Nobody tells LDEO to remove earthquakes for non-scientific reasons, and they wouldn't do it even if asked. Any earthquake above M5 cannot be hidden, given the range of networks reporting earthquakes around the world and the ease of surveying them on the internet, and I've never heard of a government trying hide the occurrence of earthquakes. Nuclear tests and potential fracking events are more contentious, but again, the existence and magnitude of the events gets reported - the interpretation is the tricky part.

The only editing of data is for sonic and acoustic recordings of military planes and ships, just as a civilian cannot take a camera into many military bases. Occasionally, countries developing nuclear weapons obfuscate in-country seismic recordings, variably to hide or exaggerate their capabilities, but if the magnitude is above 4, attempts to confuse seismologists fail.

reply to post by JohnVidale


Yes I see from looking at Global CMT June 9th they only do the bigger ones ie Taiwan 6 and Kuri Is. 5.5.
However I'm referring to the Surface-wave event locations derived from Near Real Time Data
They go down to 4.6 (did in May anyway)
Its good to hear they are independant and can't be govt. puppets. I'd like to believe you.
The only legit explanation for removing that quake ( and a few others) that I can think of is that they made a mistake.
That happens from time to time on Geonets database, I did the same process on their data as well in the past and found a few in the Mag 4 range that were offshore that didn't appear in the data 2-3-6 months later.
But in the LDEO case the event they came up with checks out with the phases travel arrival time at SNZO station and its on the LISS graph for that day, so it did happen. If it was somewhere else the Arrival Times of the LR wave wouldn't match up with the trace on the graph.There are no reports on any Networks that I can access on the Internet of any earthquakes within 5000km of SNZO around that time line.
At a stretch those two traces could be Vanuatu, they look similar to a Vanuatu signal in the low mag 5 range, but Vanuatu is pretty well covered by USGS and GeoAu and two within an hour of that size would have been hard to miss.
I'd e-mail LDEO and ask, but Puterman already did so on something else and never got a reply (as far as I know).

Prior to finding LDEO I used to post on Quake Watch some "mystery quakes" that were showing up on SNZO, some did turn up weeks later on Geofon or USGS lists, and were from the Southern Ocean area, but not all of them were "located". So you can see my dissapointment when the source that actually does bother with that area starts to remove events from their list.
Looks dodgy.

reply to post by muzzy


I don't think they put any emphasis on reporting everything that they see, rather they are known for their solution's quality once they've had time to perfect the solutions. Their quick solutions are very good, but their final solutions are the real product.

So if an event disappears, I'd guess it is because they are not happy with it's quality, and don't think it warrants working on now. Nobody at Lamont is paid to respond quickly, they throw out quick solutions because they can and it's useful.

Do you know how hard it is to shut me up?
Sometimes it's not possible.
I opened my email alert on earthquakes and the stink has caused me to put my hands over my mouth and nose.
There seems to be only one topic.
Fracking.
I'm choking on my rage. Someone's already posted link- so there's nothing else to say except

bull_______ (fill in the blank)

( pretty good eh? a one word summation)






I'm no good at this. I almost need to rant. I should ask you if I should in a vote because we live in a democracy, that thing they invented in that country on fire- (not Syria, the other one) Greece. Little old ladies can't get thier medicine there.

I tried close the page with the earthquake email alerts. It had a little story on carbon sequesrtr- it's a stupid term meant to confuse people. It's pumping Carbon Dioxide into the ground in the same way they dispose of the waste water in fracking. Sequestration. Did I spell it right? A judge said I was intransigent. Big words hurt my brain. I'm lying.He he he. I knew it meant. Anyway, they are already doing it in many states. Arkansas, Alabama just to start at the A's, I wonder if they do it in Alaska? I don't think so.

That isn't even the reason for this .... It's when I opened my alert on Arkansas and found a story on crime and justice. It was about lethal injection. arkansasnews.com...

That's what set me off. I could have closed my email and continued. But no. What an amazing title for a book?
Because that's what's going to cause the largest disaster in American History.
Lethal Injection

The novel writes itself. I just wrote the prison scene in my head. WOW.

stop it hurts

reply to post by JohnVidale


Paid
I thought they were students

Oh well they do a good job as far as it goes, the thing about archiving is if there is a change (removal, alteration or whatever) it should be noted, otherwise might as well not bother.

I mean what is the purpose of all this earthquake research if you don't keep the data for future reference?
Utsu had the right idea when digitalizing the Catalog of Damaging Earthquakes in the World, even if he wasn't sure, he made a note of it.
I'll keep an eye on them anyway..

reply to post by ericblair4891

About Alaska and carbon sequestering... They definitely are heading that way. (They already frack.) But rather than divert too far in this thread I've posted about it with some reliable references on Robinesque Ruminations, page 23

One of their major motivations is to be able to continue to supply cheap fuel to the military... And also to "force" more oil out of the ground. They admit there is a risk because of seismicity in the region but they pretty much brush it aside with a rather illogical argument.

Anyway, the details are in the post. Apologies to Puterman and others if I've gone a little OT with this post but the matter does have some bearing on the subject of seismic activity.

Best regards,

Mike

Hawaii sure seems to be rumbling quite a bit lately,.
I have read the lava flows on the big Iland also have increased..
Hmm warming core maybe?

Ok nothing happen but i want to share this with you.

Today june 16 at 12:15 EST in Québec city we got some quake cloud a friend took this photo

reply to post by Dolby_X

How do you know its a "quake cloud"?

Has there been a quake in Quebec?

Thats like saying a quake is a foreshock, you won't know if it was a foreshock until the main shock happens.

reply to post by muzzy


Well these cloud are usualy associate with quake activity like im saying nothing till now and hope it stay like that

I'll be brief and to the point. Carbon dumping and injection cause earthquakes. That bull report is wrong they'll created earthquakes 5.5+. And it's not the size of the earthquake is, it's what could it trigger if it causes a full rupture. And dearies, it's way passed 5.5 on the shakey dial.

Another good reason to understand earthquakes and their risks, and why we should underestimate them, we are storing nuclear waste underground. If inactive faultline are invisible until start moving, or you get some good data elsewise, you don't know where they all are.

It's all about risk.

Here's a good question to ask yourself. Is it risky to drill, frack and inject on or around known and unknown fault zones?

Before they were claiming there was no risk. Then the risk was only the injection wells. Now, yes, they were two times, but that's it I swear, they'll never be another, trust me baby, i love you and only you. It was two times. only two times. and i didn't love her

The simple truth is the risk is growing.

Wanna make money. Set up shop wherever you see frack trucks rolling by and sell earthquake insurance.