Finland Impounds Patriot Missiles, Explosives From China Bound Ship

Finland Impounds Patriot Missiles, Explosives From China Bound Ship

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The Finnish authorities have impounded an Isle of Man-flagged ship bound for China with undeclared missiles and explosives, officials say. Police are questioning the crew of the MS Thor Liberty after what were described as 69 Patriot anti-missile missiles were found aboard. Interior Minister Paivi Rasanen said the missiles were marked “fireworks”.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Wow!

China is kinda funny labeling these "Fireworks"... so where were they headed? They had just came from Germany... Who would have funneled anti-patriot missile missiles through germany?

Any ideas ATS? The plot thickens.. as we edge closer and closer to WWIII...

to be fair.. there COULD have been a mixup.. as stated in the article... but really... what are the chances?

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(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Already posted yesterday I Think..

Link

Originally posted by nawki
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Already posted yesterday I Think..

Link

Thanks!

I believe we can have two threads as long as one is in Breaking Alternative News... and the other one is in General Conspiracies...

They were not bound for China. They were on the way to South Korea. Not the same thing at all, are they? Quit creating hype where there is none. Leave that to the msm.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


Precisely where does this story of "bound for South Korea" come from?

Edit to add:

www.cnn.com...

and with the kind permission of the readers... my previously stated position....

I love how this works....

The ship had no documentation to justify the presence of US Patriot Missiles and Pyric Acid on board.

The ship had these items improperly labeled at any rate.

No one could answer any questions about how they got on board the ship..

The ship's 'destination' is clearly registered and expected at Shanghai.

.....

But CNN reports that "Germany says it's OK" and Finland is supposed to (and will?) simply shrug their shoulders and say "Oh, OK then, it must be legal because this other country 'says' that it is."

Is it really that difficult to accept what this discovery potentially indicates? And is it really that easy to present 'after-the-fact' gestures to make it seem like "there's nothing to see here... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

The "it was bound for South Korea" story is likely to be repeated until it is believed by the talking heads isn't it? Is this how social engineering works? Apparently so.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


You ask what are the chances of this being nothing more sinister than a mix up? Well, I would have thought that the answer to that question lies in understanding the following things:

How big is the port?:
The reason this is important is because the size of the port dictates how many ships can be docked at any time, and since if this WAS a mix up, it is important to know, in terms of probablility, how many ships were there, so that some sort of useful analysis can be peformed.
Lets say this was a small port, which only dealt with specific cargo types, like fuel or grain or something. If missiles were placed aboard a ship at a small dock like that, then that would suggest two things right away. First , the action is likely to be deliberate, because there are less ships at anchor, and therefore less mistaken destinations are possible, and second if the dock is specificaly tasked, like a fuel dock of some sort (like those at oil and gas feilds can some times be) then there is really no way that missiles would EVER be put aboard a ship there, due to the obvious health and saftey issues arising from the close proximity of explosives to an extremely flamable and valueable cargo type. Therefore, likelihood of foul play is much greater.

How many containers were at dockside?:
This is important for the same reason as the size of the port, and the number of ships docked there is important. Without knowing these things, no reasonable calculation can be made. Obviously , the more containers are present at dockside, the more likely it is that serial numbers can be misread, or mis applied to a container. If there were very few containers at dockside, and/or the ship was only due to pick up a few containers at the port in question, then the chances of a mix up are less likely. If there were hundreds of thousands of containers just sitting there waiting to go, then that increases the chance of a mix up, which is why the best efforts possible are made to clearly mark and label containers.
The very fact that dock management software exists as a seperate entity to other databasing software, could reasonably lead one to assume that the simple task of ensuring that the correct container ends up going in the correct ships hold, is not as simple as one might imagine, and mix ups are not as rare as one might be lead to believe, by the stern and practical nature of most men of the sea.

