The long-term dilemma of a Ron Paul presidency

Originally posted by CaDreamer
one thing is for certain the president doesnt need the help of any other branches of the government to end all American wars conflicts and skirmishes. he alone has the power to bring every single soldier home and close all foreign bases.

that alone is a huge amount of leverage to get congress to do as he wants em to do. they are all a bunch of blood thirsty war pigs so they will do anything to keep their bases open to exploit the world.

Are you suggesting that Ron Paul would "sell out" to the "congressional pigs"? Are you suggesting that he would use the foreign bases as leverage? If you are, then shame on you....AND if RP believes that, then triple-dog shame on him.

His stance on closing bases (worldwide) should be unconditional. Otherwise, it's the same "lip-service" that the "Communist, Marxist, Socialist, Kenyan" Obama has proclaimed for 4+ years. If Obama hasn't brought this idea to fruition, then what in the world makes you think Ron Paul can?

Seriously, what?

If, as you allude to, RP plays a game of "tit for tat", then he is abusing his powers. PERIOD!!!

If RP truly wants to bring the troops home, then that should be his FIRST act as POTUS (on day one of his inauguration)...If he doesn't, then LOL at you and ALL RP supporters...that makes him a liar and no better than Obama.

For all that is holy and righteous in the world, I pray that RP wins the 2012 election....why? so the RP worshipers will get a taste of reality...and, perhaps eat some humble pie while they STFU.

Sorry to "single out" your post, but it had to be laid upon someone...might as well be you.

Ron Paul IS NOT a savior....in the least sense of the word....learn to deal with that fact, then decide if you want a timid, ideological, wannabe serving your already weakening country. Go ahead...roll the dice...we all love Vegas odds (you know...the odds that are incredibly stacked against us)...you wanna make that nut-bet? I'll lay down gold against your filthy greenbacks....It's a sucker bet...go ahead, take it...I triple-dog dare you!

What would it take? 1:2 odds? How about 1:10? No, How about I lay down 10,000 for every dollar of confidence you have? How about now? How confident are you in the Gynocologist, Ron Paul?

RP's policy is dead in the water....before it ever got off the ground....AND, it's not just him, it's the ENTIRE Republican party...the Democrats dealt with this obstructionist BS for 3+ years now...don't think for a second that the Dems don't already have the same "move" in their "play-book". Here's a golden nugget of truth: The "token" Republican will do no better....it's already been decided!!! Bank that factual gold!!! It's 24K!!!

It's the best damn bet in town! Damn sure better than any sucker-bet, which boasts that RP will bring about any meaningful change.

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by CaDreamer
Ron Paul is the "change" we have all been hoping for...

... he will also make many friends, powerful friends. the biggest most wonderful tool a president has is being an example to emulate. JFK was doing something right, and was able to rally America to his causes. Dr. Paul has these same super powers.

Hope

Change

I said the same thing about Obama 4 years ago.

I never went along with the whole Change Thing - - its unrealistic. I felt Obama was intelligent and methodical. Which I still feel he is. I don't need a grand stander.

Ron Paul is just another white southern Christian and very old. I honestly do not believe he could take the pressure of being president. Every newly elected president looks like they've aged 100 years after they come out of that first official briefing. There is obviously stuff unknown - - until you are in that position.

I just can't do it.

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by CaDreamer
one thing is for certain the president doesnt need the help of any other branches of the government to end all American wars conflicts and skirmishes. he alone has the power to bring every single soldier home and close all foreign bases.

that alone is a huge amount of leverage to get congress to do as he wants em to do. they are all a bunch of blood thirsty war pigs so they will do anything to keep their bases open to exploit the world.

Are you suggesting that Ron Paul would "sell out" to the "congressional pigs"? Are you suggesting that he would use the foreign bases as leverage? If you are, then shame on you....AND if RP believes that, then triple-dog shame on him.

His stance on closing bases (worldwide) should be unconditional. Otherwise, it's the same "lip-service" that the "Communist, Marxist, Socialist, Kenyan"

Obama has proclaimed for 4+ years. If Obama hasn't brought this idea to fruition, then what in the world makes you think Ron Paul can?

