Syria's Torture Machine (Warning* Contains distressing scenes)

Originally posted by type0civ
I answered the question in the opening post. With regard to the atrocities by the Syrian govt, to be honest I have not followed the news on it and in general I dont even watch the national news anymore. Its difficult to sift through and decide what is news and and what is propaganda today as i'm sure your well aware.

True but nonetheless atrocities are occurring there.

But why consider just Syria, what about all the atrocities by all the oppressive gov'ts in Africa also. We have to stop "liberating" other countries while ours liberties and signed away. It's none of our business.

Well first off, Syria was the threads topic. Secondly, I have addressed your question here

reply to post by SLAYER69


I added to my previous post the following...

Slayer, i'm not up to speed on our involvement in other countries, but I would argue that our covert intervention is the problem countries face the world over. We install a dictator and then liberate the people after twenty or so years, Every one we take down, pictures come out of hand shakes with our top politicians decades before.

reply to post by type0civ


Hey...

I appreciate the quick reply.

Slayer, i'm not up to speed on our involvement in other countries, but I would argue that our covert intervention is the problem countries face the world over. We install a dictator and then liberate the people after twenty or so years, Every one we take down, pictures come out of hand shakes with our top politicians decades before.

I don't think too many here would disagree with your reply. I know I don't. However, not all problems lead to Washington. I highly doubt the US is involved with propping up Assad. [Some can argue he is a Russian Puppet] There are plenty of other trouble spots in the world that have very little influence by the US/West.

I asked if we could collectively brainstorm to see if this group of ATS outside the box thinkers could find among ourselves some other solutions instead of the usual Hand wringing and asked why was there more concern with what might happen as opposed to what IS happening in Syria...

Seems fair.

No?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well it has to come from within. such as our struggle to gain independence. However we were supported militarily from others such as France, Spain the Dutch. .And a thorough look at that will show world wide war.

Whether it is true or not, which I personally believe that for the most part it is not, it is still propaganda. The reason for this is because the video is sad and disturbing, designed to move you emotionally and affect your feelings and opinions regarding this country.

Of course anyone who was hell-bent on invading, or simply someone who has never been there, has no clue what is going on, but believes the propaganda, can and will create videos like this to suit their own agendas. It is a HUGE problem that people pass on information that is not true, simply because of the way they "feel" emotionally about something. Nevermind that they have no clue what is actually going on.

I am not saying that this stuff isn't happening there, I just doubt it. We have seen how much of these same tactics for how long? Remember Lybia, which is just one of the times. Do you think Lybia is in a better position now? NO WAY. Anti-Gaddafi propaganda. This is probably the same thing.

I do not understand how so many people can be soooo trusting, given the media's habit of LYING to us. Even our politicians LIE to us to suit their agendas. Have some of you not learned this yet? Just because the news says one thing, and shows an amalgamation of video clips that aren't even from what they are talking about, does not make it true.

The US just needs to pull out of all of these countries...Not go into more. That's why Ron Paul 2012.

Originally posted by type0civ
Every one we take down, pictures come out of hand shakes with our top politicians decades before.

With all due respect, a photo of a handshake 20 years ago with someone you just eliminated from your life really doesn't mean that much.

Times change, people change, "stuff" changes.

I've got a couple of ex wives. I know, I know, that's really not something a guy should collect. It gets expensive after a while. The thing is, I got along real well with them back in the day. otherwise, I probably couldn't have been roped into marrying them. The fact remains, for all that, they are STILL "exes", and I get along best with them now by staying as far away from them as possible.

Times change. people change. A 20 year old diplomatic photo op really doesn't mean all that much.

Originally posted by GodofWar411
this is sickening and angering.... i can't contain it these are crimes against some ones child ,some ones mother, some ones father, some ones grand father.

these are people ....i would hate for the USA to get involved, but this needs to dealt with in some fashion.
i would join the military just to go help these people. THEY ARE DOING THIS TO CHILDREN AMONG OTHER THINGS.....

did early posters even watch the video .......?????????????

if you can't watch the video here is a link to where you can watch it

www.channel4.com...

