A Look at the Single Bullet Theory..

Once? He went forward grabbing his throat-chest. Twice? Then he was thrown backwards with the top of his right skull flying away. At least 2 or more bullets.

Repository, grassy knoll and from inside a sewer vent at street level.

Enough.

Why not get into Lincolns "one-bullet" conspiracy? My point, friends.

I've had a passing interest in this case for years but have never dug into at this level of detail. One thing I notice about most conspiracy theorists is a noticeable bias to want their side of the case to be correct so for the record I'm more biased on the side of the lone shooter hypothesis.

To tell you more about me, like many others, I've been in the 6th floor museum and walked around in Dealey plaza. It's an interesting place and I would recommend it to folks who have an interest in what happened. I've also spent a good bit of time shooting guns including many kinds of rifles. Something that I noticed right away when I first went into the 6th floor museum is how much smaller the whole scene looked compared to film footage. Looking at the white X on the pavement from the window was a real eye opener because the distance doesn't seem very far, certainly not far for the range of a rifle.

One thing I note about Oswald is that over and over again people mention that he was not an expert with a rifle. I don't know what most people consider an expert to be, but in my opinion, Oswald would most defintely qualify as an expert. Consider that he was trained as a marine sniper and had some decent scores. People should not underestimate what that means. He was not tops in his class but that is irrelevant. I've known more than one Marine and one conclusion about them is they are serious about their rifle training. To hear some people describe Oswald you would think he was some average guy off the street. The facts say otherwise. If you are a marine sniper (or had been recently) then you are an expert. Period. There's no reason to imagine an expert as some person with super human rifle skills. Regardless of whether anyone likes Oswald personally, the man had real skills developed through real training. In my own experience with shooting rifles at much greater distances than the 65 yards or so that Oswald did, I think it is a safe assumption that he COULD have accomplished the shooting. The skill he exhibited was somewhat impressive but not at all unbelievable.

I seem to remember that the mail order ad that was found in Oswald's belongings showed that the rifle he selected (and circled) was the least expensive one on the page. If he were being given the task of assasination by other parties, I would expect that he would have been supplied with better equipment out of plain common sense. Why take a chance on a military surplus rifle if it's that important. Not that the Italian Carcano is really that inadequate though. It has been a while, but I am almost certain I've seen a demonstration on the internet of it being shot 3 times in less than 8 seconds so I'm highly skeptical of contrary claims with respect to this detail. In fact, one video was of someone who did that the very first time out at the range with the rifle. Many of the Carcano's had loose sloppy actions allowing for rather fast cycling. Although, again, I've heard just exactly the opposite of those trying to make a case stating that it has a tight action (some examples might have, many don't). Also the 6.5mm X 52 Mannlicher is an decent cartridge for sniping having a good combination of high ballistic coefficient and sectional density. Having said that though, .. obviously better rifles exists for sniping.

I'm wondering if anyone else saw the documentary produced a few years ago where they recreated a 3D model of the Dealey Plaza in the computer and animated it and included the shots recorded from the motorcyle. They also created, with considerable effort, human torso models and put them in a the same arrangement as Kennedy and Connally -- then shot them. The results were very similar to what was concluded in the official report.

Anyway sorry if I'm off topic (from the single bullet topic) but just wanted to mention those things since they came to mind and since they touched on a few things in the OP's post. Good job, btw, to the OP.

One final thing I wanted to say, even further off topic, when I read about the assasination, it really saddens me, and I felt that while writing this post. I see Kennedy as a real person; someone I could have shaken hands with and talked to. When I was younger I didn't sense the pain of the story, it was just another historical event. Politics aside, let's all try to remember him as a real human being and a fine man, flaws and all, and someone who would have liked to have gone home to his family that day just like the rest of us.

reply to post by Rising Against


The Kennedy conspiracy is always interesting because it was an event that can be studied from beginning to end.

What are your thought on the zapruder film?

Is that something that the architects of the assignation didn't take into account before hand?

Or was it something they were counting on.

In other words do you feel the existence on that footage helps or hinders the official explanation?

Very good research friend. Indeed I argue the one shot through the throat; for with the interview with Mrs. Kennedy she was scrambing to pick up his parts off the trunk ( you can see her scrambling on the trunk after the shot) out of panic driven madness. This sort of evidence though is only discussed around campfires for fun though; apparently the operative behind this execution buried the evidence under times veil. Sadly most people only concern themselfes with a 5 year time frame

If we only had today's technology the date the assasination occured, it would be more than a campfire entertainment.

Kennedy opposed the shadow government only weeks before his assasination. This is the most important proof that one actually exist; and I believe it still does...republican or democrat...2 wings of one bird...same flight path.

reply to post by mysterioustranger

Once? He went forward grabbing his throat-chest. Twice?

Then he was thrown backwards with the top of his right skull flying away. At least 2 or more bullets.

Repository, grassy knoll and from inside a sewer vent at street level.

Enough.

