Kim Jong-il Has Died

Originally posted by star in a jar

Originally posted by bruwin
....
So everybody needs to stop speculating. The status qou remains unless we get a ballsy enough president that has finally had enough of the North Korean blackmail and shennigans we've all witnessed over the years. Oh how I wish GW was still around. We'd be turning that place into glass right about now.

Why murder millions of people just because of a particular government?

Agreed, let Karma do its job

or send in seal team 6

Just goes to show, we didn't have to sacrifice any good men /troops to get the last two scrubbed of the list /planet

Originally posted by star in a jar

Why murder millions of people just because of a particular government?

It's not murder...the majority of the North Korean population has been so thouroughly brainwashed that they are the enemy as well...it isn't just the government. I know many Americans like to think the North Koreans hate their dictator and would welcome us with open arms if their government fell. I for one believe nothing is farther from the truth.

Kim Jong Il's death is suspicious perhaps the Generals and the party elite felt he was getting soft.No unified Korea,Japan is still here and The US military has them checkmated.They felt that it was time to get the kid into power.

reply to post by bruwin
Your right and we must look at how the North Koreans are,in the same way that the Japanese were and how they praised and idolized their Emperor and died for him in their millions during WW-2...

Any thoughts otherwise,like about the North Korean people welcoming the USA military,is really nothing more than the USA brainwashing its own people to adhere and believe in the supposed righteousness and can do no wrong additude of its own military machine...

All this endless sabre rattling and war ready mentality across the world will do nothing but destroy us as a species and bring about the dawn of the extinction of the human race when all is said and done...

All of the horror and death that was filmed during WW-1 and WW-2 has done more or less nothing to stop peoples animalistic desire to instill fear,to hate and to kill eachother off ...

Hmm,im just wondering if there is any proof whatsoever to prove that this is true,that Kim Jong-il is actually dead...?

Is there any North Koreans on ATS that can provide proof that this man is dead?

There has been a few tyrants that have supposedly "died" or been "killed" during this year and i don't believe most of the reports.

So why are we meant to believe that this is true?

Don't get me wrong,he may very well be dead,i just don't have any information that confirms that report for me.I'll have a good look around though.

Cheers

reply to post by BillyBoBBizWorth

So why are we meant to believe that this is true?

Because not everything is a conspiracy perhaps?

Sorry to tell you this but people die. It's a fact of life.

Oh, and if you must have proof then here it is: Sky News article: Son Visits Kim Jong-il's Body Lying In State. Although I'm sure people will reject it still. *Sigh*

Originally posted by BillyBoBBizWorth
Hmm,im just wondering if there is any proof whatsoever to prove that this is true,that Kim Jong-il is actually dead...?

CNN had a picture of him lying in state all nice and snuggled up with a red blanket over him.

Because not everything is a conspiracy perhaps? Sorry to tell you this but people die. It's a fact of life.

Yes,Rising Against,im quite aware of that,thanks for pointing out the obvious.I was asking a legit question and thanks for replying and also thanks for the link you provided.

Thats all i wanted to see,it seems pretty legit that hes dead.

For now,anyways...

CNN had a picture of him lying in state all nice and snuggled up with a red blanket over him.

Also thanks for your reply as well Bruwin.

Cheers

reply to post by BillyBoBBizWorth


Ok, I apologize for being a bit sarcastic there, It was a little bit unwarranted really. It's just sometimes I get the impression that some members of this forum can't ever accept the fact that people can die, especially those in power or in the public eye. It's just impossible for people to comprehend for some reason.

Sure conspiracies are real, we know that.. but there's not a conspiracy in literally everything. That's just silly. People die, that's a fact of life. Anyway, that's the reasoning behind my reaction to your post.

Kim Jong-Il has gone and as of right now we have no reason to believe otherwise. We've even seen his body after all and I'm pretty sure his son who was tearfully looking in at him wasn't acting like some will probably claim he was..

reply to post by Rising Against


No worries,i understand exactly where your coming from Rising Against,ive seen that around the forums myself,i dont even bother to reply when people think and talk like that anymore,especially when youve been shown some proof/evidence.

I agree,at the moment and for now,hes as dead as dead can be,it will probably stay that way as well.

Once again,thanks for your replies,your link and your apology as well Rising Against,i appreciate it.

Cheers

reply to post by BillyBoBBizWorth

Originally posted by BillyBoBBizWorth
Is there any North Koreans on ATS that can provide proof that this man is dead?

No... there are no North Koreans on ATS.