US allies, and allegedly, the US military have done such things- even against children. You'd just be fighting one evil for another evil.

Come on people this has got propaganda written all over its ground hog day again this time we are in Syria.

There is quite a lot of proof that the CIA and MI6 had a lot to do with Libya if not all of it.
We know MSM is full of BS and is the governments main propaganda machine yes we have a nasty few clips of people been hurt. Do we all agree that this is only heading one way with the final hurdle been Iran if so this is a perfect military move once Syria falls which it will in the next few weeks we then have Iran cornered. Taking out Syria with open up its ports to navel re-enforcements that can arrive from the med sea you also have a MSR to go though Turkey into Syria.

maps.google.co.uk... see for yourself

reply to post by nenothtu


I dont think US foreign relations as compared to your failed marriages is a good one, but yours is probably more dangerous.Ha ha.

My point is, for example, if you look at our relations with Iraq's Saddam H over the years, it has nothing to do with promoting liberty and the American way of life all to do the the infamous military idustrial complex. Money power greed.

Look at our sudden and stance on Libya. Out of nowhere. I remember on 9/11. He was the first to come out and say " IT WASNT ME!!"

Next is syrian and iran.

( i wasnt trying to sound crass in my opening sentence...sorry if it sounds that way.)

Originally posted by type0civ
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I dont think US foreign relations as compared to your failed marriages is a good one, but yours is probably more dangerous.Ha ha.

I don't know about more dangerous (that is certainly debatable in at least one case, though!) but they were quite a bit more treacherous. Those experiences are the very reason I no longer fear the CIA, Mossad, and the men in black who park their SUV with the tinted windows across the street all the time! Those gents ain't got nothing on a ticked-off woman!

My point is, for example, if you look at our relations with Iraq's Saddam H over the years, it has nothing to do with promoting liberty and the American way of life all to do the the infamous military idustrial complex. Money power greed.

I'm not so sure about including the MIC in that. Most of Saddam's weaponry came from the Soviets, and that was during the Cold War when we had more interest in tearing down their military industry than we had in promoting it. The Tabuk assault rifle and the al-Quds LMG were made locally in Iraq, but they were carbon copies of the AKM and RPK respectively, and made on Russian machinery. Remember the SCUDS he was chucking at Israel during the first Gulf War? Russian. T-54 and T-72 tanks? Again, Russian.

My point with the analogy is that people are people, whether in the pubic sector or private citizens, and relations are relations, whether international in scope or just having to duck from flying things at home coming in from work. Over time, both people and relationships change, in both arenas. Miyamoto Mushashi said to learn the large from the small, from one thing know 10,000 things. It's the same thing, just a matter of scale.

Look at our sudden and stance on Libya. Out of nowhere. I remember on 9/11. He was the first to come out and say " IT WASNT ME!!"

Yeah, I'd imagine he was plenty spooked. The US and Libya have had a love hate relationship nearly forever - since at least the 70's, and of course the Gulf of Sidra War Games when we started splashing his MIGs in the Med just because he sent them to shoot our planes down. Then there's the whole Lockerby goat-roping. I'm pretty sure in his mind he was suspect number one, given his history - which is why he was so quick to scream it wsn't him. Probably didn't want another cruise missile coming down his chimney like a deranged Saint Nick.

( i wasnt trying to sound crass in my opening sentence...sorry if it sounds that way.)

Not a problem - I started it, now didn't I? You live, you learn... or, in the case of folks like me, you're untrainable, and get traded in for the sport model fairly often.



[

A pictures worth a thousand words and the photo in this link is what United States foreign policy is all about and what it really means,after its thin veneer of lies and propaganda have been stripped away > www.gwu.edu...

reply to post by blocula


Yup. 30 years ago, the Iranian Hostage crisis was still fresh in American minds. Saddam wasn't losing any love aimed at Iran, either. I suspect he just wanted their oil fields (he had a history of that sort of thing, you know), and conversely Iran wanted the Iraqi oil fields. Having a common adversary was grounds in those days for tenuous entanglements.