Well no, not "enough" at all. All of that is nothing but your opinion. Just because it's your opinion that doesn't automatically make it a fact as well.

What about a shot from the dal-tex building for example. That's practically a certainty. What about a shot from 285? And the many more other plausible scenarios..

Why not get into Lincolns "one-bullet" conspiracy?

You mean,.. Like this: Rising Against: Inside The Conspiracy To Murder Lincoln

Good Work,RA! S&F as always! I never bought the Magic Bullet Theory,Spector and Ford pulled that from,frankly their asses.I'm sure you have read about how the autopsy photos were faked.The Parkland doctors denounced the photos to the HSCA and back in the 60's Jim Garrison had one of the doctors who performed the autopsy of the President testify that they were ordered to forgo several standard procedures.

I would be interested in knowing how much the round weighed. If heavy enough and with enough velocity it could very well have caused the injuries described. Even 9mm FMJ pistol ammo can easily pass through 15 inches of ballistic gelatin.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! I am so tired of seeing this stuff on Kennedy. Will someone please put a single bullet in the head of this conspiracy? Who cares anymore, it was 1963. OK we get it, it was November 22nd and this is the aniversary of his death but, really do we have to keep doing this every single year? No one has come to any definative conclusions and the only ones accepted are the lying government. No one cares anymore. Will everyone just let this one die already?

Originally posted by Phenomium
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! I am so tired of seeing this stuff on Kennedy. Will someone please put a single bullet in the head of this conspiracy? Who cares anymore, it was 1963. OK we get it, it was November 22nd and this is the aniversary of his death but, really do we have to keep doing this every single year? No one has come to any definative conclusions and the only ones accepted are the lying government. No one cares anymore. Will everyone just let this one die already?

Aaaaand the most pointless reply of the day goes tooo.. Phenomium! Congratulations.

Ok, newsflash.. this is a conspiracy website, thus the discussion of conspiracies like the JFK assassination - one of the biggest conspiracies of all time now.

If conspiracies annoy you, then maybe ATS is not the site for you. Or if the JFK assassination is not a topic you want to discuss.. maybe you shouldn't reply to JFK threads like this one.

Edit: You may not care about it anymore, but others, like myself, do. No need to start hating because others people like a topic you don't happen to find interesting in the slightest though, lol.

The elite must hate science and logic.

Good work OP.

Originally posted by Phenomium
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! I am so tired of seeing this stuff on Kennedy. Will someone please put a single bullet in the head of this conspiracy? Who cares anymore, it was 1963. OK we get it, it was November 22nd and this is the aniversary of his death but, really do we have to keep doing this every single year? No one has come to any definative conclusions and the only ones accepted are the lying government. No one cares anymore. Will everyone just let this one die already?

"People tell me, 'Bill, let it go. The Kennedy assassination was years ago. It was just the assassination of a President and the hijacking of our government by a totalitarian regime — who cares? Just let it go.' I say, 'All right then. That whole Jesus thing? Let it go! It was 2,000 years ago! Who cares?'" - Bill Hicks.

Lets drop history entirely, it doesn't tell us anything anyway

Arlen Specter's "Single Bullet" nonsense was the greatest malicious subterfuge ever inflicted on the American people. Specter was rewarded for his creativity by serving in various government positions until only recently (Jan. 2011).

This "single bullet" fantasy alone points to a cover-up at the highest levels. They did not want the public to know the truth. Why? Well I believe this was a straight up coup d'etat, were a democratically elected President was executed to make way for someone who was more accommodating to the military-industrial complex and the CIA.

It's important to understand what really happened so that the chance of it happening again (a covert, illegal and violent overthrow of the government) is reduced. For those who think it was "too long ago", I can only surmise they are of the twitter generation and have attentions spans of 2 year olds.

As George Santayana once wrote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

reply to post by ThreadTrekker


Hey there ThreadTrekker, thanks for that great, thought-out post!

I do have to say though I disagree with some of what you said. Like this for example:

One thing I note about Oswald is that over and over again people mention that he was not an expert with a rifle. I don't know what most people consider an expert to be, but in my opinion, Oswald would most defintely qualify as an expert.

Oswald was trained in the Marines yes, and he did acquire the level of "sharpshooter" but he was anything but an expert. My goodness he wasn't even close. Hell, he was often teased and called names I can't repeat here due to the terms and conditions by the other marines because of his poor skills with shooting a weapon.

In regards to reaching the level of sharpshooter, well, yes he did do this. But only by a mere 2 points. The level of sharpshooter being the second of 3 grades of marksmanship so It's not like he blitzed the test. He barely made it at all.

Sure he was trained to shoot a weapon, that's undoubtedly true. But he was certainly no expert let along particularly good. But don't take my word for it, there's plenty of sources out there citing comments from his marine buddies. One of the most well known from the beginning of the documentary Rush to judgement where Nelson Delgado is interviewed by Mark Lane.

