The Star of Bethlehem. Myth, Legend or Scientific Fact ? A Must Read For All !

I find this story not only a great scientific fact but I also find the timing of me finding
it a joy in my heart for these troubled times we live in. So many people think that science
can and will disprove The Bible. The fact is quite the oppisite. Most if not all basic and
fundamental science facts are in The Bible. The fact also is that The Bible doesn't disagree
with science unless science tries to disallow for God.

I want to be clear from the outset, this story is not a story of religion or a call if you
will, to the people who read it to "be saved" and become religious nor is it meant to
condem. The truth is , it's a story that not only proves that science has this one right but
God also had it right before science caught up.

Was the Star of Bethlehem a real astronomical event?
A myth created by the early church?
Explore the history and science for yourself...

Lets first look at what some of the experts have to say about the story. Look at their credentials if you will below.

"This explanation of the Star is compelling"...
NASA's Chief Engineer for the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station, Director of
the Columbia Shuttle Accident Task Force"

"a convincing case...a mystery solved"
Former Director, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center

"well-researched and reasonable"
Former Chief of Planetary Astronomy, NASA, and Technical Editor, Sky & Telescope magazine

"wide-ranging and insightful scholarship"
Former Publisher and Editor, Scientific American magazine, and President, American
Association for the Advancement of Science

"models the scientific method at its best"
Distinguished Professor of Old Testament Studies, Dallas Theological Seminary

Now let's take a look at the link below and see why this is so important. This is a four
part story and I am referencing the Part 2 of the story. Feel free to read part 1,3 and 4 if
you wish..
This is the link to the story

www.bethlehemstar.net...

The opening image is available and to be credited to the link below on page #3

photobucket.com...#!cpZZ3QQtppZZ16

Star of Bethlehem= shiny bright object in the sky, know to have controlled left & right movements, with the ability to sit still (hover) over a house......

Spaceship

reply to post by CherubBaby


Hey, thanks a bunch for that post...... I always wondered how God pulled that off.


I can not wait till' the knuckle headed peanut gallery pipes in on the matter.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I can appreciate your personal beliefs. In this case however spaceships are not the explaination. The story is clear on this and so is the quote below. But thanks for the effort

SOMETHING IN THE "NORMAL" NIGHT SKY which was startling when explained. That is the hypothesis for the Star we developed in Setting the Stage. Our process of elimination has knocked out meteors, comets and novae as candidates. That leaves planets.

reply to post by CherubBaby

The fact also is that The Bible doesn't disagree with science unless science tries to disallow for God.

This is a profound sentence. The reason for this is something that I think should be obvious to anyone. Consciousness is responsible for collapsing the indeterminate wave of possibility. We live in a dimensional world. Our three dimensional matter is animated by the process of collapsing wave function. Apart from an observer, states of matter are not changed. Why? The observer moves the third dimensional matter by collapsing a choice form a yet to be determined outcome from the fifth dimension. By doing this, the fourth dimension is altered by the collapsed wave. Matter is moved by the consciousness that made the choice. Purpose can be seen as the choice to change the states of matter to produce design in matter.

Why is this important to your genius statement above?

By disallowing God, we make the case for matter originating consciousness. This is what is referred to as disbelief and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy is denying spirit. Spirit is consciousness. Consciousness is information. A 75 foot oak tree is enfolded into the acorn by information. What comes first? Does the information come before the form it creates or does the form proceed and create the information?

The answer is obvious. Nothing is observed apart from the one collapsing the wave. What is the wave? What is matter? The wave is a word of information that animates energy. Matter is energy (Light) in motion. Light is both a particle and a wave. The observer determines the state of light. See this in the trinity. Father (Light), Son (Word) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). Man is light, both particle and wave, animated by consciousness. We are the trinity in an image. Genesis 1:27

The Wave:

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

I find it ironic that God always provides the correct metaphor for every occasion. The Star shows the way to the light of God on man. God, in the form of a baby, delivers the Holy Spirit to mankind from the light. Consciousness is upgraded.

reply to post by CherubBaby

The Star of Bethleham means..."The Sun of the Dwelling Place of Life".

It is a reference to our sun, the source of light above the pyramid.

Star means sun.
Bethleham means the house of bread.
House means dwelling place.
Bread means life.

The sun of the dwelling place of life.

I enjoyed that read, thank you. Star & Flag, and not even because it's the holidays.

To be quite frank, I'm just relieved you didn't claim it was Nibiru.

Cheers, and see you at Frankie's.

reply to post by CherubBaby


The "North Star" is Polaris.

