Should Police Have to Buy Their Own Guns?

I was talking to a friend of mine last night and he had proposed an idea to help reduce both police brutality AND cut some money out of our budget.

Would it be a wise idea to make police officers pay for their own weapons out of their own private money?

I suspect this thread ending up being the usefulness of police vs police brutality.

In my personal opinion, making police pay for their own firearms is a double edged sword.

On one hand, police officers need their firearms to protect the people and themselves from crime. However, at the same time, by making police pay for their own weapons and/or vehicles it would potentially cut a nice chunk on money out of the budget and possibly put a nice dent on police brutality.

Imagine being told you have to go out and do what police at occupy Oakland were doing, but you cannot afford to pay for the riot gear out of your own pocket. I have a feeling way less tear gas is going to be used against American civilians if police have to buy them themselves.

Please post your thoughts on the idea here, can't wait to see what people have to say

what about ammo for the guns surely using ammo in line of the job should be provided but when every cop has a different gun requiring different ammo to suit their taste it would probably cost the tax payer more since they couldn't bulk buy the same ammo and i'm sure theres probably some ammo out there that would put a scared face on an accountants face when he see's the bill on his desk

I think that their unions would have a problem with the individual officers buying their own weapons (no doubt to a force provided spec) and then using them to shoot someone. Might open the police officers to more liability in the event of a wrongful death lawsuit.

Cops should be trained to shoot straight. The overwhelming majority of those that I have seen shooting weapons are very poor shots.

reply to post by Vortiki


I find myself as of late not siding with the current state of affairs in the policing world. But, I can not agree with this. I understand your point of view.

I can not imagine you would want a police officer arriving at your house to four armed intruders with a sling shot. Proper policing also needs uniformity. By that, their gear has to be interchangeable/exchangeable amongst them selves in case a crisis arrives. That's why a lot of depts issue firearms to their officers so in case they need ammo from another officer.

Lately the police have been getting a lot of negative attention. Rightfully so. OWS was either a massive miscommunicated debacle in terms of what the police should and should not do or they are just showing themselves for what they are. Protectors of the 1% and their assets.

I like to think that for every bad cop there is a good cop. I gather I will continue to feel this way till I take a gas canister of the head or thrown face first into the front of a Volvo.

Originally posted by Maxatoria
what about ammo for the guns surely using ammo in line of the job should be provided but when every cop has a different gun requiring different ammo to suit their taste it would probably cost the tax payer more since they couldn't bulk buy the same ammo and i'm sure theres probably some ammo out there that would put a scared face on an accountants face when he see's the bill on his desk

So you put regulations on types of ammunition that are allowed? I cannot see the need for police to be using anything other than a 9mm or NATO standard 5.56mm.

At the same time i LOVE London's example of no one using firearms except the police officers that have gone through classes and have paid and received certificates. Even then they may only carry their firearms when responding to a call in which a civilian is armed with one.

reply to post by BlastedCaddy


Always nice to have some constructive criticism. I also am unsure which side of the argument I rest on for this same reason. It's easy to say "Yes, make police buy their own gear" when you're being attacked for peaceful protest.

At the same time you'd almost want the exact opposite thing if someone was robbing your house and the police showed up without weapons.

You need to think about what weapons they would buy !
Some cheep skate buys an obsolete model that's prone to jamming ....... Is it gonna work when it counts ?
And then the flip side - some tackleberry fng urban commando gets himself a desert eagle 50 and blows suspects in half
Then there's standards of traing on everyone's different weapon
Weapon instructors need to be qualified in EVERY different weapon in order to asses the individuals skill at arms on his/her weapon ..... Bad idea in my opinion

Originally posted by Neocrusader
You need to think about what weapons they would buy !
Some cheep skate buys an obsolete model that's prone to jamming ....... Is it gonna work when it counts ?
And then the flip side - some tackleberry fng urban commando gets himself a desert eagle 50 and blows suspects in half
Then there's standards of traing on everyone's different weapon
Weapon instructors need to be qualified in EVERY different weapon in order to asses the individuals skill at arms on his/her weapon ..... Bad idea in my opinion

How about this:


Police all use the same standard models as they have been, but still must pay for the gear themselves?

I can understand the issues with variety and the instructors having to be trained in the usage of every weapon the officers are using. Very valid point I hadn't taken into consideration, Star for you

While I would applaud a officer who bought their own weapon, it would have to conform with dept. standards.

Most LEO's I know buy their own ammo anyway to train with anyway.

I just donated 300 rds to my local PD for that very purpose.

