Haunting portraits show Marines Before, During and After service in Afghanistan; (very telling)

Originally posted by TXRabbit
You guys think what you will of the military. Some people see them as heroes. Others see them as simple tools of an unjustified apparatus designed to enforce oppressive actions in response to invisible enemies for purposes of economic positioning and wealth.

meh....


in other words....

edit on 23-12-2011 by TXRabbit because: (no reason given)

Oh come on now! Those photos are of Dutch soldiers who have zero business being in Afghanistan.

The images show nothing other a couple of guys with sleep deprivation, different lighting conditions and stubble.

The rest of the garbage is all in the head of the viewer.

Love'em or hate'em, an ordinary fighting Taliban has more grit than the moisterised faced Dutch invaders.

PS I agree with you but I looking to shoehorn in my dime's worth

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I'm not sure where those that are saying that these pictures dont show anything are coming from. Its all in the eyes.

Try focusing on the pics, but ignoring everything about the photos except the eyes. The difference is undeniable. As has already been stated, these are great examples of the thousand yard stare.

I can generally pic out a marine without doing anything but looking in their eyes. Even basic changes people.

Your eyes change based on facial expression and mood. Again, anyone can take pictures of themselves and have the same results.

That's not to say these soldiers are not traumatised, but that these images are worthless.

As someone with a decent amount of modelling and acting experience, I am quite aware of changes in facial expressions, lighting, hell, even the ability to portray emotion through the eyes (an actors best tool). I feel that these pictures sow something different.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I'm not sure where those that are saying that these pictures dont show anything are coming from. Its all in the eyes.

Try focusing on the pics, but ignoring everything about the photos except the eyes. The difference is undeniable. As has already been stated, these are great examples of the thousand yard stare.

I can generally pic out a marine without doing anything but looking in their eyes. Even basic changes people.

Your eyes change based on facial expression and mood. Again, anyone can take pictures of themselves and have the same results.

That's not to say these soldiers are not traumatised, but that these images are worthless.

As someone with a decent amount of modelling and acting experience, I am quite aware of changes in facial expressions, lighting, hell, even the ability to portray emotion through the eyes (an actors best tool). I feel that these pictures sow something different.

You are a model too? Snap! I tend to use my fringe to cast a shadow over my eyes for that sunken eyes look and to make me look deep. I call it the Titanium© look. There is also the lower eyelids squint, à la Clint Eastwood, for that thousand yard stare.

Originally posted by Helixer

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by JessopJessopJessop

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I'm not sure where those that are saying that these pictures dont show anything are coming from. Its all in the eyes.

Try focusing on the pics, but ignoring everything about the photos except the eyes. The difference is undeniable. As has already been stated, these are great examples of the thousand yard stare.

I can generally pic out a marine without doing anything but looking in their eyes. Even basic changes people.

Your eyes change based on facial expression and mood. Again, anyone can take pictures of themselves and have the same results.

That's not to say these soldiers are not traumatised, but that these images are worthless.

As someone with a decent amount of modelling and acting experience, I am quite aware of changes in facial expressions, lighting, hell, even the ability to portray emotion through the eyes (an actors best tool). I feel that these pictures sow something different.

You are a model too? Snap! I tend to use my fringe to cast a shadow over my eyes for that sunken look and to make me look deep. I call it the Titanium© look. There is also the lower eyelids squint, à la Clint Eastwood, for that thousand yard stare.

hardy har har. Not trying to prove anything, simply brought it up to give reference to the fact that I am not naive on the subject.

Its funny that you find it to be your job on the internet to try and call someone out on something you know nothing about.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Just funning dude.

And I do know about photography since before digital cameras.

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


I have been a lurker on ATS for a while, but this topic, and specifically your posts, finally pushed me to create an account.

I was 20 years old in 2002 when I decided to join the Marine Corps. My MOS was 0311 rifleman. Fast forward to December 2004. Operation Phantom Fury, Fallujah, Iraq. 3rd Battallion 1st Marines Bravo Company. My team was tasked with clearing out building after building and eliminating any opposition we came across. I will spare you the details, but I relive them every night in my sleep. They play over and over like a movie. Every sound, every smell, every sight. After I got out I would try to numb the problems by turning to alcohol. It would help for a while, but there's no getting away once the human psyche is shattered. I suffer from PTSD, and I have what you call the "thousand yard stare." Eyes void of any emotion, any soul, any feeling, because of everything I did and saw. You can go ahead and say this is propaganda, but take it from someone who's been there and done that. You can always tell by the eyes. What they say about them being the window to the soul is true. I always say that I left my soul in Iraq in 2004 and haven't seen it since. It's true for the most part. I don't really have any emotions anymore besides anger and fear. I can't be in a public place for too long without being nervous. I can't go out to eat with my girlfriend unless my back is against a wall and I have a visual on every entrance/exit of the building. In fact I find it hard to have a loving relationship with anyone at all. I like to spend most of my time alone. I feel hopeless trying to explain things to a civilian because there's no way they could ever understand. Do you know what something like that feels like? War takes everyone's life even if your body is still physically here.