Seriously, what?

If, as you allude to, RP plays a game of "tit for tat", then he is abusing his powers. PERIOD!!!

If RP truly wants to bring the troops home, then that should be his FIRST act as POTUS (on day one of his inauguration)...If he doesn't, then LOL at you and ALL RP supporters...that makes him a liar and no better than Obama.

For all that is holy and righteous in the world, I pray that RP wins the 2012 election....why? so the RP worshipers will get a taste of reality...and, perhaps eat some humble pie while they STFU.

Sorry to "single out" your post, but it had to be laid upon someone...might as well be you.

Ron Paul IS NOT a savior....in the least sense of the word....learn to deal with that fact, then decide if you want a timid, ideological, wannabe serving your already weakening country. Go ahead...roll the dice...we all love Vegas odds (you know...the odds that are incredibly stacked against us)...you wanna make that nut-bet? I'll lay down gold against your filthy greenbacks....It's a sucker bet...go ahead, take it...I triple-dog dare you!

What would it take? 1:2 odds? How about 1:10? No, How about I lay down 10,000 for every dollar of confidence you have? How about now? How confident are you in the Gynocologist, Ron Paul?

RP's policy is dead in the water....before it ever got off the ground....AND, it's not just him, it's the ENTIRE Republican party...the Democrats dealt with this obstructionist BS for 3+ years now...don't think for a second that the Dems don't already have the same "move" in their "play-book". Here's a golden nugget of truth: The "token" Republican will do no better....it's already been decided!!! Bank that factual gold!!! It's 24K!!!

It's the best damn bet in town! Damn sure better than any sucker-bet, which boasts that RP will bring about any meaningful change.

edit on 17-12-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)

no i wasnt saying that he would sell out to congress, there are 190 foreign bases, it use them as leverage to get his policies passed would be well, the politic thing to do. delaying closing a base here and there to get the pigs in congress to sign certain legislation and then later down the road closing the bases anyhow is not caving, it is strategic use of the tools he has at his disposal to get his agenda to proceed, with hostiles in congress...duh

it isn't illegal and it isn't wrong, it may be deceptive but he would have NO OTHER CHOICE unless he wishes to sit and be completely ineffective because congress blocks his every effort. as is the case with our current president, unable to accomplish most of his agenda due to obstructionism. if our current president had the leverage to push his agenda, he would be insane not to use it.
savior is by definition someone that saves a group of people from certain doom... yes he is the ticket to getting away from this corrupt system, but he would still have to operate within that system so he would in essence have to play by their rules for at least some length of time.
out of curiosity who would you cote into office to fix this system since it is clear that you do not believe in Dr Paul.

i would rather have that gynecologist than any of the "businessmen or lawyers" currently running.
to assume he is going to win the day in a fight with congress by using truth justice and apple pie is naive and unrealistic.

Hopefully now the majority of people has woken-up to the fact that the entire political system is 'fixed'. Doesn't matter what party they're from, they all answer to the same Masters. TPTB control MSM and the entire political process. It should be clear to everyone that They are going to extraordinary lengths to marginalize Ron Paul. They are proving over and over again that they are not willing to take the risk that he is 'unelectable' or that The People will choose one of their chosen candidates. Instead, they are using emabrassingly obvious ploys to keep Ron Paul's campaign buried.

If Dr. Paul is considered a 'nut-case', why are they so obviously afraid of him? Why does MSM repeatedly risk impuning their very credibility by pulling the stunts they have? Is a Ron Paul presidency THAT threatening to them? To me, that alone is sufficient reason to elect Dr. Paul. If the Establishment is that opposed than the very best way we can stick it to the System is to put Ron Paul in the White House.

The Sad thing is, Ron Paul would be President, Not King, nor would we want a king.

If he stands by his word, and adheres to the constitution, very little will actually get done, but not because of him, it will be because of the people in congress and the senate, on both sides, disliking the lose of power and money they have had for so many years. They will do all they can to block any proposal he wants. They want him to fail.

The only way around this is to get rid of 90% of both congress and the Senate, and to put people in office, who stands for the constitution like Dr. Paul.

