The Santa Myth: Should we perpetuate the lie to children?

Originally posted by FlySolo

Now, I have never had the pleasure of raising kids, but I'm sure I would never endorse the Santa . For one, while it may seem like a fun white lie at first, I can clearly see the conundrum to follow with re-enforced lies to perpetuate the originating lie. It doesn't sit right with me.

Christmas is a happy, magical time for most children. I don't care if harmlessly lying is the price for this bit of magic, do you think your kids would hold it against you when they're grown up because you lied that Santa existed?

You can choose to be politically correct with your own kids if you like (when/if you ever have them) but for their sake I recommend you keep it magical for them.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

We tell children that Santa Clause is real. That's a lie.

The spirit of Santa Claus and Christmas is real. The reason why my kids have presents for Christmas is real. The values that can and should be taught during the holiday season are real. The only lie about it is that I don't have a beard, white hair, or a belly that jiggles like a bowl full of jelly. I'm also not overly fond of red jumpsuits.

Also what parent never lies to their children about anything, ever? There are some truths that children aren't mature enough to handle, nor should they be expected to. Only telling your children the complete truth about everything may sound good, but in practice can cause more harm than a few white lies and partial truths. Using a myth to teach values isn't inherently wrong just because you label it a lie.

Originally posted by morefiber
But if you NEVER lie to your children then they will think everyone tells the truth, and be bad at telling when people are lying.

So how do you teach them that there are bad people in the world who could hurt them? By hurting them? Your post makes NO sense.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic





I can't recall ever, and i do not know of anyone who has ever read to their children a 'Fairy

Tale' who preceded the story by saying " I'm going to read you this story but,it's not true it's

a lie."

We go along with these fables, these fabrications, e.g.( kissing the frog who becomes a

prince and the sleeping beauty awakened by a princes's kiss etc. etc.) knowing that as

they grow and learn they will THEMSELVES sort out FACT from FICTION.

As far as lying goes, every parents needs to lie to their kids sometimes. Example, my little girl is weak at maths but do I tell her that? No I friggin don't, I tell her she's really clever and she can do anything she wants to, I do this to install confidence. So, anyone who says kids shouldn't be lied to in any circumstances is talking bullcrap.

Why doesn't anyone believe in Zeus or Posiedon anymore, yet they honor Moloch and Bacchus?

For those who don't want their kids believing in Santa, please go tell our "leaders" who attend Bohemian Grove that Moloch doesn't exist either.

Originally posted by Jenna
The spirit of Santa Claus and Christmas is real.

I'm not talking about the "Spirit of Giving" or a "Fairy Tale" about a man named Santa. I'm talking about telling kids that there's a man... A REAL man, who flies around in a sleigh delivering presents on Christmas. THAT is what we're talking about here. The Santa Myth. Not some "joy of giving" or holiday spirit. All that stuff is fine. I'm talking about the LIE that Santa is real and can fly around the world, delivering presents to children.

Also what parent never lies to their children about anything, ever? There are some truths that children aren't mature enough to handle, nor should they be expected to.

Then don't tell them. But I can't imagine ONE scenario where I would feel more comfortable lying to my child than telling the truth, IN A WAY that he could deal with.

Can you provide an example where you HAVE to lie to your child or else scar them permanently?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Can you provide an example where you HAVE to lie to your child or else scar them permanently?

There's an example in my previous post to yours above. If I told my Daughter she was rubbish at maths that's something she may remembers for the rest of her life, if she ever faces a situation where maths was required her confidence would already be low making it a lot harder for her to face the problem. That's called being mentally scarred.

Originally posted by eletheia
I can't recall ever, and i do not know of anyone who has ever read to their children a 'Fairy Tale' who preceded the story by saying " I'm going to read you this story but,it's not true it's a lie."

I'm not surprised you took the argument to the extreme. Seems a favorite tactic of yours... No, my parents never PRECEDED a fairy tale by saying "This is a lie". But when I got scared, they told me not to worry, because it's not real, it's just a story. When I asked if Billy Goats Gruff was real, they assured me that it was only "pretend" and there was nothing to be afraid of...

When I asked about Santa, they lied.

reply to post by FlySolo


The lie that was told to children for years was sold out , santa was a beleivable character before we started to expect too much.

But , there is a way we could create a "santa" (Sh*%.A .Nitted.Top.Again) , a charity which gives 1 present per year to every child on the planet .... funded by the governments of the world with taxes taken from the highest earners ....including bankers.That way , we wouldnt need to dissapoint children by delivering that killer blow , and our generations will have done something useful for once instead of just arguing about what sh1te you watched on tv last night.