If you want to get biblical, i think that bright shiny object may have been Lucifer looking for Jesus so he could destroy him before he could do what he came to do, as he knew what approximate time period he would be born but not where or to whom (him not having God's omniscience paid off for us).

Scientifically though, it's considered to be the star called Polaris. Jesus was born around mid September to October During Tishrei near Sukkot, not December 25th. Christian translations got that wrong. Jesus wasn't born december 25th he was concieved around that time, count 9 months later for the normal human gestation period and you have Tishrei, right around Sukkot. Christmas is still a legitimate christian holiday, Jesus just wasn't born then but his conception took place.

reply to post by radpetey


Thank you and your welcome. It is something isn't it? I was hoping for a unity in the thread and who knows? It's looking good so far. Thanks for your participation and Merry Christmas to you and everyone.

reply to post by CherubBaby

The site you linked to is very text-heavy, with many pages of lengthy preamble and a messy, complex exegesis. For the benefit of those who haven’t the time or the patience to plough through it all, here is the executive summary:

The Star of Bethlehem was a conjunction of Jupiter and the bright star Regulus that occurred a year of so before the birth of Jesus during a period when Jupiter was in retrograde motion.

Conjunction is a term used in positional astronomy and astrology. It means that... two celestial bodies appear near one another in the sky.

Apparent retrograde motion is the motion of a planetary body in a direction opposite to that of other bodies within its system as observed from a particular vantage point [such as the Earth].

If a retrogade conjunction of Jupiter with Regulus did indeed occur in 2-3BC, as the article states, then astrologers (‘magi’) all over the world would certainly have noticed it and regarded it as highly significant. The explanation sounds very credible to me.

However, such an explanation does nothing to confirm claims of the divinity of Jesus or the truth of Christianity. It merely suggests that the Star of Bethlehem story has some basis in fact.

reply to post by Astyanax


Hello and I have to say you have every right to your opinion. You state that

The site you linked to is very text-heavy, with many pages of lengthy preamble and a messy, complex exegesis. For the benefit of those who haven’t the time or the patience to plough through it all, here is the executive summary:

Who's executive summary are you referring to?
The site is a short story in 4 parts. Each part is not anymore text heavy than anyother book describing an event that is scientific. I would also like to set the record straight in this sense that you go on to incorrectly give inaccurate summaries of the obvious stories conclusions. by saying

The Star of Bethlehem was a conjunction of Jupiter and the bright star Regulus that occurred a year of so before the birth of Jesus during a period when Jupiter was in retrograde motion

The above statment you make is only half true. The article clearly states

Jupiter had finished crowning Regulus. The Planet of Kings traveled on through the star field toward another spectacular rendezvous, this time with Venus, the Mother Planet. This conjunction was so close and so bright that it is today displayed in hundreds of planetaria around the world by scientists who may know nothing of Messiah. They do it because what Jupiter did makes such a great planetarium show. Jupiter appeared to join Venus. The planets could not be distinguished with the naked eye.

Jupiter and Regulus happened prior to the "Extraordinarily Close Conjunction" of Jupiter and Venus which was referred to as The Star Of Bethlehem.

You also end with

However, such an explanation does nothing to confirm claims of the divinity of Jesus or the truth of Christianity. It merely suggests that the Star of Bethlehem story has some basis in fact

I made it clear in the beginning of the thread when I said

I want to be clear from the outset, this story is not a story of religion or a call if you will, to the people who read it to "be saved" and become religious nor is it meant to condem. The truth is , it's a story that not only proves that science has this one right but God also had it right before science caught up.

Lets first look at what some of the experts have to say about the story. Look at their credentials if you will below.

Nice credentials. Why are there no names? Where are the full context statements?

An astronomer tracking the movement of planets through the star field watches not so much on the scale of minutes, but on the longer scale of days, weeks and months. On this scale of time, Jupiter did stop. On December 25 of 2 BC as it entered retrograde, Jupiter reached full stop in its travel through the fixed stars. Magi viewing from Jerusalem would have seen it stopped in the sky above the little town of Bethlehem.

Well, sort of. Jupiter did go retrograde in the last week of December 2 BC (and in May, and in April of 1 BC, not really a big deal). During the apparent change in direction the planet never really stops (it follows a narrow curve) but for about a week it does appear to stop as far as naked eye observation goes.

The problem is, Bethlehem is south (and a bit west) of Jerusalem. On December 25, 2BC (and for that week) Jupiter, "at its rising" was in the east-northeast a few hours after sunset. So from the point of view of Jerusalem, the Maji would have seen it "above" quite a few places on December 25th (and a few days on each side of it) on its path across the sky; any place from the ENE (where it rose) to the West (where it was when the Sun rose).