He's also showed signs of being less than adequate with guns. He did shoot himself at one point while in the marines remember. And again, he was often teased for his relatively poor skills.

I think it is a safe assumption that he COULD have accomplished the shooting

I think it all depends on the timing of the shots really.

After all if there really was a shot at frame 285 for example, which there appears to be and this is also when Connolly says himself he was struck, then there's simply no way he could've accomplished a shot at frame 313 - the head shot.

I'm wondering if anyone else saw the documentary produced a few years ago where they recreated a 3D model of the Dealey Plaza in the computer and animated it and included the shots recorded from the motorcyle. They also created, with considerable effort, human torso models and put them in a the same arrangement as Kennedy and Connally -- then shot them. The results were very similar to what was concluded in the official report.

Ahh yes, the work of Dale Myers. Here's the video:



I'm still not convinced though. And I highlighted exactly why in my opening posts. To accept this computer animation would be to reject other parts of the case which have to be considered..

Outstanding thread OP...I have only had time to skim thru it at the moment but your thread is very well thought out and has great details. I have always been intrigued with the Kennedy assassination so this will be a great read. Thanks

RA, thanks for the good thread; I to have been on this since I read 'Rush to Judgement'. It's sad that the textbooks and encyclopedias still cling to the SBT. Fifty years from now, 911 will be the same way.

As others have said, great post.

Other than the computer recreation, a few years ago the Discovery Channel had an Unsolved History program "JFK, Beyond the Magic Bullet". To make it short, they did a static physical recreation using anatomically correct torsos(tissue, bones etc), distance and weapon. Guess what, the single bullet behaved almost exactly as the SBT described. The difference was not enough energy left to penetrate Connelly's thigh, it bounced off. Although it did break two of his ribs instead of one. It was a very interesting program. Please don't ping on me about the results or methodology of the program, I am just relaying the info a program exists. If you a get a chance do watch it.

That program has really left me wondering. Before like most I thought the SBT belonged in the same category as Santa Bunny the Tooth Pumpkin, now I about 99% believe it.

The conspiracy aspect of the assassination is more complex due not only to the number of possible players involved but also attempting to keep our emotions and beliefs under control to be as objective as possible. I think maintaining objectivity is the biggest obstacle to filtering the data to answer the conspiracy question.

reply to post by willyclem

Guess what, the single bullet behaved almost exactly as the SBT described. The difference was not enough energy left to penetrate Connelly's thigh, it bounced off. Although it did break two of his ribs instead of one. It was a very interesting program. Please don't ping on me about the results or methodology of the program, I am just relaying the info a program exists. If you a get a chance do watch it.

Hey there.

Sorry, but we've known that documentary is nothing more than a sham for a while now. (Assuming we're talking about the same one that is). Bob Harris has a video on it on youtube, I'll post it here for you to have a look through yourself though (It's only 4 minutes and 12 seconds so It's not too long):



So it's not quite as clear cut as they implied it was. In fact if anything, they concluded that the bullet struck at the same place I did so in this thread, lol. Anyway in the future, and please trust me on this, if you see something on the discovery channel, especially a claim something has been "debunked" whether it be on the JFK case or any other case, please, please, please do take it with a pinch of salt. They have a reputation for pulling this kind of nonsense unfortunately.

That was an amazing and well thought out post. I don't think anyone mentioned it but the National Geographic channel did 2 shows called JFK: The Lost Bullet. I'm sure it's on youtube. They actually made HD copies of many of the films made on that day. It was really amazing what you could see with a lot of extra clarity in the films. Putting them together they got a really nice timeline of the events. They even got a shot of the person in the window in the Depository, although before the shooting admittedly. They figured out what happened to the 2nd and 3rd bullets but not the first. When they looked at other films (Mark bell, Elsie Dorman, etc.) and a government re-creation of the assassination they saw a hole in the stop light almost directly underneath the window. It seems as if the first bullet hit that street light missing Kennedy and ricochet'd down the plaza causing the injury to Mr. Tague. Adding up when the first shot was fired Oswald probably had 11+ seconds to get the shots off which seems much more reasonable. With that I think there is a little less involved with the assassination then we think.

reply to post by mendog8


Oh yeah I saw that. Admittedly though I wasn't too impressed.

I posted my thoughts on it here: JFK: The lost Bullet - My post

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by willyclem

 

Hey there.

Sorry, but we've known that documentary is nothing more than a sham for a while now. (Assuming we're talking about the same one that is). Bob Harris has a video on it on youtube, I'll post it here for you to have a look through yourself though (It's only 4 minutes and 12 seconds so It's not too long):

Thanks for the video, I need to search for the Discovery program to watch it again now that I have been on my current painkiller meds for a few years. At the time I had just started a new increased regimen(100mcg/hr fentanyl patch, 100mg/day morphine) and I was not as attentive as might have been. At least I can watch the video then search for the program.

Then, cold or not, I am going flying.....................................30 degrees, open cockpit biplane..YEEHAW