Students Peppersprayed by Police for Fighting At School

This happened at my school yesterday after school was out: At my school fights are very rare and always end with few punches thrown and the people leaving, no cheap shots or gang beats but yesterday after school there was a large crowd of students crowding around to watch the fight when seemingly out of nowhere cops pull up and pepper spray the two kids fighting and other people in close vicinity to them. Everyone ran into the streets and parking lot some of them i could see that they were having trouble breathing or couldent see well so i wonder is this an excessive use of force or is it justified cause this doesent seem right for the police to do, but i guess canada is becoming more americanized and they werent even trying to occupy anything. So your thoughts on this cause im dissapointed with my city and country. You have heard that if you look at someones circle in there fist you get punched, but i guess if you look at a circle of people you get peppersprayed.

If there was a large number of people (20 or so) and the police arrive and tell them all to leave and they don't then I'd say it's justified. They didn't kill anyone.

It always makes me roll my eyes when someone gets tazed or pepper sprayed, or hit with a rubber bullet then complain about it. First, they complain about lethal force, now they don't want non-lethal force...meanwhile they continue to break the laws and can't follow simple instructions.

I see no issue with police pepper spraying these students. Its unfortunate others were affected by the capsicum however pepper spraying fighters is much better than police getting involved physically whereby arms and wrists can get broken. Not to mention if you have during the struggle someone start tugging at an officers gun or even fighting with an officer, deadly consequences could result.

Aside from saving people from felony charges of battery on a law enforcement officer, pepper spray diffuses the stuation without any phycial altercation with a suspect.....sounds great to me. I don't get where people call this excessive force, the only alternative is being manhandled by police until you are compliant.

Most of these excessive calls come from young people - they dont remember a day before tasers and pepper spray. Before them, officers used the other legal tools on their belt, PR-24 batons to beat you to compliance...or an all out physical fight to subdue you. What would you rather have, a vegetable oil in the eyes and nose or a broken arm, nose, and clavicle?

Easy choice for me....but then, I dont get into fights or obstruct law enforcement.

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3


It always makes me roll my eyes when someone gets tazed or pepper sprayed, or hit with a rubber bullet then complain about it. First, they complain about lethal force, now they don't want non-lethal force...meanwhile they continue to break the laws and can't follow simple instructions.

-- Couldn't have said it better Navy Vet.

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3


Thank you for your consideration iwas not saying it was unjustified i just wanted to know what people would think and there was easily 75 to 100 students watching this so yeah the cops were probaly needed

reply to post by DarwinianLaw


me nither man i would never obstruct law as an aspiring police officer myself. i wonder have any of you heard of devils blood it is pure capsium extract hottest thing on earth you think they could use that for riots or would that be to um hurtful?

What would you like to see happen.

Options
1. Wade into the crowd and give them a stern look
Of course the crowd would immediately disperse
2. Wade into the crowd and handcuff the students that were involved
Of course the crowd would cooperate and help control the combatants
3. Use nightsticks and/or hit the student to control the situation?
4. Tazers
5. Just use their PA systems

What did you expect?

reply to post by Wildbob77


personaly id like to see tazers or night sticks just for the fun of it it would amuse me

Originally posted by The Arbiter of Lies
reply to post by DarwinianLaw

 

me nither man i would never obstruct law as an aspiring police officer myself. i wonder have any of you heard of devils blood it is pure capsium extract hottest thing on earth you think they could use that for riots or would that be to um hurtful?

edit on 20-12-2011 by The Arbiter of Lies because: (no reason given)

-- that sounds nasty. I think the pepper tools they have now are good enough for large riots, I do kow they have higher concentrations available for mass use - but pure capsicum oil would not do any one any good....

reply to post by The Arbiter of Lies

I just don't know what has happened to judgement, discretion and basic old fashioned common sense. Cops used to have it. Even in some of the most violent cities America has to offer a Police Officer, this kind of overkill and rush to a chemical agent or taser is something rather new. In Canada though? Jeeze.... You members in Canada are just dashing my whole fantasy image of a final refuge of sanity to the North when the last shreds of sense vanish down here.


I guess it just runs totally outside the bounds of rational thought for a modern cop to LET PEOPLE SETTLE something when it's bare knuckles right? I'd say the cops themselves probably had a few knock down, drag out fights growing up...but sadly, that probably isn't true and THAT is the problem. Canada is apparently little better than we are about recruiting college kids and academic types to POLICE WORK of all things.

