Haunting portraits show Marines Before, During and After service in Afghanistan; (very telling)

combat changes people in a way that I wish no one ever had to experience. it's traumatic, shocking, and numbing all at the same time. I only wish there were a silver bullet that could make you forget.

Originally posted by TXRabbit
Just remember - they're over there defending YOUR right to take their pictures and post them on an internet site.

You should be thanking them!

Quite beyond me how anyone can make such a statement. It is past all reasoned thought.

Originally posted by TXRabbit
Just remember - they're over there defending YOUR right to take their pictures and post them on an internet site.

You should be thanking them!

Over there killing innocent people to defend...what?

If they're in Iraq they're not defending anything, they're killing people. Stop making it seem like we've been under attack since 2003.

We are invading, occupying and killing for oil. If you think otherwise you're not paying attention

I just met a native American Navajo that got home very recently here in Arizona.

Hate to say it, but this guy may never be able to hold a job, ever again. His girlfriend was applying for a job at the domestic violence program in which I reside.

I have been diagnosed with PTSD for what I have gone through, and this guy suffers from the same thing.

This so called war on terror has ruined a lot of lives, of which we have only seen the tip of the iceberg.

Be respectful to these people, please, who volunteerd to earn a paycheck because they believed.......

Originally posted by AngryAlien
I think this is bogus. We can't make any judgements off of 3 photos. Did she take more than one picture of each man, before, during, and after? Of just 1 picture of each? How hard would it be to take the worst of the pictures you took, and compare them side by side; then you can say "look at the change, it's horrible".

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see a drastic change in most of these people...

exactly.

its like in the weight loss commercials with the before and after pictures.. in the before pictures the person is fat but frowning and the lighting is bad and they just look bad in general but in the after their make up is all done up nice and theyre smiling widely. even if they were still fat you'd see the difference.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx

Originally posted by AngryAlien
I think this is bogus. We can't make any judgements off of 3 photos. Did she take more than one picture of each man, before, during, and after? Of just 1 picture of each? How hard would it be to take the worst of the pictures you took, and compare them side by side; then you can say "look at the change, it's horrible".

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see a drastic change in most of these people...

exactly.

its like in the weight loss commercials with the before and after pictures.. in the before pictures the person is fat but frowning and the lighting is bad and they just look bad in general but in the after their make up is all done up nice and theyre smiling widely. even if they were still fat you'd see the difference.

Have you ever suffered from PTSD? I do. I sleep maybe 2-4 hours in a 24 hour period. I have to be constantly moving to relieve panic attacks. I am 55 years old and wear a size 16 girls clothing, and the last bout the re activated my PTSD wasn't that long ago, and I was wearin a woman's size 4 to 6.

This is insidious, it takes some months for it to show prevelancy if not years, once it's kicked in again.

Please don't make a judgement call unless you understand this.

Edit to add:

You obviously have no clue, and no idea what triggers are. You can be anywhere and smell something that will bring you back into a PTSD episode. Hear a sound, a baby crying, anything....it's awful, and these people need your compassion as to triggers that can never be cured or just "gotten over."

This is sad...what I see are eyes that have seen too much.

These wars must end.

I visited the link and looked at the pictures, and I can't say that I see a big difference in them, except in the after pictures they are frowning. This seems like anti-war propaganda to me. I am not pro-war BTW, I just see this as an anti-war propaganda message.

One of the most haunting pictures I've ever seen was of a recipient of the Knight's Cross In WWII.

I can't remember if he was an SS troop or regular Wehrmacht, but he won the award by being the sole survivor of his unit, holding out on his own for some two weeks after his unit was surrounded and overrun by the Russians during the Winter Offensive the first year.

He'd had been awake for most of the time, scrounging food and ammo from corpses in between battles. He'd knocked out a couple of tanks, a few hundred soldiers, and several mgs, fighting from position to position. Truly a remarkable single-handed battle.

I can't imagine what went through his mind and spirit during those lonely dangerous days and nights. He was rescued when another German unit retook the position; they were utterly amazed to find him alive.

He was an enemy, but you have to give credit and respect where it's due.

The official photograph of him wearing the award was gripping: the "thousand yard stare" simply burned holes in your soul even after all these years, hard emptiness yet filled wells of pain and anguish, reflecting a spirit scarred beyond repair. I really don't want to imagine what it might have been like meeting those eyes in the flesh.

I've often thought of him when recalling my own war experiences, thankful that I never shared that depth of harrowing.