They don't have to be like minded in everything (nor would we want them to), but they have to know and adhere to the constitution.

Outside of that, I see nothing but a virtual "bloodbath" from Republicans, Democrats, the Media, and Corporations, if not a literal bloodbath.


This is Sad, but true. Don't keep it from trying though, I hope I am wrong.

Vote Ron Paul 2012

First off, look at the differences in Paul's campaign vs Obama's in '08. Obama made promises without any kind of history to back up what he was telling us he would do. Obama is a colonialist and looks at the U.S. as an empire. When he said fundamentally change the United States, he meant it. Paul, on the other hand, has voted the same way for 30 years. The one thing I tell everyone before they get behind a candidate, look at what that person has done the last 15, 10, 5 years ago. Listen to what is said during campaign 15% of the time. Second off, I think a Ron Paul presidency would be slow go for at least 2 years. Without a Congress that votes and legislates by the constitution, the best we can hope for is Dr. Paul vetoing a lot of unconstitutional bills. It will be up to the American people in 2014 to put in a Congress that will abide by the constitution. That will be his biggest challenge to relay to the people but thats what he will do. He will go to the American people instead of relying on executive orders to get what he wants. Once there is law abiding Congress, you will see the next president having to follow suit. If ,we the people, do not stay on top of what is going on in Washington, then you will see the U.S. start to decline again in about 20 years after Ron Paul would leave office.

reply to post by dezertdog

Hopefully Rand Paul would step up and continue his fathers legacy.

LoL.

No. That won't happen.

If Ron Paul even wins a couple of states that would be a revolution in republican history. He won't win the nomination. However, he won't be able to play nice with those in congress. If he becomes president he could get sucked into power and use the constitution to do even worse things than Obama because, "They aren't listening to me." Type of stuff. Ron Paul will have 100% of the media attacking him, instead of just Fox News like Obama. Congress will be even more divided with 0% approval from the Public. Ron Paul will automatically make us surrender and pull out of destabilizing countries (if he can even get that done). Believe me people, Ron Paul isn't really that good for our country. Just like how Obama isn't that good for our country, and I believe that Ron Paul is even more radical than Obama is.

This is not saying that Ron Paul is a great man with great ideas, but then again, so was Obama.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I want you to understand one very, very important point. Forget Ron Paul for the moment. This country is literally doomed. The entire system is going to collapse. It's not an opinion it is a mathematical certainty. And when it does the repercussions are going to be beyond comprehension. This has happened because people have been successfully manipulated and lied to for decades. The end game is in-sight.

The only thing we can hope for at this point is that we can get someone into the White House that can wake people up and hopefully slow this out-of-control train down. No, Ron Paul as President cannot single-handedly fix everything. But The Machine is bent on destroying us and the only option is to throw a spanner into the works and disrupt Their agenda. Hopefully, that will give others the opportunity and cajones to get back behind the Constitution.

If for one second you believe ANY of the 'establishment candidates' are going to do anything but continue TPTB's agenda at full-speed you are sadly, sadly deluded. We can only hope others have opened their eyes by November.

Sorry, but i dont see Ron Paul being the 'answer'. The damage has already been done. Things are toooo far out of control and there are TOO MANY problems that need to be fixed, for Mr Paul to make a difference.

I wonder, if Ron Paul is ELECTED, by the people...and he is the 'good guy', that many of you believe he is....how is he going to stand up, to the 'elite'? Let's imagine, Ron Paul wins the presidency....what will he do, if another 'terrorist attack' happens; but this time.......BIGGER than 9-11? Will he suspend the constitution and call in Martial Law? Would the Patriot Act go into full effect?

Also, how do you KNOW he's not a wolf in sheep's clothing??? Sure, he SAYS all the right things....but half of the things he says, most of you have NO IDEA what he's talking about. These people have a way of WORDING! You THINK they're in favor of you...but in reality, they're only HELPING THEMSELVES and their buddies.

Ron Paul could be like the DMV. You BELIEVE you need a driver's license because you do not KNOW you have the 'right to travel'. DMV is a TRAP! Be careful that Ron Paul isn't a TRAP, as well!!!