How efficient are the employees of the dock?:
This part links in with what I said at the end of the section above this one. It is basically to do with the reliability of the staff at the dock, because it is they, and not the ships crew, who are responsible for the loading and unloading of cargo, and it is they who are responsible for the monitoring of goods on and off thier docks. Without the staff at the dock, the massive loading cranes would never move, and cargo would sit idle on the docks, not moving at all. So in order to find out how likely a mix up is, one must examine the history of the dock itself and its current employees.

These are just a FEW of the variables that would need to be observed and taken into account before a fair assesment of the likelihood of a mix up could be accurately measured. To be honest, knowing that many docks have millions of containers through them a year, I would not be at all suprised to find mistakes are less rare than we know. It may be that it is only the incredible nature of this PARTICULAR cargo, that made the news, and not the fact that a container was on the wrong ship.

reply to post by TrueBrit


I can answer a lot of the above. It's not a large port but it is highly efficient. Not only that, they work very closely with the Finnish Defence Forces, as do all the ports in Finland. Particularly this one because of the proximity to St Petersburg, which is a hub of illegal activity if ever there was one. Finns are sticklers for the letter of the law, particularly with regards to anything Customs- or tax-related. This is important to remember when looking at this from a potentially criminal attitude. Any experienced crew would know this. Finns give no quarter. They will inspect everything. And friends or not, you will be prosecuted for misconduct. The Finnish point of view is that friends won't try to screw friends. If you do, you will get what you deserve.

The Finnish authorities have already determined that this was a legal sales transaction between Germany and South Korea. But the shipping company, and apparently the company that released them for shipment, neglected to pack them correctly. Nor did they apply for the proper clearances. Why these corners were cut *knowing that the Finns will not look the other way* is beyond me. This is just simply common knowledge in the region and no one with any sense would attempt such a thing with a clear mind.

I just want to reiterate here that "mislabeling" those as "fireworks" and not having them properly contained was stupid on so many levels that it's simply unfathomable. But to detour through any port in Finland and think you'll get away with it is just insane. They would have been much more likely to succeed if they had attempted this in Estonia, because they can be bribed. But not Finns. And Kotka is particularly tight with the Defence Forces. It looks like this was meant to get out rather than an attempt to conceal it.

there is footage of the ship in really heavy swells just off the finnish coast , suffering quite badly in the surf , maybe it was a semi emergency stop to get out of the storm and as such not planned , a ship moving in serious swells with over 150 tons of badly packed , unstable explosive on board?

"A Finnish pilot assisted the Manx-flagged M/S Thor Liberty on December 9, following a request for help during heavy seas."

yle.fi...

reply to post by CosmicEgg


They weren't labelled fireworks. They were labelled "rockets" which is correct. It's the Finnish port authority that made the mistake. Not surprising since fireworks rockets are quite common goods. They are now confiscated because they didn't have a permit to ship arms through Finland.

Rocket is the delivery mechanism. If you add a warhead to your rocket it becomes a missile.
In my understanding these "rockets" had their warheads included. So they are missiles, not rockets.

Also the problem isn't that they filed it wrong. The problem is that by law they should have asked a permission to traffic such weaponry. Even if they would have filed them as patriot missiles, it would still have been illegal.

Germany may have sided with China.


The old Wilhelm Kaiser Society, the Nazi mad scientists is now called the Max Planck Society......and they've got research places in China now.

Germany is mad as hell about Deutsche Bank buying those pre-packaged mortgages in America that are worthless.

Germany is also mad at America in general over WWII and what we did to them.

US Patriot missiles leaving Germany bound for mainland China......I'm not surprised. I would not be surprised if Japan sided with China and North Korea to do a sneak attack on the US either. You do what you have to, to survive.

reply to post by PsykoOps


I'm well aware that they have been confiscated. I had mentioned it several times previously. I also know that they didn't have clearance. They were neither contained nor given appropriate permissions. All military goods must be declared and cleared in advance by the Defence Forces.