Bad enough I have my own memorystones.

Memorystones are like kidneystones, except a lot more painful and harder to pass.

Some 1st person shooter games now are made so you can tell which players are veterans in it by their "hardened" faces.

War sucks the life energy out of them very quickly. The big question is, where does this energy go?

reply to post by NuclearPaul


I think the energy....as you put it (and I like) doesn't go anywhere.

It's gets turned to bad energy.... or as some may say...

The loss of innocence.

Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by JessopJessopJessop

 

Not even different facial expressions, some people aren't even looking at the camera

I think that is one of the points she is trying ot make with this presentation. I wouldn't call it a study-per se. Not scientic but still telling and chilling.

It funny you, and others are so cavalier about the topic. You haven't been in war. I work with people who served in combat and they saw the story. Mixed feelings but mostly "I can see that" type of thing. Why, I assume there are so many different types of minds/make-ups that a certain group will be more or less than another group. Most likely a smaller number.

It this happened on a large scale, there would be a lost less wars going on-IMO. .

I'm not cavalier, I'm jut saying these images are nothing, because anyone can take images to make this case.

You could take a picture of me smiling and looking dead on the inside depending on any number of variables in a 5 minute period. I haven't been in war, I'm not scarred. I'm sure these soldiers have seen horrors, but these images aren't a representation of it. At least not objectively. At best it's art. It's certainly not a legit documentation of anything kind

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I'm not sure where those that are saying that these pictures dont show anything are coming from. Its all in the eyes.

Try focusing on the pics, but ignoring everything about the photos except the eyes. The difference is undeniable. As has already been stated, these are great examples of the thousand yard stare.

I can generally pic out a marine without doing anything but looking in their eyes. Even basic changes people.

Your eyes change based on facial expression and mood. Again, anyone can take pictures of themselves and have the same results.

That's not to say these soldiers are not traumatised, but that these images are worthless.

Originally posted by supine

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx

Originally posted by AngryAlien
I think this is bogus. We can't make any judgements off of 3 photos. Did she take more than one picture of each man, before, during, and after? Of just 1 picture of each? How hard would it be to take the worst of the pictures you took, and compare them side by side; then you can say "look at the change, it's horrible".

I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see a drastic change in most of these people...

exactly.

its like in the weight loss commercials with the before and after pictures.. in the before pictures the person is fat but frowning and the lighting is bad and they just look bad in general but in the after their make up is all done up nice and theyre smiling widely. even if they were still fat you'd see the difference.

Have you ever suffered from PTSD? I do. I sleep maybe 2-4 hours in a 24 hour period. I have to be constantly moving to relieve panic attacks. I am 55 years old and wear a size 16 girls clothing, and the last bout the re activated my PTSD wasn't that long ago, and I was wearin a woman's size 4 to 6.

This is insidious, it takes some months for it to show prevelancy if not years, once it's kicked in again.

Please don't make a judgement call unless you understand this.

Edit to add:

You obviously have no clue, and no idea what triggers are. You can be anywhere and smell something that will bring you back into a PTSD episode. Hear a sound, a baby crying, anything....it's awful, and these people need your compassion as to triggers that can never be cured or just "gotten over."

edit on 22-12-2011 by supine because: (no reason given)

Is illiteracy a symptom of PTSD? Because you didn't understand a word he said. Stop being so aggressive, read what people are saying and understand that nobody is down playing or brushing off the horrors of war and PTSD.

All people are saying is DESPITE the mental scarring on many scarring, despite the horrors of war, these few photographs are not objective and are therefore waste.

Originally posted by WhoDat09
I visited the link and looked at the pictures, and I can't say that I see a big difference in them, except in the after pictures they are frowning. This seems like anti-war propaganda to me. I am not pro-war BTW, I just see this as an anti-war propaganda message.

Thank you. Sensible reply.

All I see is a projection of the expectations of posters into their interpretations of the photographs.