Originally posted by Vortiki

Originally posted by Maxatoria
what about ammo for the guns surely using ammo in line of the job should be provided but when every cop has a different gun requiring different ammo to suit their taste it would probably cost the tax payer more since they couldn't bulk buy the same ammo and i'm sure theres probably some ammo out there that would put a scared face on an accountants face when he see's the bill on his desk

So you put regulations on types of ammunition that are allowed? I cannot see the need for police to be using anything other than a 9mm or NATO standard 5.56mm.

At the same time i LOVE London's example of no one using firearms except the police officers that have gone through classes and have paid and received certificates. Even then they may only carry their firearms when responding to a call in which a civilian is armed with one.

given you expect officers to buy their own weapons you should expect them to pick their favourite weapon which is where the money saving comes apart since everyone has their favourite combo of weapon/ammo that feels just right for them as the moment you restrict their choice you might as well pay for their weapon and enjoy the bulk buy deals for both

and as for londons use of firearms it has also to be authorised by a senior police officer unless they are under attack if i remember correctly and they're secured inside a locked cabinet in the car and the list of things they have to do before being able to return fire is pretty strict

my view is this NO to many types or hand guns out there , and calibers , cops can get things we can not, Dep issued 9, 45 or 38, 357 leave it at that, you say they can buy there own mp5, big 50, teck 9 as seen here world.guns.ru... bad enough the bad guys have them, and you say cops could ave them??? H3LL NO!!!!

Just a quick thought. When I was involved we were given the choice of using standard issue, which was to be returned upon leaving the career, or buying your own (within certain broad limits). I was satisfied with standard issue, but one member bought three of his own, wicked looking things, and kept trying for transfer to New York or Chicago. He figured that was where the "excitement" was.

I don't know what that proves, except perhaps, looking at the agent may be more important than looking at the weapons.

Def. Not. Should come with the job. I also disagree with having to buy your own uniforms to work in a certain place. Just bull#. Unless it was all put in pot for a party at the end of the year or something.

I don't understand what buying their own guns would do to reduce brutality. Are you trying to reduce the budget or privatize police firearms? Or create a sense of moral responsibility? Any gun issued to an officer still has responsibility attached to it, and they have to turn it in when there is a problem. Would the State be allowed to demand a privately owned firearm be turned it? Would it still be confiscated by the State?

reply to post by bekod


So like I've previously said, you could still require police to use the same issued firearms as they are using now, just make them pay forit themselves instead of using tax payer dollars.

reply to post by Vortiki


I dont see how it would change much seeing most police weapons are barrack owned and pass through many hands in their line of service. Plus most cops prefer to buy and carry their own weapon of choice, in the depts that allow it anyway. But basically they buy the guns taht shoot cheap ammo 9mm and .40 cal so ammo costs arent that great in comparison to the when everyone carried a heavy frame revolver that shot mag loads. Guns and ammo arent expensive a ya think.

Originally posted by RARARAsputin
reply to post by Vortiki

 

I dont see how it would change much seeing most police weapons are barrack owned and pass through many hands in their line of service. Plus most cops prefer to buy and carry their own weapon of choice, in the depts that allow it anyway. But basically they buy the guns taht shoot cheap ammo 9mm and .40 cal so ammo costs arent that great in comparison to the when everyone carried a heavy frame revolver that shot mag loads. Guns and ammo arent expensive a ya think.

Perhaps not, but it might also deter police from WANTING to use firearms or lethal force as they aren't getting the biggest paycheck in the world. Imagine having to worry about ammunition and weapons when you barely have enough money to match the cost of living.

Originally posted by Vortiki
reply to post by bekod

 

So like I've previously said, you could still require police to use the same issued firearms as they are using now, just make them pay forit themselves instead of using tax payer dollars.

so realistically since its a tool of the trade they could pay for it a few bucks a week out of the wages and if they leave early its taken from their final pay check, but like most things the cost will be covered via them getting an extra payment to cover something else like maint of the firearm etc so it'll cost the same just it'll be booked in over a longer time under a different cost code making no difference

My PD in Michigan has to buy their own. Some depts. do some don't. I suspect most don't.

2nd


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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
I don't understand what buying their own guns would do to reduce brutality. Are you trying to reduce the budget or privatize police firearms? Or create a sense of moral responsibility? Any gun issued to an officer still has responsibility attached to it, and they have to turn it in when there is a problem. Would the State be allowed to demand a privately owned firearm be turned it? Would it still be confiscated by the State?

This raises a question I have not taken into consideration. I would think if there is a problem you should have to turn in your privately owned firearm.

Originally the conversation had come around as ways to save on tax payer dollars, then it had evolved into everything else involved. The purpose of this thread is to merely get the general public's thoughts on the idea. So far you're all doing a great job of raising very important questions