UK's debt? 950% of GDP

reply to post by Vitchilo


To be honest I wouldn't want to live in a country where there were militias / vigilantes roaming the streets. I'd take my chances with the people I elect, rather than an unaccountable grunt with a gun. But thats a different point.

Moving accross the world is easy to say, but is pretty unrealistic. There isn't a country on the planet that hasn't been affected by the recession.

Don't know why you think that immigrants in the UK would make things go down any worse than they already are. You yourself are saying that people in the UK should leave to go to other countries and become immigrants in those countries. So you are not making sense, unless you want British immigrants to make things 'real bad' in other countries they move to.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Sounds pretty absurd doesn't it? There is far too much hype and hysteria flying about and in the media at least there are other agendas that don't have the best interests of joe public.

Not just the media though, look at the petty way the French government has been banging on about the UK, all for their political parties to score some points before an election due early next year.

Originally posted by Twiptwop
All the more reason to end this despicable, thieving, unjust "Union" and give us our England back, free from the controls of the EU and Celts

I'm guessing your referring to both the Union of the UK and the EU? If so...by all means take your "England" back, Scotland wants to be on its own anyways...and to refer to the control of England by the Celts is a bit daft really since...

The Celts were an Indo-European and ethno-linguistically diverse group of tribal societies in Iron Age and Roman-era Europe who spoke Celtic languages.

Don't think they have existed for a wee while now...

And to refer that the EU controls England...well that's true but you lot elect an Englishman to run your England yet its your Englishman who is hanging your country up by the b*lls...i think UKIP would be a good vote for you if you so dearly wanted out of the EU, otherwise prepare for the long-haul cos that fear mongering and propaganda about how the UK wont be able to trade with anyone in Europe ever again if you leave the EU isn't going away quickly!!!!

The EU, the debt, Westminster, the corruption is something my country can do without...it's just unfortunate that you guys are actually stuck with it...

Originally posted by jrmcleod
I'm guessing your referring to both the Union of the UK and the EU? If so...by all means take your "England" back, Scotland wants to be on its own anyways...and to refer to the control of England by the Celts is a bit daft really

Never heard of the West Lothian Question then?

The West Lothian question refers to issues concerning the ability of Members of Parliament from constituencies in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales to vote on matters that only affect people living in England. This has occurred because of the devolution of power from Westminster to the Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies and Scottish Parliament.

And with this little loophole, you celt parasites have managed to wing it so that you get free university education, free prescriptions etc, all off the back of the English taxpayer, whilst we get huge raises in fees for both.

Originally posted by Twiptwop

Originally posted by jrmcleod
I'm guessing your referring to both the Union of the UK and the EU? If so...by all means take your "England" back, Scotland wants to be on its own anyways...and to refer to the control of England by the Celts is a bit daft really

Never heard of the West Lothian Question then?

The West Lothian question refers to issues concerning the ability of Members of Parliament from constituencies in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales to vote on matters that only affect people living in England. This has occurred because of the devolution of power from Westminster to the Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies and Scottish Parliament.

And with this little loophole, you celt parasites have managed to wing it so that you get free university education, free prescriptions etc, all off the back of the English taxpayer, whilst we get huge raises in fees for both.

edit on 19-12-2011 by Twiptwop because: (no reason given)

I don't even know if i should respond to this pathetic argument or not because all to often we hear how Scotland is being carried on the back of England crap. The Scottish people and its economy will certainly continue to prosper, probably even more so, when we are on our own.

“It’s almost certain that Scotland would survive as one nation and have reasonable performance, but whether it would be well-placed to cope with significant shocks like the major financial crisis we saw is another thing.”

Prof Ashcroft also suggests that England could do badly as a result of independence for Scotland, and not just because of a shortfall in oil revenue.

Loss of the North Sea oilfields would mean George Osborne would never be able to reap the benefit of a windfall tax on the North Sea operators like the one introduced in the last Budget.

Most of the UK’s renewable energy resources like sites for wind and wave power stations are in Scotland, so the potential market for exported electricity would be out of Whitehall’s hands.

And there could be less tangible drawbacks like a loss of prestige on the world stage for a shrunken UK.

Prof Ashcroft said: “There are significant unknowns, but it would be wrong for people in England to think: ‘Oh well, we’ll just get rid of the Scots because of the subsidy, then we’ll be better off.

The latest opinion polls mean Mr Cameron may have a harder job convincing English and Welsh voters that they need Scotland, despite analysis that shows that the contribution Scotland makes to the rest of the UK has been underestimated.

Read Here...

To refer to people as parasites clearly shows just how racist you are, and narrow minded.

You should try explaining any of this to the average person in the UK. Most people don't even know what GDP means! These people are so ignorant to what is happening that they have absolutely no plan.

People here are truly ignorant to what is going on, willfully ignorant.

Rest assured I have a plan.
The moment I see the € failing to the point of collapse (we're almost there already) I'm heading out to empty my bank account, then buying up as many supplies as I can get. While everyone else is sitting at home watching the news and unable to comprehend what is obviously coming, I'll be stocking up before the rush starts.