The eyes of the men in these pictures haunt me when I look at them. I can feel everything in their eyes. This isn't propaganda, this is reality. More horrors are going on in the middle east every day, than you could EVER possibly imagine. I've seen things that I'll never speak of to another human being. Things you can't understand unless you go through it. It's easy to sit behind a computer and judge things based on your own biased opinion, but personally I think you should cut the hippie "propaganda" crap and take the article for what it's worth. I personally think the photographer did a beautiful job capturing the essence of a damaged mind/soul. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Originally posted by supine

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx

Originally posted by AngryAlien
I think this is bogus. We can't make any judgements off of 3 photos. Did she take more than one picture of each man, before, during, and after? Of just 1 picture of each? How hard would it be to take the worst of the pictures you took, and compare them side by side; then you can say "look at the change, it's horrible".

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see a drastic change in most of these people...

exactly.

its like in the weight loss commercials with the before and after pictures.. in the before pictures the person is fat but frowning and the lighting is bad and they just look bad in general but in the after their make up is all done up nice and theyre smiling widely. even if they were still fat you'd see the difference.

Have you ever suffered from PTSD? I do. I sleep maybe 2-4 hours in a 24 hour period. I have to be constantly moving to relieve panic attacks. I am 55 years old and wear a size 16 girls clothing, and the last bout the re activated my PTSD wasn't that long ago, and I was wearin a woman's size 4 to 6.

This is insidious, it takes some months for it to show prevelancy if not years, once it's kicked in again.

Please don't make a judgement call unless you understand this.

Edit to add:

You obviously have no clue, and no idea what triggers are. You can be anywhere and smell something that will bring you back into a PTSD episode. Hear a sound, a baby crying, anything....it's awful, and these people need your compassion as to triggers that can never be cured or just "gotten over."

edit on 22-12-2011 by supine because: (no reason given)

funny you should ask. yes actually i do suffer from PTSD and GAD with panic attacks. my life has been horrible for a long time now due to these, sometimes i feel like im going to die from the insane helplessness i feel and i hate that i no longer find any interest in interacting with humans. but all of it is besides the point.

im not saying anything about propaganda or anything i'm simply saying pictures arent a very reliable source for insight into the way these soldiers were affected by war. there are too many factors to consider like facial expression, how much time has passed between pictures, lighting, their general mood at the moment etc...

im not against them in any way, just saying you're going to see the emotion and feeling that you want to see in these men's eyes depending on your own experience and knowledge of what they've been through but in general its not a very reliable way to judge how they were affected. for all we know some of them are completely happy and fine and just posed serious faced for the pictures and youre taking some deep meaning out of it.

nothing wrong with any of it, just my opinion.

My mistake blackoctober, I thought you were the one who said it's propaganda but it was someone else. I stand corrected.

I am a Vietnam vet and know a number of vets with PTSD.

The first one was my father who was a sniper with the 2d Armored div 41 Armored inf in north Africa, Sicily france. and Germany where he was wounded.

He never talked about his service in WW2 till after i came back from Vietnam.

Something i have also seen with PTSD veterans is that some miss the "combat high"(adrenaline rush) and because of that some go into a form of depression.
For some that spent a lot of time in combat the "combat high" was constant to the point it changes the neurological chemistry to the point there dopamine levels are as high as someone on on drugs and after they leave combat its like going into withdraw.
This type PTSD is a lot harder to spot. In vietnam it was seen in the service men that volunteered to go back to Vietman time after time or extended there time in country till the military forced them to come back to the world..
after they get out you see a number of suicides or crazy "accidents" in these as they can not cope without the rush.

Over the years i served on a number of volunteer fire department and noticed a higher then normal number of veterans that become vol firefighters just so they can get that high back once in a while.
I was a vol firefighter/EMT and trained to watch for PTSD in the people i worked with.
For the last 15 years PTSD training has been part of the training for EMTs in the US

reply to post by ANNED

after they get out you see a number of suicides or crazy "accidents" in these as they can not cope without the rush.

That explains a lot.

reply to post by ANNED


Again, glad I checked back on my old thread. I appreciate the aspect of Combat High that you have brought up.

I think this is where the Gov't doctors etc need to focus the rehab. How, I don't know. I did see a story last week about some new chemical/drug they are considering trying on troops about to leave the service etc.

I have to say that after seeing my brothers son over the holiday... about 4 months out of the service... he's different. two tours in Iraq-but limited combat. I think they must have been on the Hight and Low rollercoaster over there-the whole time they were there.

But again, I do think that each was brings somoe new type of issue that gets mixed in with the old known issues and with that... they will be hard pressed to find a "general cureall" for PTSD and the alike.

I got to thinking of the different type of fear that must have been experienced by our troops in different wars.

WWI: Chemical Warfare and Massive Artillery bombardments while just sitting in the trench on a front line.

WWII: TANKS and Aircraft (Bombers and Fighers).

Korea: Massive amounts of Chinese troops helping out the North (google Pork Chop Hill).

Vietnam: Tunnels, Bootytraps and ambushes like never before.

So, what does the new Terrorism wars bring to the soldiers minds....?