As I've pointed out, times change, people change, relationships change. I have a friend that was a POW of the Germans in WWII. They pulled him half-dead out of a snow bank and slapped him into a stalag for the duration. 30 years later, he was back in Germany for a reunion, drinking good German beer with he same two soldiers who captured him, and reminiscing about the old days, happy that they had all survived it. 30 years ago I killed communists for a living, and they did a grand job of trying to kill me, too. Now I sit down with them and try to work out ways for everybody to get along without all the useless killing. Some times, beer is involved in those talks, too.

30 years ago, hair bands were all the rage, and America was desperately trying to shake off the after effects of the disco debacle. 30 years ago, everyone had nukes (LOTS of nukes) pointed at every one else, and was making a lot of noise about how they weren't afraid to use them. 30 years ago, if an American drove a Japanese vehicle, it was considered damn near treason.30 years ago, if you had told me that the Soviet Union was going to collapse in less than 10 years, and that the Berlin Wall would be a footnote in history, or if you had told me there would be a reunified Germany, I would have laughed in your face, and possibly have made a psychiatric appointment for you.

Times change, people change, situations change. Everything is fluid, nothing stays the same. Today's ally may be tomorrow's enemy. Today's enemy may be tomorrow's partner.

It's the way of life, and that photo was from 1983.

reply to post by nenothtu
Didnt the United States sell Saddam the very same weapons that a few years later it turned around and told him he couldnt have any more?,i think so...

As long as he was killing the "right people" with those weapons,the "poor Iranians" we didnt have a thing to say about it,we actually encouraged him and helped him to do it...

But as soon as Saddam started killing people the United States deemed not fashionable to kill at the moment, the "wealthy kuwaitians",the it hits the fan and the United States does another about face and eventually hangs him...Unbelievable...Yet very true...

What if everyone on your street was allowed to own and shoot a gun except you,would you be upset and feel unjustly treated?...I would...What if the mayor of your town sold everyone,including yourself,on your street a gun and then a little while later demanded yours to be returned while everyone else got to keep theirs?...

Thats how the United States operates...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Didnt the United States sell Saddam the very same weapons that a few years later it turned around and told him he couldnt have any more?,i think so...

No.

If you think otherwise, throw some sources on me. Maybe you can get me to reevaluate.

As long as he was killing the "right people" with those weapons,the "poor Iranians" we didnt have a thing to say about it,we actually encouraged him and helped him to do it...

But as soon as Saddam started killing people the United States deemed not fashionable to kill at the moment, the "wealthy kuwaitians",the it hits the fan and the United States does another about face and eventually hangs him...Unbelievable...Yet very true...

Well, yeah! How did you think it was played before you realized that? Not much help when he's killing the "wrong people", is it? As I recall, he found that out the hard way. You don't bite the hand that feeds.

What if everyone on your street was allowed to own and shoot a gun except you,would you be upset and feel unjustly treated?...I would...What if the mayor of your town sold everyone,including yourself,on your street a gun and then a little while later demanded yours to be returned while everyone else got to keep theirs?...

Thats how the United States operates...

I'm down to one gun now already. makes me feel a little naked what with all the neighbors firing up the hood day and night with their giant arsenals. How's a body to get any sleep with all that racket? There ain't no love lost betwixt me and the Mayor here, so it's probably a GOOD thing he's not in the gun-selling business.

Of COURSE that's the way the US operates! It's not very bright to arm your enemies, and generally the order of business is to DISARM them, whether they were former friends or not!

Now, if the Mayor sold me a gun, and wanted me to take some of the crack dealers out, then a little later and out of a clear blue sky I went and shot his dog, his cat, his parakeet, and a couple of cops instead, I'm guessing there would be a push on by the Mayor's office to do something about my raving lunacy, and that something would almost certainly involve disarming me - and possibly dis-legging me, too.

And you're just now realizing this?