Then we're securing the house and siting it out until we see signs of civil unrest in our area. If that starts, we'll be hiking out of town to an area we've already chosen.

People really should be prepared for this. A collapse like this is unprecedented, and the end of the € could cause a global level of unrest that will affect every major city. If we think the UK riots were bad, just wait until millions of people are fighting for supplies rather than it being a few thousand kids wanting a new phone for nothing!

reply to post by detachedindividual


What i do not understand about these survival plans is that when the SHTF, the system will totally collapse - it will take at best a couple of years to get anything like normality back.

So, my question is this. How can anyone possibly hope to stock up for a couple of years minimum? I am not having a go at your plans. More, i am after advice for myself!

reply to post by detachedindividual


I have to wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. I have tried to drop hints but people either roll their eyes or verbally attack me!

I do worry about them, I cannot prepare for them too. They honestly can't see it coming, and don't think the mess will actually affect them. I get angry, I don't like being mocked (only human) but my sorrow for them forces me to take a deep breath and wait for them to ask questions. I fear they never will.

Problem is, the more people you warn, the more will be banging on your door for your supplies when it happens.

We are so screwed.

Originally posted by jrmcleod

To refer to people as parasites clearly shows just how racist you are, and narrow minded.

par·a·site/ˈparəˌsīt/
Noun:
An organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.
A person who habitually relies on or exploits others and gives nothing in return.
Synonyms:
sponger - hanger-on - sponge

We are the biggest group in this insidious union. We pay more tax than anyone else. Only Scotland gets free university education, or prescriptions, ergo, Scotland = Parasite.

reply to post by Flavian


I have to admit that if it ever got to that point I would be purloining a 50ft Cat and heading out to the deep blue, but to be honest I can not see a collapse happening the way some describe, we, as a nation have been bankrupt and screwed many times before now, and it is in those times we seem to come together rather than fall apart.

Perhaps a crash will force communities to come together again and undo the divides, hatred and resentment that have been created or reinforced over the last 50 years (or 1000 years depending on how you read history) at least that is my hope, however I honestly do not see things slipping that far given the risks that poses to the elite themselves.

In my reading of history more elites die at the hands of their own people than they do at the hands of enemies they wage war against. If push comes to shove I believe that is the direction the elite will head in since it appears to me a safer route for the elite themselves.

reply to post by Flavian


Entire populations without food for a couple of years would be completely devastating, personaly I cant see that happening but if it does then theres no hope anyways. So you wont need to stock up for a couple of years.
If the economy totally collapses then there will be a short period of food shortages and riots which would have to be quickly acted on and measures brought in by the governments to ensure the population don't starve to death and to try and restore some kind of order.
I think its this time period that you need to be prepared for, the time it takes for the gov to establish some form of order, possibly bringing in the army, bringing in supplies etc. How long this takes I have no idea but try and be prepared to hold out for a month or 2.
I'm just purely speculating, I have absolutely no idea how this is going to play out, no one does.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
You should try explaining any of this to the average person in the UK. Most people don't even know what GDP means! These people are so ignorant to what is happening that they have absolutely no plan.

People here are truly ignorant to what is going on, willfully ignorant.

Rest assured I have a plan.
The moment I see the € failing to the point of collapse (we're almost there already) I'm heading out to empty my bank account, then buying up as many supplies as I can get. While everyone else is sitting at home watching the news and unable to comprehend what is obviously coming, I'll be stocking up before the rush starts.

Then we're securing the house and siting it out until we see signs of civil unrest in our area. If that starts, we'll be hiking out of town to an area we've already chosen.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________

If law and order breaks down then the yobs will form a gang, and search out people like you they suspect of hording food, they will come for you , and that will be the end of you and your family.

It might be better joining that gang ?.

edit on 19-12-2011 by isthatright because: making correction

What happened with the Quote thing.

My words are below those lines,

reply to post by Twiptwop


You seem to be pushing the divides that have torn these Isles apart for the last 1000 years.. we as a people on these Isles should come together and not allow the propaganda the space to destroy our ability to stick 2 fingers up at those who try to rule the world.

We are and always have been stronger together.. together the Scots, Irish, Britains, Saxons stood up to the might of Rome and nearly kicked them out of not just these isles but out of Gaul as well, that scared them poopless and since then they have done everything keep these Isles divided,

and I'm sorry to say this but you seem to be playing into their hands.

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys


Thanks for the response. I am basing the "at least a couple years" thing on a total global meltdown (which would have to happen for the UK to be in this predicament). My reasoning for this is that once money is worthless globally, all sorts of nasty stuff will happen. Nations will settle scores while they have the opportunity, etc. On a societal level, society just will not recover quickly from a total breakdown - look how long it is taking to rebuild in Rwanda and to rebuild bridges amongst ethnic groups also, and that is in the current climate where global funds are available. You simply do not trust your neighbour again overnight when you have previously seen him stoving someone's head for a bag of rice!