There may be the occasional North Korean that looks at ATS, but it would be in an official government capacity, and not with any real freedom to post their thoughts.

99% of North Koreans don't have ready access to the internet. There may be a few of the elite class that do have internet access, but even then their access would be strictly monitored and controlled, and I very much doubt they would be allowed to view alternative news sources such as ATS. Almost nothing gets in or out of North Korea that the powers that be don't know about, other than the occasional escapee and a few photos or videos that tourists or journalists manage to smuggle out.

Even then, any visitors to the country are closely monitored and only allowed to go to areas that are sanitised for the world to see. North Korea is literally a different world to what the rest of the world is like, essentially stuck in a time capsule from the 50's-60's. We really don't know much about the interior of North Korea (about 99% of North Korea is completely off limits to the outside world), it has been a closed book to the rest of the world for more than half a century.

They follow the ideology of "Juche Idea", a concept created by Kim Il Sung (the eternal president), that holds the concept of separatism and complete global independence in absolute esteem. Except for a brief period in the 50's and 60's the idea has been untenable, with constant outside aid, yet they still push the idea with an amazing single-mindedness.

To put this in perspective somewhat, here is a night time satellite image of the region that shows how underdeveloped the country is. You can see the lights of population in South Korea, China and Japan compared to the almost complete darkness (lack of electricity) in North Korea.


The people have been raised from birth to believe in the Juche Idea, and they truly love and respect the almost deistic status of the Kim dynasty, so the grief you are seeing is most likely very real to them, they have literally lost the father of their people; their spiritual and political leader. There may be those who think differently, but they would be in regions that no footage will ever make it out of, and they would never voice their opinions, on fear of death.

The DPRK is truly a different world than almost anything the rest of us can conceive of.

Cheers

reply to post by curious7


Sorry, but evidently regardless of religious disposition, if somebody has the capacity to murder then just do. By denying religion you go against what the western world has accomplished. i.e; free expression of beliefs.

reply to post by Rising Against
Perhaps everything is a conspiracy and we are all unknowingly living a massive lie...

Coincidence or did someone not want this deal to be finalized?


Published 13:09 20.12.11

U.S. official: North Korea leader died just as deal was struck to halt nuclear program

Senior U.S. official says Obama administration was about to secure deal to transfer food aid to North Korea in return of the suspension of the country's controversial uranium enrichment program.

The United States was about to announce a deal that would put a stop to North Korea's uranium enrichment program when it was announced that the country's leader, Kim Jong Il, had died, a senior U.S. official told CBS on Tuesday.

The Obama administration, according to the official, was due to announce that the U.S. would make a large donation of food aid to North Korea, and in turn North Korea was to announce the suspension of its controversial uranium enrichment program.

www.haaretz.com...

I don't understand why people might think that his death is a lie.

Even if it were, what purpose would that serve? He would be dead to the outside world, and to his people. If he were not physically dead, he may as well be for all the freedom, respect, recognition or protections he'd get in his own country. The idea that this man would have faked his own death is nonsensical in my opinion.

Also, while I'm here, I saw someone speaking on BBC or RT last night (I can't remember which, too tired) and they were suggesting that we'll probably see some militaristic response in NK after KJI funeral.
The guy talking said that they'd all be effectively on hold until then, but that he believes there will be military leaders planning a coup during this time.

I didn't get everything he said, but he was under the impression that many who have worked alongside KJI will not support his son and will fear the fact that he has had an outside education. They'll see him as being weak and inexperienced, and they'll want to remove him.

I'm not so sure that's the case. But it does seem that there have been attempts like this in every transition of power there previously. From what I've read, KJI himself had to execute several military and party staff after an attempt when he took power, and they knew he was coming for 20 years. This guy has only been around for 2 years, and spent time outside of NK. I'm not so sure the party or military are gonna like him one little bit.

I wonder how the Japanese and South Koreans feel about this 28 year old so called "great successor" standing at their doorsteps with 1,106,000 active and 8,200,000 reserved and ready troops? The worlds most militarized nation,with the largest combined army in the world > en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by BillyBoBBizWorth
Is there any North Koreans on ATS that can provide proof that this man is dead?

Funniest thing I've read today!

reply to post by EvolEric


And what exactly makes this alternative rather than mainstream news?

Originally posted by TheFlash
reply to post by EvolEric

 

And what exactly makes this alternative rather than mainstream news?

Most of the crap on ATS is just mainstream news... ATS is just a discussion forum and political trolling forum it seems at the moment.

There are only three possible results two are bad:
Things stay the same
Things get worse
Things get better

I'll bet on "worse"