I miss Santa :[

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
If I told my Daughter she was rubbish at maths that's something she may remembers for the rest of her life, if she ever faces a situation where maths was required her confidence would already be low making it a lot harder for her to face the problem. That's called being mentally scarred.

Aren't you smart enough to figure out a way to let her know that she has room for improvement without telling her that she's "rubbish"??? Don't you have enough imagination to word it so that she feels motivated to improve her skills?

You can still tell her that she's clever and can do anything she sets her mind to. You can still instill confidence without crushing her with a ridiculous statement like, "You're rubbish at math". Jesus! It's called parenting skills.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

When I asked about Santa, they lied.

Are you saying that you resent that your parents lied to you about Santa being real? If so then no disrespect but that's hilarious and you have issues.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
You can still tell her that she's clever and can do anything she sets her mind to. You can still instill confidence without crushing her with a ridiculous statement like, "You're rubbish at math". Jesus! It's called parenting skills.

Right, so you're saying it's not okay to lie but it's okay to dress the truth up in cotton wool?

Originally posted by alexagendajones
anyone who perpetuates and lies to children have blasphemed the holy spirit

No wonder 80% of people killed on earth are over religious hate,you and your statement are just more proof of why.

Another sad person.

reply to post by FlySolo
Judgeing by what I have read in your post, Santa wasnt very nice to you when your were a kid.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Then don't tell them. But I can't imagine ONE scenario where I would feel more comfortable lying to my child than telling the truth, IN A WAY that he could deal with.

Can you provide an example where you HAVE to lie to your child or else scar them permanently?

Sure.

If my child walks in the room while I'm watching a violent section of a movie before I can pause it or turn it off, I'm not going to tell him that people really can be beheaded or that they can end up with gaping holes in their heads from being shot. I tell them it's not real, it's just a movie, and fail to mention that it can happen in real life though I usually toss in some gun safety and reiterate my 'we don't point guns at people, not even toy guns' spiel. A half-truth, also known as a lie, that prevents them from being scared by it.

When I was pregnant with my youngest, I didn't tell my oldest (who was five at the time) how babies are made and how his brother was going to get out of my belly when he asked because he wasn't mature enough for it. I skirted the edges of truth and told him that mommy and daddy decided to have a baby and that the doctor would take his brother out when he was ready to be born. (Ended up being true since I had a c-section, but that's irrelevant. At the time I thought I was lying. )

A parent going through a painful divorce shouldn't tell their child that mommy and daddy aren't together anymore because daddy beat mommy half to death or because mommy was sleeping with half the town. A simplified 'sometimes parents just can't get along and are better not living together anymore' will suffice. Depending on their age, they aren't capable of processing a harsh truth like that and are better off not knowing. And even if they are old enough to process the information, they still probably shouldn't be told.

There are many reasons why parents do, and sometimes should, lie to their children. Not all of them are to prevent scarring them for life, some are just to let them have some fun. If withholding the fact that Santa is actually me and their father brings them joy, I'm not going to take it from them before they're ready to give it up I'll just make sure they learn a few things along the way.

Let the kids be kids! I love seeing the look on my boys faces when they see Santa. This is ATS, where people write threads claiming to be an Alien or seeing the future. And there are people who believe that stuff! A little bit of fantasy never hurt anyone. I grew up believing in Santa and I turned out ok.

I'm on the fence about this.

When I was little my parents were talking about when I would figure out that Santa isn't real. I heard them talking and in my baby voice asked what they just said. As you say, they had to create a new lie, to further the other lie. And then again you spend at minimum, 5 years of your child's life reinforcing a lie, when you tell them it's bad to lie.

However I think the mad rush for the holidays where families spend multiple hundreds of gifts they won't even use is a bit ridiculous. I'm all for the gifts, but a little restriction is necessary. When your kids are little, you buy them multiple multiple gifts, many of which they will enjoy for a week, then throw in the trash (little kids are notorious for this,) so instead of buying 5 gifts, buy one or two, and spend the rest of the money on charities.

Christmas has become highly corporationized (not even a word but you should get what I mean,) that sometimes it's a little hard to see the real value, spending time with your family.

Seriously, in the future, Santa will be blue and white, not red and white.

The red is from Saint George and the crusades.

Even when Blue Santa shows up, his bag of toys will be just as full as ever, and the gingerbread just as tasty.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic




I never mentioned 'your' parents per se. I mentioned parents in general.

However in your reply to Hawkwind it appears that it is not the telling of the lie you object to

as much as the manner of how the lie is dressed up.