Personally, i have more of a Thoughsfull outlook on this situation but it always pays to be prepared (Akela would be proud ).

reply to post by Flavian


Which is why I have an eye on a couple of 1990s Prout Quasars (50ft Catamarans) all the things my family and I need to survive along with a bit of space between us and any rampaging loonies. (always handy to know how to cook seagull in case you should get bored of fish )

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by Twiptwop

 

You seem to be pushing the divides that have torn these Isles apart for the last 1000 years.. we as a people on these Isles should come together and not allow the propaganda the space to destroy our ability to stick 2 fingers up at those who try to rule the world.

We are and always have been stronger together.. together the Scots, Irish, Britains, Saxons stood up to the might of Rome and nearly kicked them out of not just these isles but out of Gaul as well, that scared them poopless and since then they have done everything keep these Isles divided,

and I'm sorry to say this but you seem to be playing into their hands.

All lovely and sentimental, but in the real world, we never have come together, not now or thousands of years in the past. As this union has shown, it is pointless to even attempt to work together, and now it's time to break and become individual nations again.

Originally posted by PrinceDreamer

I think you are reading the data wrong, take a look at the graph below the text you quoted, you see whilst all that debt is there, you need to look at the way the debt is broken down, household debt is around 100% of GDP, this is relatively normal for every country in a free capitalist society, if you look into the governments debt, this is less that GDP, this is actually quite good and why the UK retains its AAA rating, i.e. the Government can pay its debts.

Where the issue lies is with the huge debt in the financial market, as you can see it dwarfs the actual UK debt, and most financial debt debt around the world, now this is a terrible situation, but the exposure to this debt is NOT the UK's alone, not by a long way.

You see London is the financial capital of the world, and all of the banks are tied in there including all of the central banks, even the FED, and that debt is not BRITISH debt but global bank debt and they are all tied into it via their UK branches, if it goes pop then every major bank in the world is going to take a massive hit, because they have all exposed themselves to this massive ponzi scheme.

There wont be anywhere to run, because everywhere will be hit, every bank will be at risk of collapse. That debt you point out is a banking debt and they are all in on it, all part of it and all exposed, if London goes teh the banking world collapses and there aint no hiding from it.

1.PrinceDreamer got that right, so everyone should just calm down. Debt at 950% of GDP is NOT UK national debt. UK GDP is $2 trillion, and its sovereign debt is at $1 trillion. That 950% debt belongs to the global banks held in the City of London.

2. Even though through fractional reserves, the City of London will not collapse absolutely, as those loans are based upon collaterals which can be realized, although some form of debts such as CDS or sovereign debts may not be able to realized should default happens.

3. Furthermore, money doesn't disappear into thin air. A significant majority of mankind still holds money, either in banks or at home. When banks collapses, only the banks will be destroyed. You will still have money, guaranteed by the country that issue those funds.

For example, should greece defaults, the banks holding greek sovereign debts will fall as they will not see any interests being returned to balance their books. But already printed Euro dollars are still in others' hands to circulate for growth or to convert it into their own currencies to devalue their own dollar for better export dollars for the sake of economic growth. Greece may have run out of money to pay debts, but they have not run out of resources or brains to tap the wealth of the nation.

Similarly, should the worse situation happens - the whole defaults and no one spends money or farm or mine, then put simply - we will all die anyway, not just banks, to bother.

Thus, calm down. It aint the end yet. UK just gotta let its purse string loosen a bit for growth to happen, and get its manufacturing of hi quality products back to the country, instill pride and productivity to its neglected youths. Time to wake up from the nightmare.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

What i do not understand about these survival plans is that when the SHTF, the system will totally collapse - it will take at best a couple of years to get anything like normality back.

So, my question is this. How can anyone possibly hope to stock up for a couple of years minimum? I am not having a go at your plans. More, i am after advice for myself!

You don't just plan for the short term. The canned goods and survival mentality is only for the short term, 3 - 6 months at most.

We would be doing everything we can during that time to become self-sufficient, making associations with neighbors and building up relationships, sharing produce and rearing animals. We have plenty of space here for that.

It required, we would be leaving the house in our urban area and moving to a smaller village. We have thousands of them no bigger than four or five homes, easy to secure.

All a person can do is be prepared for the likely scenarios. Things would be chaotic and decisions would have to be made that none of us can think of right now. As long as you have food to last for a few months, you at least have time to plan more effectively for the longer term.

And remember, while those thousands of people will be looting supermarkets, the garden centers would be the last things on their minds!

reply to post by woodwardjnr


would they be the ex pats living in warm sunny countries that still claim there winter fuel allowance from the uk govt, the same ex pats the raked it in when the pound was strong against the euro. why the hell should existing tax payers in the uk foot the bill for those who have been living the life of riley for many years in europe . they decided to move out, they took a gamble, they won for a long time, now they may lose. their title explains everything
EX pats