I suppose when you have a couple college kids that KNOW the crowd of high schoolers could kick their tails up and down the street before really getting angry about things.....this kind of total overkill is ALL they have. What happened to recruiting vets and other types for Police work who actually ARE capable of putting someone in a come along hold or an old fashioned arm lock rather than soaking them in a chemical weapon. BOOOOO on the cops for this one.

I think breaking up a fight and dispersing a crowd is the perfect use for pepper spray. The only thing better is a firehose.

It sounds like the police acted appropriately for the situation.

Now, ideally, the way my old coaches and principles handled it. They would disperse the crowd, get rid of the gawkers, and then take the two fighters into the gym, and let them fight it out. When the crowd was gone, they usually didn't want to fight nearly as bad, and it kind of humbled them both. Once they had worked out their differences, they were then told that any future occurences would result in expulsion, but that very rarely happened. They were usually friends afterwards.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

LET PEOPLE SETTLE something when it's bare knuckles right? I'd say the cops themselves probably had a few knock down, drag out fights growing up...

Frivolous lawsuits and molly-coddling parents happened. Two kids get in a fight, and instead of blaming the two kids, they blame the school, the cops, the music, the other parents, or whatever else they can blame. These days it is too economically dangerous for a cop or a school to use any common sense. Instead, they have to protect themselves from lawsuits by over-reacting to the slightest threats.

reply to post by getreadyalready

I suppose you have a good point on that. If your line of reasoning holds for the responses we see vs, how things were handled in the not so distant past, then I guess it's even fair to say people have made their own bed with much of the abuse it's leading to.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I just don't know what has happened to judgement, discretion and basic old fashioned common sense. Cops used to have it. Even in some of the most violent cities America has to offer a Police Officer, this kind of overkill and rush to a chemical agent or taser is something rather new. In Canada though? Jeeze.... You members in Canada are just dashing my whole fantasy image of a final refuge of sanity to the North when the last shreds of sense vanish down here.

What? Are you serious? Common sense? You seem to be the last person to dictate common sense in this case. Judgement, discretion and common sense would dictate breaking up the fight.

I guess it just runs totally outside the bounds of rational thought for a modern cop to LET PEOPLE SETTLE something when it's bare knuckles right?

YES! Of course it does. Especially when the police are present. The police are not paid referees. The police are paid to enforce the law, protect persons and property and protect the public peace.

Lets say, for a moment, the police arrived and your form of common sense prevailed. They allowed the kids to fight while they watched and one of the kids ended up injured, seriously injured or dead? What do you think the child's parents would have wanted the police to do? Probably break up the fight.

I'd say the cops themselves probably had a few knock down, drag out fights growing up...but sadly, that probably isn't true and THAT is the problem.

What are you trying to say with this comment? Are you trying to say that the police, as children, probably were involved in a few fights themselves? Or are you trying to say that the police, as children, were never involved in a fight? I dont undestand what you are trying to say here.

Canada is apparently little better than we are about recruiting college kids and academic types to POLICE WORK of all things.

Again, what does this have to do with anything?

I suppose when you have a couple college kids that KNOW the crowd of high schoolers could kick their tails up and down the street before really getting angry about things.....this kind of total overkill is ALL they have.

How do you have any idea of the educational background of the police officers? You assume they are college educated because they used pepper spray? Pepper spray is an excellent choice in this situation. It immediately gets their attention, stops the fight, and hurts like hell for about 40 minutes to an hour without any lasting injury.

What happened to recruiting vets and other types for Police work who actually ARE capable of putting someone in a come along hold or an old fashioned arm lock rather than soaking them in a chemical weapon.

You are a strange bird.

Please. Chemical weapon? They didnt douse them with mustard gas. They were pepper sprayed. In what situation should a police officer use pepper spray if not in a situation like this?

Most who bash the police argue that recruiting veterans and "other types" is a major problem for police departments because of their alleged "predisposition towards violence." You, on the other hand, argue that veterans and "other types" should be recruited over college graduates because they know how to handle themselves in a fight.

I think you should stop being ridiculous and over-critical whenever you are commenting on what the police do. The line between clear excessive force and a police officer doing his or her job has been blurred because of people, like you, who are over-critical in situations like this.

Boo on you for that.

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
If there was a large number of people (20 or so) and the police arrive and tell them all to leave and they don't then I'd say it's justified. They didn't kill anyone.

It always makes me roll my eyes when someone gets tazed or pepper sprayed, or hit with a rubber bullet then complain about it. First, they complain about lethal force, now they don't want non-lethal force...meanwhile they continue to break the laws and can't follow simple instructions.

I was about to say this myself.

And also, this quoted post has been my argument against the constant "oh boo hoo, I never followed instruction, police brutality!!!" threads the last few months on ATS