I also find it a wee bit 'strange' that no "allegations" have come out, regarding Mr Paul. Then again, Mr Paul would be the PERFECT scapegoat!

reply to post by nuttin4U


Thats what I was talking about... You can't just go on what people say, they will sell you whatever you want to hear to get elected. You have to look at what they stood for. Ron Paul has 30 years in Congress to back up what he has said. He doesn't flip flop on issues.

He may not flip flop on issues but that doesn't mean TPTB will listen to him. Presidents are a figure head and this country needs a President who will work with them, not bring them down. Ron Paul will either be assassinated by the CIA like some believe Kennedy was, or made so weak by the establishment that he can't get anything done and will be seen as a liberal left libertarian by the time his one term is up. Much like how some people view Obama as a center right republican now.

TPTB hate Ron Paul now, what makes you think he can win so much?

Originally posted by tw0330
The only way around this is to get rid of 90% of both congress and the Senate, and to put people in office, who stands for the constitution like Dr. Paul.

There ya go.

Start at the bottom first. Nothing will change without the foundation to support it.

"Long-term" and "Ron Paul" in the same sentence just doesn't sound right.

The guy is 76 years old, and as of late he is showing it.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
He may not flip flop on issues but that doesn't mean TPTB will listen to him. Presidents are a figure head and this country needs a President who will work with them, not bring them down.

TPTB do not need to listen to him, for his ideas to be successful; only the People need listen. He would be in a position to release information about the system that the people need to hear from a reputable source (aka POTUS). The people need to be told on a mass level the amount of Fascism that happens behind the scenes. The people need to know many things. The media will be against him but his truth shall be in his words, and the media will lose.

Once the people know these things, the masses will either impeach the corrupt politicians or remove them from their position by other political forces.

Ron Paul may be assassinated for the things he could say, but that would be a huge mistake on TPTB's part. When someone dies, the public takes the high road and points out their good qualities. Michael Jackson was repeatedly accused of ill things, yet no one talks about those anymore. If Ron Paul dies for the things he is saying, those ideas will amplify 1000 fold. Long live Ron Paul, and may he bring us 8 years worth of steps in the right direction; that direction is freedom.

There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." - Mario Savio

Originally posted by Annee

Ron Paul is just another white southern Christian and very old.

Many Presidents were Christian.

Your "old" statement is questionable.

Maybe America should have impeached this President,because he needed a wheelchair.

Anybody saying Ron can't serve as President from the age 77 needs to look at Nelson Mandela and his presidency.

Ron gets in 15 miles of bike riding nearly everyday, try to get Gingrich to do that or outlive Ron, Carseller, that is your guy...isn't it?




To the OP: It is good to be cautious but you can't predict the future. Let's get Ron in the oval office, kick out the incumbents and do whatever we can to make his job easier as president. When his four years is over and has done a good job, it guarantees 8 years of Rand Paul. Don't worry too much about the later...worry about the now.

reply to post by derst1988


Yeah because people listening to Obama worked out so much. I even heard Obama saying that people shouldn't worry about what politicians in office are doing because they have their own lives to live???

Truth is people either get corrupted by the power or get silenced by TPTB. That's the way the world works today unfortunately. I still stand by my position that Ron Paul is the republican party's Barack Obama.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by derst1988

 

I still stand by my position that Ron Paul is the republican party's Barack Obama.

And that insinuation is backed by what information?

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
If Ron Paul even wins a couple of states that would be a revolution in republican history. He won't win the nomination. However, he won't be able to play nice with those in congress. If he becomes president he could get sucked into power and use the constitution to do even worse things than Obama because, "They aren't listening to me." Type of stuff. Ron Paul will have 100% of the media attacking him, instead of just Fox News like Obama. Congress will be even more divided with 0% approval from the Public. Ron Paul will automatically make us surrender and pull out of destabilizing countries (if he can even get that done). Believe me people, Ron Paul isn't really that good for our country. Just like how Obama isn't that good for our country, and I believe that Ron Paul is even more radical than Obama is.

This is not saying that Ron Paul is a great man with great ideas, but then again, so was Obama.

See this quote about a few posts above yours.