The most disturbing thing about being a combat vet with PTSD is that you think what you are feeling will just go away when you leave and go home... You get home and feel like everyone and everything is much different.. You down play where you have been and what you have witnessed, been a part of and how you have been affected by it all... You can't sleep waking up and wondering where the hell you are and why you are soaked with sweat.and go sit and chain smoke until you decide to try to go back to sleep or stay awake, just as your father would do when he awoke while making noises that sounded like muffled screams...... After many years of many different jobs and many different women one of them will tell you about how restlessly you sleep and the weird noises or screams that were coming from you.... Anger is your motivation and depression is your torment that brings on the need to be angry and aggressive until you find that you are in no kind of shape to even get outside of your house or interact with anyone....... You still don't acknowledge that what you experienced many years before had anything to do with what was going on, after all it was everything else that changed so you direct your anger at anyone or any situation that you can justify as being the cause and end up alienating everyone you come into contact with.... You self medicate with the substance of your choice sometimes using more than one type at the same time every minute of the time you are awake which can be days at a time even though you aren't using stimulants... One day someone will say something about the war and a bell goes off in your head....You see counselors at schools or churches and they don't want to talk to you about anything related to war so you finally are faced with having to go to the VA where you are immediately prescribed medication that makes everything become more difficult except maybe sleeping but when awake you are still very tired... You end up having to be seen a couple of times a week by a psychologist and (or) psychologist, maybe even sent into a day hospital program for group therapy so you have to work at night (delivering newspapers) or not working at all... While this is happening you have been told you need to file a claim for disability which you will be denied after all of the wounds to your psyche have been reopened and you have had to relive all of the pain and humiliation that you have been through by the process..... After you have lost all you have ever worked for and people you had been close to have written you off thinking you are scamming because they never thought you had been through what you had because you never said anything about it..... After years of dealing with everything the VA throws your way you have enough paper work to more than substantiate your claim and they rate you at something like 20% which means you can afford cigarettes but they have admitted you do have combat related PTSD but the process has caused you to be in worse shape mentally than you had when you came to them.. You request a dispute hearing at a VA regional office and show up with your briefcase full of records and answer questions you have answered many times before and soon are awarded a rating of 100% which means you no longer have to worry about making a living unless you happen to have a substance abuse problem... They will figure a way to screw you out of thousands of dollars that you are owed in back money from when you opened your case and prevent you from appealing by adding the words "Total and Permanently disabled" to your rating... It would be a lot better if you could be able to function since there is nothing wrong with a person with a total and permanent rating for PTSD from working... I know of some that can work and do but they had been able to afford to hire a forensic psychiatrist to write a letter for them and also happen to belong to a certain fraternal organization that has a way of getting favoritism from or for other members... It seems to me that a person with severe PTSD wouldn't do well as a member of anything..... A Naval doctor at 3rd Med in Quang Tri I saw after being medevaced in 1969 for pain and numbness in my legs asked me if I knew I was crazy and I laughed at him and said "no more than anyone else I've seen in awhile.. He then asked how long I had been in the bush after looking at me for awhile as I was sitting on a bench... I told him 11 months and he began cussing and referred to the Marine Corps as "sorry bastards" for having me stay out there that long... He told me I was going to be F****ed up for the rest of my life and I wasn't going back out..... He had me placed on light duty for the remainder of my time in the Corps. He could tell from across a room how messed up I was 25 years before I was able to have the VA quit making me jump through hoops and acknowledge my condition...I can see it in the faces of guys I see at the VA and anywhere else I see them.

reply to post by CharonIncarnate


What right reasons?

The war in Afghanistan was one of the biggest jokes ever perpetuated upon fighting forces around the world. They were there to protect opium fields, not root out the cause of terrorism.

Why is it that some still insist that fighting in a war makes you brave and all that crap?

The "horrors of war" are, in part, a modern invention shaped by prevailing moral sentiment and imprinted upon the minds of soldier and civilian through film and literature. That is not to say it makes the trauma any less real. But just like the pubescent who has been taught that masturbation is a sin, the doubting Christian reading the blasphemy of Nietzsche for the first time, or the wife indulging in the sexual thrill of forbidden adultery, those who have been made to believe that killing is the about the most evil thing one can do next to, say, worshiping the devil, are going to be overcome with feelings of horror and guilt. You'll search in vain through the writings of history to find anything like it - one compare with the heroic life of the ancient Greeks, Caesar's Gallic campaigns, the lust for battle of the Teutons, or the Bushido philosophy of medieval Japan.

War is bad - or good - only in the minds of men.

You guys think what you will of the military. Some people see them as heroes. Others see them as simple tools of an unjustified apparatus designed to enforce oppressive actions in response to invisible enemies for purposes of economic positioning and wealth.

meh....


in other words....

reply to post by TXRabbit


Well, that about sums it up.....

Sgt. Hulka: a.k.a. "Big Toe".

Love it.