Glenn Beck vs Ron Paul on Israel

reply to post by SrWingCommander

1. I am a Christian (farily evangelical, and dispensationalist) so it's kind of a religous requirement for various reasons so to speak.

Is it because it's the holy land?

2. Putting number 1 aside, since we as a society share the same basic Judeo-Christian Moral's...it ties us socially/culturally to Isreal. Islam maybe an Abrahamic Faith, but it's general culture runs pretty counter to modern Western/Judeo Christian Values.

Ties due to religious dominance/majority ... hmm. Interesting.

3. Only functional representative democracy in the Middle East. Essentially a western country in the Middle East/Eastern sphere of the world. We would protect the UK, Franch, Germany, and the rest of Western Europe if threatened, so by extenison we should do the same.

Is that why they are hated? "Only functional representative democracy in the Middle East." perhaps. Protecting something means to defend it. How are we defending them by attacking preemptively? So, by extension, should we attack those that "threaten" Germany? LoL If so, mebbe we should target Greece? (Though only an economic threat, still a threat nonetheless.)

4.We do have quite a bit of trade with Isreal. Technology especially. Now much of that is military based, but it still provides jobs in the US.

We have quite a bit of trade with many countries. I would love to see how they provide jobs in the US...that are non governmental. Please link and enlighten me.

5. Like it or not (or think that it's a conspiracy or not), there are many influenctial Jewish people in the US and a sizable number of those of the Jewish faith (regardless of influence) in the general population. When you through in (mostly) evangelical Christian's....this is a sizable voting block, that most running politicians can't ignore. Essentially, supporting Isreal is the will of a sizable (about 50% give or take, haven't seen a recent poll) chunk of the US population.

So, 50% of christians and jews vote for politicians due to their adherence to some loyalty to Israel? Another point that I find interesting. Loyalty to country is superceded by loyalty to Israel.........

6. Finally I think there is still a latent national feeling of sorrow, shame, or even guilt because of the holocaust. And with various groups/leaders/countries continually threatening Israel, there is the national cry of "never again".

Why do we feel sorrow? I , nor anyone in my generation, committed a holocaust. Why should America feel guilt for something that was caused by another country? You must remember, THEY decided to go there. No one drove them to it. They were not banished with nowhere to go....except there. Why not gather within a tolerant country and build a political force? Why did they need to instate their state? Just curious, thus the thread. And thank you for a well thought out response.

From what I have read here so far, America supports Israel due to a biblical obligation, because it is a "lone beacon of Democracy" and even because America is actually run by the "zionists".

I look at it from a practical view.

Glenn Beck, though entertaining, has fallen in love with Israel based on his biblical views. I do not begrudge him nor anyone else that holds to that.

Ron Paul views it from a practical standpoint. America does not have the money to kill Muslims. Most of us don't even want to. From my understanding, even way before Israel was founded, there was war in the middle east. Losing this "beacon" would not change their behavior. However, I do not like to see anyone be killed.

Those that have actually listened to Ron Paul would know. He is not against fighting threats. He is only against made up wars. He stated it is up to Congress to declare war. Therefore, if an ally was being attacked and facing destruction, I could see him asking Congress to do just that. Declare war and, with full support and understanding of what the cause was, send willing troops to defend a weaker nation. The greatest warriors are those that fight with free will.

So, I do not think, at this time, we should fight Israel's battles. But, as an ally, if they are attacked and need our aid? We then should properly declare war and make an example of those that seek to hurt us and our friends. The same thing we would do for any country that is on friendly terms with us.

Charity starts at home. I cannot help my neighbor until I have set my own house in order. Nuff.

Originally posted by xstealth
If Israel is God's chosen people then why do we have to support them? What can we give that God can't? It's so ignorant to think that we can supplement God's care.

They will be fine, I agree with Paul; they need their sovereignty.

[color=#FF6600]Finally somebody who really gets it.

Let "God's chosen people" put their money where their Torah is and keep their filthy hands off of our money and military goods. Had the Palestinians written the Torah, then they would be called "God's chosen people". Had the Cherokee written the Torah, then they would be called "God's chosen people".

Glenn Beck is a shill for the Zionists. I am sure it is in his contract somewhere.

I think that Beck did a lot with his Fox program to bring to light a lot of curruption in the white house, and for that I am thankful. However, he is a christian, so that is a requirement to support Israel. Therein lies my major problem with christianity. The Bible was written BY Jews, and FOR Jews. If I were going to write a book , or put together a book with several authors' written letters, you bet I would name MY own people as "god's chosen", and you bet I would say that the whole world should support MY people.

No big secret here. The problem is that churches preach that false doctrine every sunday, and millions of people beleive it.

Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by SrWingCommander

 

4.We do have quite a bit of trade with Isreal. Technology especially. Now much of that is military based, but it still provides jobs in the US.

We have quite a bit of trade with many countries. I would love to see how they provide jobs in the US...that are non governmental. Please link and enlighten me.

Since most of your responses hinge on disputing my religious beliefs. I'll leave you with this per your request,

www.census.gov...
www.texasisrael.org...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

That being said, the US/Isreal free trade pact hasn't been the best for us....it should probably be renegotiated.

www.prnewswire.com...

reply to post by SrWingCommander


Thanks for the links. I at no point "disputed" your religious beliefs. I simply wanted clarification as to what you meant and where you stand.
I just found your response the most well thought out.