Interesting. The authors went through a lot to "prove" that Christ was born on December 25, 2BC. I don't really buy it and I don't really see why it matters. I don't think I'll buy the DVD either.

reply to post by CherubBaby


Cool thread. Off and on over the years I've read various speculations on what that star might have been. This is really a beautiful story and an absolutely believable explanation. Jupiter and Venus so close as to appear to have no space between them would make a spectacular sight. Kind of neat.

reply to post by Phage

if you watch the documentary (its free online in many places) you'll see that a conjunction of jupiter and venus are what caused it to be the brightest "star" in the sky.

i would recommend it, it's pretty good and a step away from the usual rejection of science that religious people thrive in.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

The conjunction of Jupiter and Venus occurred in June.
Jupiter is usually the brightest "star" in the sky, except when Venus or the Moon are brighter.

I prefer reading and in the reading it can be seen that many assumptions and interpretations are made in attempting to tie it all together. That isn't really science.

As I said, it's interesting but it's certainly no proof of anything for those who are interested in proof.

reply to post by CherubBaby

Sorry, I should have said: a conjunction with Regulus followed by one with Venus.

All the mythological stuff is neither here nor there, unless you are a superstitious person who believes in astrology, which Christians are not supposed to (though many do).

Put simply, the explanation offered is that a bright light in the sky caused by an astronomical conjunction was the Star of Bethlehem. I have absolutely no problem with that, though of course it has no bearing on whether Jesus ever lived or Christian dogma and doctrine are true. If you are a person of faith you don't need ages-old proof of the story anyway; you believe it and that’s that. So why are you trying to pick a fight?

Oh, and I agree with Phage: there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus was born in December. It is widely accepted, among Christians and non-Christians alike, that the date of Christmas was chosen to sanctify a formerly pagan solstice festival.

reply to post by Phage


No names?

Text"About 99.9% of the Star of Bethlehem stuff is nutty, but this isn't that. It's well-researched and reasonable."
Ronald A. Schorn, Ph.D.—
Schorn founded and served as Chief of the Planetary Astronomy department at NASA and was Technical Editor of Sky & Telescope magazine. He is the author of Planetary Astronomy

"Larson's understanding and use of orbital mechanics is accurate. This explanation of the Star of Bethlehem is compelling to me. It is consistent with the Biblical story. It pleases me that I can accept it as an engineer, and as an astronomy enthusiast
Frank T. Buzzard, Ph.D.—
NASA's Chief Engineer for both the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. Director of the Columbia shuttle accident task force.

"Your wide-ranging and insightful scholarship in the Scriptures and in the parallel historical record from Josephus, Tacitus and the rest! Your command of Kepler's clock!!... My hat is off to you."
Gerard Piel, Ph.D.—
Former Publisher and Editor, Scientific American magazine
Piel (1915-2004) was the holder of over twenty honorary doctorates. He published and edited Scientific American for nearly four decades, and served as President of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. A prolific writer, his last book is The Age of Science: What Scientists Learned in the Twentieth Century.

I dont see where you getting that the story said Jesus was born on the 25th of Decenber. The story says that

Jupiter did stop. On December 25 of 2 BC as it entered retrograde, Jupiter reached full stop in its travel through the fixed stars. Magi viewing from Jerusalem would have seen it stopped in the sky above the little town of Bethlehem.

It says Jupiter entered retrograde. Nothing about the birth of Jesus. The story does throw out several possibilities as far as a possible month of birth. But nothing definitive.

reply to post by Phage

Larson then uses the Starry Night software to search for astronomical events that occurred above the ancient Near East around 3–2 BC. He found a conjunction of Jupiter (the “king planet”) and Regulus (the “king star”) in 3 BC, which he claims would have announced the conception of Jesus to the magi. Following this model, roughly nine months later a conjunction of Jupiter and Venus formed the “star” of Bethlehem that led the magi from the east to Jerusalem. Finally, a few months later as the magi arrive in Jerusalem, Jupiter enters retrograde motion. According to Larson, it stops right over Bethlehem to lead the magi to Jesus’ location.

i don't believe a complete transcript of the movie exists. researching the validity of a claim is usually done after you hear what is being said.

reply to post by Astyanax


Picking a fight? Why would you say such a thing? I posted the thread to show a few experts opinions and scientificallly to show ( The Star of Bethlehem ) wasn't a wives tale. Nothing more.
I also said the thread was in no way meant to be a religious topic but rather a scientific one..
So why make it into a religious issue?