I worked in the Defence Section of an embassy in Helsinki doing a great deal of work generally but also specifically this kind of work with both the Finnish Defence Forces and the Estonian Defence Forces for a decade. Surely, PsykoOps, you must know this by now. Why are you contributing nothing but the "misinterpretation" info but making sound like more? Please read more thoroughly!

reply to post by VLPR1


BS. They only required a permit to transport them through Finnish waters. Once the paper work is settled they'll ship them to the owners. Cargo is being loaded into proper containers and is ready to ship within a week. [

reply to post by PsykoOps


You must have permission from the FDF. That requires clearance. I don't know who told you otherwise but that's incorrect.

The info I posted earlier was what was known to the public here. Correcting me hours later and making sound like I made something up is a bit fraudulent on your part, isn't it?

It seems now that this is the situation as it stands:

A ship carrying a mysterious cargo of missiles and explosives ran into serious trouble in a storm in the Finnish Archipelago while en route to the port of Kotka less than two weeks ago. Maritime officials say that the Thor Liberty requested help from a pilot from the remote Finnish island of Utö. The pilot, Kaj Wikberg, guided the vessel into a safe haven off the island of Nötö to wait out the storm for a couple of days. The ship sailed from Germany on December 13. Wikberg says it was clearly a dangerous situation. Without a pilot, the ship would very likely have had an accident, he told YLE. Its crew did not have sea charts of the area, which is notoriously difficult to navigate. At the time, winds were blowing at up to 34 metres per second, and wave height was around nine metres. Cargo loose in the hold? The pilot says he was informed by officials on the mainland that the Thor Liberty was carrying some kind of explosives. He adds he after the ship anchored at Nötö, he saw pictures showing that some of the crates holding the explosives had become dislodged and been tossed around in the hold. Wikberg says the crew should have informed him that there were missiles aboard. "On the other hand, I can certainly understand that since this now seems to have been some kind of suspicious cargo, that that's why the crew did not tell me about it," Wikberg said. The vessel is being kept in Kotka while an investigation into its load of Patriot missiles and other military materiel continues. Its home port is Douglas on the Isle of Man, a self-governing territory under the British Crown. Captain and first mate detained Police have been questioning the captain and first mate of the Thor Liberty as criminal suspects. A number of members of the 32-man Ukrainian crew have been interviewed by police as witnesses. Police plan to question the entire crew during their investigation. Inquires are also going forward with international law enforcement agencies in a effort to resolve the questions surrounding the ship's cargo. The authorities are also trying to determine, in cooperation with the Defence Forces, if the missiles are to be formally classified as military materials or fall into some other category. YLE

So, they had no intention of docking here. They ran into trouble in unfamiliar and difficult waters and they had no maps for it. So why were they up here anyway? Is this a quick route to China?

It went to Kotka to pick up anchor chains as gargo. For heaven sake try to keep up with the news. The only problem is that they didn't use the interwebs to correctly file for arms shipment through our waters.

[Edit to add] Also that article is old. The whole crew has been since been released with only the captain and 1st mate under "no travel" orders. Geez.

reply to post by Maxmars


Precisely here.

And here.

Some say China, some (most) say South Korea. Originally it was South Korea, to my knowledge. I have no idea where China came in but the Gulf of Finland is, to my knowledge again, not a route to either. I may be wrong, but I'm willing to accept that.

reply to post by PsykoOps


It's "cargo", and you have to make those clearance requests in advance, not en route. It helps to have things properly secured too, all the way around. The Germans seem to believe otherwise.

PsykoOps, you came in hours later commenting with new info as though you and the rest of the world knew all along. Had a bad day? Not gonna be a nice xmas for you? Don't bring your hostility here, please. I neither need nor deserve it. Thanks.

I never said they were trying to make those declariations enroute. Also I'm only correcting the blatant disinfo. Excuse me for ruining your day with that.

reply to post by PsykoOps


Disinfo is not at all what is happening when information is being released to the press. Disinfo is a deliberately transmitted information meant to mislead and deceive. This is breaking news. It develops. That's how everything works. Nothing is ready packaged with all information neatly displayed.

Please don't bring attitude like that here. It's really not wanted. And it would take a lot more than the likes of you to ruin my day.